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4-HO/4-PO/4-AcO Tryptamine discussion
- Thread starter JesusGreen
- Start date
Im a bit confused..there are soo many posts here with people talking about how they are ordering 4-aco-DMT etc..but I thought it was scheduled?..I DONT want vendor names at all..just wondering if it is actaully scheduled etc..I dont hear about people ordering 2ce or 2cb etc anymore so I find it odd people can still simply order acetyl-psilocin..
Astralking
Rising Star
Well 4 aco isn't scheduled in the UK. I can't remember why it's not under the tryptamines act... I think it's because it's not actually derived from tryptamine. But even scheduled drugs regulary get through the post! I remember one person that used to mail weed on a number of occasions!
Seven
Rising Star
this is what wiki says:
4-AcO-DMT may possibly be considered an analogue of psilocin, which is a Schedule I drug under the Controlled Substances Act of the USA, if there is evidence that it was being used for human consumption.
also out of the 2c's, i think only 2c-b and 2c-t-7 are scheduled. 2c-i, 2c-e, 2c-t-2, 2c-d, and 2c-c are still around.
4-AcO-DMT may possibly be considered an analogue of psilocin, which is a Schedule I drug under the Controlled Substances Act of the USA, if there is evidence that it was being used for human consumption.
also out of the 2c's, i think only 2c-b and 2c-t-7 are scheduled. 2c-i, 2c-e, 2c-t-2, 2c-d, and 2c-c are still around.
fraterS.O.L.
Bill Nye
Seven said:
I didn't plan on taking the whole dose at once. Probably 10mg at a time, feeling it out. I doubt 18-20 will do with the fumarate though, hence the 30mg.
imPsimon
Rising Star
25mg Is where it becomes strong for me.
I have worked my way up from 20, 25 to 27mgs so next will be 30.
20mg wasn't very strong but I think it's a good starting point
to get to know the substance.
!!And as said above, it's really important to test (1-2mg) first
in case you have been sent the wrong product.
You dont want to chuck down 10-20mgs of bromo dragonfly!!
I have worked my way up from 20, 25 to 27mgs so next will be 30.
20mg wasn't very strong but I think it's a good starting point
to get to know the substance.
!!And as said above, it's really important to test (1-2mg) first
in case you have been sent the wrong product.
You dont want to chuck down 10-20mgs of bromo dragonfly!!
I would like to chime in with my personal experience with 4-AcO-DMT.
30mg of this great compound was ingested with two very close friends last Saturday eve. This was unavoidably after a large meal which I think staggered the experience, especially the come up, but not in a bad way!
Very, very impressed with this stuff. Definitely one of my favourites, up there with the best of the best, following this particular experience. A gentle, gradual, smooth come up, no anxiety or weirdness, very different to mushrooms in this regard! I, or rather we, had been smoking homegrown cannabis beforehand which seemed to meld very nicely with the head space.
Felt sedated and dreamy, with an amazing opium like body high! Just felt incredibly content...had no desire to be anywhere else than there at that corner of time and space in the world. Little desire for social interaction, just felt so content to 'be', although we did have some funny chats later on. Felt incredibly clean and clear on the mind and body. Beautiful, jewel like, glittering, colourful visual realms behind closed eye lids, was easy to drift away through these with eyes closed and cool music, nothing 'in your face', gentle even while powerful. A deep all body encompassing feeling of euphoria as well, on a par with MDMA, but less forced, deeper and cleaner. None of the confrontational 'push' of mushrooms. They can make you work for your joy sometimes, maybe this makes it all the more special! I definitely still think mushrooms have their rightful place to. But, yeah, I'm a fan of this stuff!
30mg of this great compound was ingested with two very close friends last Saturday eve. This was unavoidably after a large meal which I think staggered the experience, especially the come up, but not in a bad way!
Very, very impressed with this stuff. Definitely one of my favourites, up there with the best of the best, following this particular experience. A gentle, gradual, smooth come up, no anxiety or weirdness, very different to mushrooms in this regard! I, or rather we, had been smoking homegrown cannabis beforehand which seemed to meld very nicely with the head space.
