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3 key San Pedro ISO/Ethanol extraction key points to optimize?

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orbitspace

Rising Star
Hello I have 3 basic questions/key points to optimize pertaining to San Pedro powder full spectrum ISO/Ethanol extraction. This is for medical purposes pertaining to topical ointments as an anti-bacterial, anti-viral, anti-microbial, anti-inflammatory + more anti's :D. That is my intention with this process of extraction.

1. "time to soak?"
2. "heat? max/min value?"
3. "proof of alcohol"

I would like to hear experiences and figure out the best time to soak (minimal effective time) without wasting time. I suspect a few hours is the same as 72 but I have some superstitions about getting "all the alkaloids I want out" at 72 hours.

I have a theory 35C the melting point of certain alkaloids in cactuses is good, and won't degrade any alkaloids I want.

The best proof of alcohol? I have found 75% to be best and it sounds like a consensus from the forums. It pulls out the most, up to 20g with 20-25% water. Making the water acidic is good with vinegar I suspect.

I have seen yields of 10-20g full spectrum extract from San Pedro powder which is very good topically at helping pain/inflammation like cannabis topicals. I find that yields increase with the 75% alcohol, heat I can't tell but suspect less time but have been trying to see what a minimum time would be without too much wasted experiments. I guess testing the fraction at every 8 hours seems key to figuring that out and seeing how well it helps pain topically.

Also process is key, I have found minimal coverage of ISO/Ethanol with only an inch above stirring constantly on a heat pad, then after taking the stuff and pulling through a Buchner filter with another doubling of ISO/Ethanol can get 100g with 750ml only which is a big savings of the Ethanol which is never cheap. Something that I haven't seen simplified as the most efficient and clean approach.

I wonder about pectinase and if it would help speed up the process, anyone have definitive theory/experience in that usage? (I have tried the pickling lime but it seems to actually make it come out goopy and have a low yield).

This is both for getting experienced members to gather knowledge together about optimizing this process for anyone to have ointments that help them with pain and suffering.

Thank you!!!
orbit.
 
Hello and welcome!

Do you have any more information about the topical use of San Pedro extracts, some references perhaps?

Your process sounds fairly good as it is, many extractions of natural products use ethanol or other lower alcohols at 70% concentration. The degree of heating depends on the stability of the target compounds, but most of the compounds of interest in cactus powder will be stable enough at the temperature of boiling alcohol.

Just for absolute clarity, by "ISO/ethanol", you do meean isopropanol or ethanol, don't you?

The answers to your questions about pectinase and pickling lime also depend on the intended therapeutic action of your final product, and which compounds might be responsible for that action. For instance, if it were the mucilaginous polysaccharides that were responsible for antiviral properties (which is entirely possible) it might be undesirable to degrade them too excessively.

The use of pickling lime would tend to be targeting the alkaloidal components - although it would hold back the phenolic alkaloids, several of which are likely to have antibacterial properties.


If you get the chance to use a nice, slimy cactus brew - just cactus and water, maybe a small dash of lime juice - as a body rub, well, IME it feels particularly healthful. I'd be very interested to hear more about your topical usage of San Pedro and how you may have formulated ointments, salves, lotions and what have you.

And thank you for starting a topic that has been on my radar for a good while.
df0
 
Based off of research such as this on opuntia and Echinopsis pachanoi, plus assuming they are similar too. Combined with the accounts of traditional medicine in Peru using San Pedro for such things, this sounds like a major thing that very few have realized what this means when reading the research (which you need deepdyve access or some way to search/read the full papers, it's just full of stuff they cannot profit off of so it's just talked about, science is so slow).

A cactus-derived toxin-like cystine knot Peptide with selective antimicrobial activity - PubMed
Plant antimicrobial peptides: structures, functions, and applications (shows how the above can be used)
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Chemical composition and antibacterial activity of Opuntia ficus-indica f. inermis (cactus pear) flowers - PubMed

Opuntia ficus-indica f. inermis (cactus pear) flowers have wide application in folk medicine. However, there are few reports focusing on their biological activity and were no reports on their chemical composition. The nutrient composition and hexane extracts of Opuntia flowers at 4 flowering...
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Antioxidant and Antimicrobial Properties of Cactus Pear (Opuntia) Seed Oils

Seed oils from two Mexican varieties of cactus pear (green:<i> Opuntia albicarpa </i>and red:<i> Opuntia ficus indica</i>) were extracted with different solvents (hexane, ethanol, and ethyl acetate) to evaluate their antioxidant activity. The seed oil with higher antioxidant activity was...
www.hindawi.com www.hindawi.com
www.mdpi.com

Phytochemical Content, Antioxidant, Alpha-Glucosidase Inhibitory and Antibacterial Activities of Spineless Cactus Pear Cultivars

Variation in cultivars can influence plant biological activities. This study aimed to identify superior cultivars while determining the variability in the phytochemical content, antioxidant, alpha-glucosidase inhibitory and antibacterial activities of cladode extracts from selected spineless...
www.mdpi.com www.mdpi.com

It actually sounds so amazing:

"Naturally occurring cystine knot peptides show a wide range of biological activity, and as they have inherent stability they represent potential scaffolds for peptide-based drug design and biomolecular engineering. Here we report the discovery, sequencing, chemical synthesis, three-dimensional solution structure determination and bioactivity of the first cystine knot peptide from Cactaceae (cactus) family: Ep-AMP1 from Echinopsis pachanoi. The structure of Ep-AMP1 (35 amino acids) conforms to that of the inhibitor cystine knot (or knottin) family but represents a novel diverse sequence; its activity was more than 500 times higher against bacterial than against eukaryotic cells. Rapid bactericidal action and liposome leakage implicate membrane permeabilisation as the mechanism of action. Sequence homology places Ec-AMP1 in the plant C6-type of antimicrobial peptides, but the three dimensional structure is highly similar to that of a spider neurotoxin."

