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2% harman? from caapi roots remains amorphous freebase or goo as hcl

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This was done to test the viability of growing caapi in a hydroponic setup for the specific purpose of using the roots rather than the stem material. I decided to try a kratky setup kinda like I have already rather adding airstone since such a pain to extract this.

Removed 70g fresh caapi roots from a semi-hydroponic setup. After done it ended up being around 8.5g dried so rounded up to 10g making it around 2% yield. After a couple of A/B and different solvents like dry ethanol and isopropanol yielded approximately 200mg of the cloudy brown amorphous precipitate. I attempted to make it hcl via mansake with zero success and also tried precipitating via citric water but it didn't yield the red crystals Ive gotten from caapi stem tea. The color of the acid pulls was originally that blue you get from harmine.

The last photo is the first precipitate after filtering and reducing the vinegar pulls from the roots to 200ml. Added lye and leads to this brown cloudy precipitate.
First photo is after another round of A/B remains a cloudy brown precipitate even after more careful filtering before pH alkaline.
2-3 shows the color of the precipitate when acidic. it is a dark blue color which I had in my other harmala thread. The same brown precipitate I've had from caapi stem.
4-5 shows the nice dark blue color of the acidic alkaloid in isopropanol 99 a very dark blue VERY nice color.
6 is an image from paper showing yields of caapi roots being higher than stem and leaf.
7-8-9 is attempt at making hcl crystals from ethanol and 20% hcl it is VERY hydroscopic and turns to a goo once scraped.
 

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The caapi roots I used... also added some portion that was rotted since gonna process it chemically.
The color of the caapi roots under 365nm light
The first vacuum filtration of the brown precipitate that forms it it a thick brown goo/tar.
 

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Nice work! Unless I'm missing something, none of those analyses you attached appears to indicate presence of harman so it leads me to wonder whether and /or why you chose to include that in the thread title.

Interesting that one of the analyses found 6-MeO-T in the roots. I'd wager that the HCl of that would be highly hygroscopic, too.
 
The final hcl goo even after trying to recrystallize a few times. MAY try another salting using oxalic acid.
 

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Nice work! Unless I'm missing something, none of those analyses you attached appears to indicate presence of harman so it leads me to wonder whether and /or why you chose to include that in the thread title.

Interesting that one of the analyses found 6-MeO-T in the roots. I'd wager that the HCl of that would be highly hygroscopic, too.
Yea it is likely harmine based on the paper but I think harman due to past extraction having the exact same properties and color...
Thanks for pointing that out since I post and forget to take notes some times... I'm gonna try to sublimate the freebase and if it works at around 120-130C it'll show its harman... if not maybe harmol since that is next idea...

Unless for some reason harmine forms this goo?
 
Somehow reminiscent of an octopus' eye… 😂

How's the humidity there at the moment?
Not crazy high but gonna try a different salt after I test to see if hexane forms crystals.

I'll probably test if it activates dmt next free day I have. take wait 10-15min and take like 10mg dmt.
 
MONOAMINE OXIDASE INHIBITORS IN
AMAZONIAN HALLUCINOGENIC PLANTS:
ETHNOBOTANICAL, PHYTOCHEMICAL, AND PHARMACOLOGICAL
INVESTIGATIONS
By
DENNIS JON MCKENNA

open.library.ubc.ca/media/download/pdf/831/1.0096656/1

Based on this chart whichever it is likely weaker than harmine and harmaline... but stronger than THH so that is the only positive. IDK may be harmine in the end but acting different.
 

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Not crazy high but gonna try a different salt after I test to see if hexane forms crystals.

I'll probably test if it activates dmt next free day I have. take wait 10-15min and take like 10mg dmt.
MONOAMINE OXIDASE INHIBITORS IN
AMAZONIAN HALLUCINOGENIC PLANTS:
ETHNOBOTANICAL, PHYTOCHEMICAL, AND PHARMACOLOGICAL
INVESTIGATIONS
By
DENNIS JON MCKENNA

open.library.ubc.ca/media/download/pdf/831/1.0096656/1

Based on this chart whichever it is likely weaker than harmine and harmaline... but stronger than THH so that is the only positive. IDK may be harmine in the end but acting different.
If it's harman, I suspect it would reduce the effects of a psychedelic, at least if my experience with (harman/harmalan rich) sea buckthorn and mushrooms is anything to go by. Harman has affinity for benzodiazepine sites in the GABA receptors, iirc, which would explain the dulling effect I experienced.

Ofc, the fluorescence I was using for putative β-carboline identification in the sea buckthorn possibly could also be explained by caffeic acid, so if anyone has an example photo of a caffeate solution's fluorescence that would be rather helpful.
 
So here is the freebase after hexane used at 10ml and slight heating. Decanted the hexane. It is now a completely loose and solid powder which before was slightly sticky after the isopropanol and ethanol washes.

The hexane fraction has left a transparent goo that smells like plastic but not floral. Small dots or powder also came from the hexane fraction.

The freebase didn’t dissolve in heated hexane so idk. Idk if I should try to find melting point as freebase or hcl. Sublimation of harman was for hcl.

May end up keeping it as such and test later
 

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