Felt sedated and dreamy, with an amazing opium like body high! Just felt incredibly content...had no desire to be anywhere else than there at that corner of time and space in the world. Little desire for social interaction, just felt so content to 'be', although we did have some funny chats later on. Felt incredibly clean and clear on the mind and body. Beautiful, jewel like, glittering, colourful visual realms behind closed eye lids, was easy to drift away through these with eyes closed and cool music, nothing 'in your face', gentle even while powerful. A deep all body encompassing feeling of euphoria as well, on a par with MDMA, but less forced, deeper and cleaner. None of the confrontational 'push' of mushrooms. They can make you work for your joy sometimes, maybe this makes it all the more special! I definitely still think mushrooms have their rightful place to. But, yeah, I'm a fan of this stuff!
fraterS.O.L.
Bill Nye
Very cool chem indeed. took 25mg. It came on pretty quick but I found it a quite relaxing trip. very easy to just zone out and visualizations to music were entrancing
Anyone try 4-ho-met? just aquired several grams and since 25mg was a good aco experience I thought I would start there with this one as well
Anyone try 4-ho-met? just aquired several grams and since 25mg was a good aco experience I thought I would start there with this one as well
Tangarine_Dreams
Rising Star
I have gotten sick every time ive eaten mushrooms. 7-10 times. only once did i not and it was the only mushroom chocolate ive ever eaten. the chef chipped it off the granite cold slab as a gift. split 3g of fungus in 60% coco butter chocolate. both ate 3 sugar cubes with "lsd" on them.
most wonderful day ever. spent it in the woods in fall with trees aflame. layed naked in the forest/yard on an airmatress with my gf. was perfect.
anyway, every other time they have made me feel sick. and every time ive felt ive taken too much. not actually taken too much, but like, an effect of the drug is to feel that ive taken too much of the drug.? lol. ive been nearly immobilize with nausea each time. thrown up from almost every one. i feel bloated. like a toxic toad trapped on a hot wet rock all day in summer. then my bones ache. i feel old. toxic old? ive gotten heatstroke 3 or 4 times while on them at festivals.
these are not mental effects. this isnt just part of the mindset. its like a combination of sicknesses that come with each time ive eaten fungus.
i take them, then an hour later i better be where i want to stay for the whole trip. it sucks.
then again, back to the bit about them feeling too strong... at t+2:00 every time, ive thought ohhh shit did i really wanan do this its just so... ghaaah. this is so much...
chaos. unbelievable ego death has been attained. i have been the most mentally altered i have ever been on my first dose of fungus. my friend and i both became those kids laying in the dirt at a mildly dangerous point in a layer of filth at a festival. various ppl tryign to coax you away. giving you water. we became a point at which various ppl would sit. to make sure we didnt get walked on. because they were interested. we couldnt talk. moving was like tryign to control a floating bubble with your mind... the slight sliver of connection i have to my body feels 20 feet away. my feet hit the ground with each step but it feels like they are about 5ft below ground level. somewhere within this area i float. no limit of physical energy. honestly marching up and down a .5mi long stone and dirt 50degree path. 10min each way. for hours. 13hrs of being beyond human, let loosing every memory and ability i ever had. a 4hr set of live infected mushroom washed over us. i dont remember it as sound. i remember it as something of the same feeling of alien data dmt has. loss of all motor control. loss of speach.i think to myself, "why cant i say my name?" then i realize i dotn know my name. or anything that ever happened to me. i spent a long time trying to remember a single memory. then i lost my inter dialogue. what is a person who is conscious, yet has no inner or outer dialogue? i remember a sliver of the feeling from that state. 3hrs of electric sky church. this i remember as light. all my thought happened as cascading Epiphanies. crystal spiderwebs of incomprehensible connections. every memory, thought, data, and realization i failed to find before? today i cant remember or understand any of what i thought. only the emotional imprint they left. i remember that vividly. but all of that beautiful cosmic dance of my mind being and thinking of and intrinsically connecting everything simultaneously for hours on end. so much cascading information that i still could not move. it was all understood. still in the same spot. maybe rolled a few feel down the slope. suddenly a moment. my friend and i ask eachother at, what felt like, the same time something that was a statement of our mutual dislike of our location and the need to travel. was this one of the famous facial expression conversations the psychedelic world has granted? i belive so because that is about where my return to our world had come to a stop. 2 hrs of us walking to and from the campsite. perplexed why we wanted to go to the tent when we got there, yet disgusted when we ventured out of the trees from it. 3hrs of my brain crashing, colliding, and clashing with integration. never have i felt such resistance to re-assimilation. critical analysis of every bod, neutral, or questionable aspect of my past current, and future life. similar to the cascade of light, yet, all in straight lines. mostly that led into darkness. all the while understanding that this was okay.