Knottin-type peptides:

"Plant knottins, which were first discovered 20 years ago and contain approximately 30 amino acids, are a superfamily that includes inhibitors of the α-amylase, carboxypeptidase, and trypsin families, as well as cyclic peptides (Le Nguyen et al. 1990). Generally, knottin-type peptides are the smallest in size among plant AMPs. They can bind to a variety of molecular targets and have multiple biological functions, such as promoting resistance to biotic and abiotic stresses, stimulating root growth, acting as signaling molecules, and enhancing symbiotic interactions. They also possess antimicrobial activity against bacteria, fungi, and viruses and even show cytotoxic, insecticidal, and anti-HIV activities (Aboye et al. 2015; Hwang et al. 2010a, b; Pallaghy et al. 1994). The typical structure of knottins involves conserved disulfide bonds between multiple cysteine pairs, forming a cystine knot (Fig. 2d). The cystine motifs of plant knottins differ within different subfamilies. In different organisms, some functionally unrelated protein families have similar knottin structures. In plants, proteins such as defensins and protease inhibitors also have cystine motifs similar to those in knottin-type peptides (Gelly et al. 2004). Although plant defensins also contain a cystine-knotting motif, they differ from knottin-like peptides in their cysteine spacing (Tam et al. 2015)."

And Peptides are amazing:
In addition, with the increasing resistance of various pathogenic bacteria to common antibiotics, there are some plant AMPs that continue to be beneficial in the treatment of various fatal human diseases. Therefore, the application of AMPs in the treatment of diseases in the medical field is receiving increasing attention.

Sources of antimicrobial peptides from the antimicrobial peptide database (http://aps.unmc.edu/AP/)

Classification of plant AMPs

The composition of plant AMPs is very complex. A single plant species can contain a variety of AMPs (Noonan et al. 2017). Most plant AMPs are positively charged at physiological pH with molecular weights ranging from 2–10 kDa. AMPs contain 4–12 cysteine residues forming disulfide bonds, which can make them exceptionally stable to chemical, thermal and enzymatic degradation by stabilizing their tertiary and quaternary structures (Faull et al. 2020; Khoo et al. 2011; Sohail et al. 2020; Tam et al. 2015). The smallest known AMP comprising seven amino acids (Lys-Val-Phe-Leu-Gly-Leu-Lys) was isolated from Jatropha curcas (Xiao et al. 2011). Plant AMPs have diverse functions, structures, and expression patterns, as well as specific targets, which make their classification more complex and difficult. Plant AMPs can be classified into cationic peptides and anionic peptides according to their charge (Hammami et al. 2009; Prabhu et al. 2014). However, the classifications of plant AMPs are usually based on their sequence similarity, presence of cysteine motifs, and tertiary structures (Hammami et al. 2009) (Table (Table11).

Summary of some common plant antimicrobial peptides about their classification and Bioactivities

Peptide Classification Function Potency Refs.

Ep-AMP1 Knottin-type peptides Antibacterial, Antifungal 0.31–10e Aboye et al, 2015
Click to expand...


As for preparation in general it's just like CBD topicals for recipes but not exactly as easy since more water based. I have pondered a DMSO based topical to increase absorption. I think this full spectrum extract has many uses similar to cannabis topical and more hopefully too in many medicinal ways as future research comes out.
 
Here's my thread about pulling from San Pedro with crude alcohol soak and evap...


1. I left each wash of alcohol soak on the cactus powder for 24 hours each pull, shaking well several times during this period.

2. Extraction was done at room temperature at every stage.

3. I used a mix of 195° Everclear and 70% isopropyl. Next time I will do this strictly with 70% isopropyl.
 
That really is amazing about the Knottin peptides of T. pachanoi.

I've used cactus tea as shower gel/body lotion and there is definitely (by my subjective perception) something that is active transdermally - and not just the mescaline. (Oh, to be able to do that more often!)

I wouldn't be surprised if some of the oligosaccharides (pectin slime) might enhance transdermal absorption. It's tempting to make a comparison with HPBCD.

AMPs contain 4–12 cysteine residues forming disulfide bonds, which can make them exceptionally stable to chemical, thermal and enzymatic degradation by stabilizing their tertiary and quaternary structures
Click to expand...
So this means they'll likely carry over into a brew sufficiently well.

Would you happen to know if the knottins might precipitate from an aqueous brew on addition of ethanol?
 
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