honestly a higher + experience than vaped dmt. or any other drug or combo ive done.
but too much most of the time. maybe thats my fault... but i wouldnt be bear as apprehensive... without the gutwrenching nausea.
most wonderful day ever. spent it in the woods in fall with trees aflame. layed naked in the forest/yard on an airmatress with my gf. was perfect.
anyway, every other time they have made me feel sick. and every time ive felt ive taken too much. not actually taken too much, but like, an effect of the drug is to feel that ive taken too much of the drug.? lol. ive been nearly immobilize with nausea each time. thrown up from almost every one. i feel bloated. like a toxic toad trapped on a hot wet rock all day in summer. then my bones ache. i feel old. toxic old? ive gotten heatstroke 3 or 4 times while on them at festivals.
these are not mental effects. this isnt just part of the mindset. its like a combination of sicknesses that come with each time ive eaten fungus.
i take them, then an hour later i better be where i want to stay for the whole trip. it sucks.
then again, back to the bit about them feeling too strong... at t+2:00 every time, ive thought ohhh shit did i really wanan do this its just so... ghaaah. this is so much...
chaos. unbelievable ego death has been attained. i have been the most mentally altered i have ever been on my first dose of fungus. my friend and i both became those kids laying in the dirt at a mildly dangerous point in a layer of filth at a festival. various ppl tryign to coax you away. giving you water. we became a point at which various ppl would sit. to make sure we didnt get walked on. because they were interested. we couldnt talk. moving was like tryign to control a floating bubble with your mind... the slight sliver of connection i have to my body feels 20 feet away. my feet hit the ground with each step but it feels like they are about 5ft below ground level. somewhere within this area i float. no limit of physical energy. honestly marching up and down a .5mi long stone and dirt 50degree path. 10min each way. for hours. 13hrs of being beyond human, let loosing every memory and ability i ever had. a 4hr set of live infected mushroom washed over us. i dont remember it as sound. i remember it as something of the same feeling of alien data dmt has. loss of all motor control. loss of speach.i think to myself, "why cant i say my name?" then i realize i dotn know my name. or anything that ever happened to me. i spent a long time trying to remember a single memory. then i lost my inter dialogue. what is a person who is conscious, yet has no inner or outer dialogue? i remember a sliver of the feeling from that state. 3hrs of electric sky church. this i remember as light. all my thought happened as cascading Epiphanies. crystal spiderwebs of incomprehensible connections. every memory, thought, data, and realization i failed to find before? today i cant remember or understand any of what i thought. only the emotional imprint they left. i remember that vividly. but all of that beautiful cosmic dance of my mind being and thinking of and intrinsically connecting everything simultaneously for hours on end. so much cascading information that i still could not move. it was all understood. still in the same spot. maybe rolled a few feel down the slope. suddenly a moment. my friend and i ask eachother at, what felt like, the same time something that was a statement of our mutual dislike of our location and the need to travel. was this one of the famous facial expression conversations the psychedelic world has granted? i belive so because that is about where my return to our world had come to a stop. 2 hrs of us walking to and from the campsite. perplexed why we wanted to go to the tent when we got there, yet disgusted when we ventured out of the trees from it. 3hrs of my brain crashing, colliding, and clashing with integration. never have i felt such resistance to re-assimilation. critical analysis of every bod, neutral, or questionable aspect of my past current, and future life. similar to the cascade of light, yet, all in straight lines. mostly that led into darkness. all the while understanding that this was okay.
honestly a higher + experience than vaped dmt. or any other drug or combo ive done.
but too much most of the time. maybe thats my fault... but i wouldnt be bear as apprehensive... without the gutwrenching nausea.
justine
Rising Star
A reputable canadian rc shop (shipping from the us) has recently been restocked in 4-ACO-DMT, however they are selling the freebase so I have three questions :
1- Will the freebase degrade extremely fast or can it last a few months ?
2- What about dosage (since it's usually stated for hcl or fumarate) ?
3- I was thinking about salting it with vinegar and dilute in water to extend its shelf life, what do you think about it ?
Thanks !
justine,
1- Will the freebase degrade extremely fast or can it last a few months ?
2- What about dosage (since it's usually stated for hcl or fumarate) ?
3- I was thinking about salting it with vinegar and dilute in water to extend its shelf life, what do you think about it ?
Thanks !
justine,
Electric.Sight
Rising Star
I recall reading potency between forms follows this trend: Freebase>Hcl>Fumarate
Don't quote me for truth perhaps someone else can confirm?
Definitely need less freebase than if you had a salt.
If anyone has experience with vaporizing freebased 4-subs; particularly 4-aco-dmt, I would love to hear reports! They are hard to come by as most people have the fumarate salt.
Don't quote me for truth perhaps someone else can confirm?
Definitely need less freebase than if you had a salt.
If anyone has experience with vaporizing freebased 4-subs; particularly 4-aco-dmt, I would love to hear reports! They are hard to come by as most people have the fumarate salt.
justine
Rising Star
I did a few calculations :
HCL molar mass = 36.46 g/mol
Fumaric acid molar mass = 116.07 g/mol
4-ACO-DMT molar mass = 246.3049 g/mol
1 mol of 4-aco-dmt HCL weighs 282,7649 g (246,3049+36,46)
Meaning the freebase is 282,7649/246,3049 = +- 14.8% more potent than the HCL
And as for the fumarate, since one molecule of fumaric acid will bond with 2 molecules of 4-aco-dmt the freebase is :
( 116,07/2 + 246,3049) / 246,3049= 304,3399/246,3049 = +- 23.56% more potent than the fumarate
=>
16mg of freebase is be around the same potency as 20mg fumarate or 18.4mg hcl
20mg of freebase is be around the same potency as 25mg fumarate or 23mg hcl
25mg of freebase is be around the same potency as 30mg fumarate or 28.7mg hcl (probably a good starting point for people experienced with psychedelics)
32mg of freebase is be around the same potency as 40mg fumarate or 36,7mg hcl
HCL molar mass = 36.46 g/mol
Fumaric acid molar mass = 116.07 g/mol
4-ACO-DMT molar mass = 246.3049 g/mol
1 mol of 4-aco-dmt HCL weighs 282,7649 g (246,3049+36,46)
Meaning the freebase is 282,7649/246,3049 = +- 14.8% more potent than the HCL
And as for the fumarate, since one molecule of fumaric acid will bond with 2 molecules of 4-aco-dmt the freebase is :
( 116,07/2 + 246,3049) / 246,3049= 304,3399/246,3049 = +- 23.56% more potent than the fumarate
=>
16mg of freebase is be around the same potency as 20mg fumarate or 18.4mg hcl
20mg of freebase is be around the same potency as 25mg fumarate or 23mg hcl
25mg of freebase is be around the same potency as 30mg fumarate or 28.7mg hcl (probably a good starting point for people experienced with psychedelics)
32mg of freebase is be around the same potency as 40mg fumarate or 36,7mg hcl
RigaCrypto
Rising Star
I've tried mushrooms, 4-AcO-DMT, 4-AcO-MiPT and 4-HO-MiPT, and while I found consistent differences between the substances, I've had a far higher amplitude of variation in the effects of the same substance on different trips. I've found that whether the experience is 'muddy' and 'chaotic' or clear and euphoric depends mostly on how I go about the trip. When I first tried 4-x-T's, I didn't like them at all. Now that I've found how to handle them, they are my favorite drugs.
When I first started taking them, I would get mentally confused, fatigued, physically cold and nauseous experiences without any visuals whatsoever. I permanently felt like my mind was bursting at the seams with pressure and I felt like I had been awake for weeks and needed to go to sleep but I was forcing myself with all my might to stay awake so that I could sort out the issues the trip was bringing forth. The emotional whirlpool they were letting lose was keeping me searching for answers until my mind was so clogged that I couldn't think a coherent thought anymore.
Then, after deciding to give 4-Ho-MiPT another try a couple of years later, I finally had an experience where I saw how to enjoy it and what it is really capable of. Instead of trying to stay awake and conscious, and fighting to understand and solve the problems it was showing me, I just 'let go'. I took a leap of faith into the abyss, disregarding the vital urgency, the emotional intensity and my conservation instinct that were prodding me to fight to remain conscious, intellectually coherent and in control of my mind. I surrendered to death, and I was taken through some kind of vibration running through me like a torrent issuing forth from the void, a few moments of nothingness and total peace, reminiscent of a deep and restful sleep, followed by a rebirth into the world I could not see before through the veil of the thoughts accumulated in my mind. I had been cleansed and purified, and I was free to take inside me the world around, which finally showed itself in all its majestic and crystalline beauty, created anew every moment as I had been reborn myself through the psychedelic experience.
And then, I was further surprised, for as before I had never had any kind of visuals from 4-x-T's, I began having the most complex and vivid visuals I had ever had. They literally came out of the woodwork, as if I was finally free to see them after the confusion was lifted from my mind. This is the only substance I've had photorealistic CEV's on, actual objects indistinguishable from reality, as opposed to the computer graphics-like artwork I see on other substances. I saw Byzantine church spires, Arab palaces, intricate arabesque patterns carved in stone, vistas of cities from above. They were more similar to dream visuals than psychedelic CEV's, and the closest thing I can compare them to are some very vivid hypnagogic visuals I sometimes get. As far as drugs go, the only one that compared IME was some of the cleanest acid.
For the rest of the trip, I felt as if I had woken from a deep, restful sleep. My mind was crystal clear, and I felt full of life and energy. Whereas before I only wanted to lie down and try to get comfortable, now I wanted to get up and do stuff, talk to people, explore, have fun. Even though I was having exquisite visuals, mentally I felt absolutely sober, with just a clean and natural-feeling tranquility and energy, a 'centered' feeling as I've seen it described, where my soul and mind felt like they were just the way they were meant to be, at total peace and working at their full capacity. I had a complex and lengthy conversation on messenger where my mental acuity, my typing speed and accuracy were improved and the general import of my opinions and emotions was essentially unchanged from my sober state, without the confusion and convoluted thoughts I often get on psychedelics. I felt more sober than sober.
And for the next 3-4 days I felt incredible. I felt reborn and purified, healthy and sober. The world around me was crisp and vivid, with intensified colors, and I felt like I was seeing it for the first time, feeling its solidity and being able to plunge into it and bathe myself in its symphony of sensations. All of this experience felt like the most natural thing, without the alien feelings common to many PEA's, without the burnout I get from LSD and without any body load whatsoever.
And further experiences have reinforced this conclusion. What I got out of them depended on how successful I was in 'letting go'.
Beyond this range of variation though, I've also encountered differences between substances. 4-AcO-DMT felt like a fuzzy warm blanket over my brain, buffering me against bad trips but also leaving me incapable of clear thought and deep exploration. I felt sedated, more comfortable in a way than on 4-HO-MiPT but without the energy and crystal clarity of the latter. The visuals were vivid but also somewhat blurred and less realistic. 4-AcO-MiPT seemed similar but a bit less emotionally deep.
4-HO-MiPT though is my favorite drug and absolutely perfect for me. It offers everything I imagined when I first heard of psychedelic drugs and a lot more. And it has no body load, come-down or negative after-effects whatsoever, it feels like the most natural and healthiest drug I've tried next to DMT. If I let go the way I should, I get none of the fatigue or burnout that detracts from the otherwise almost-perfect LSD.
When I first started taking them, I would get mentally confused, fatigued, physically cold and nauseous experiences without any visuals whatsoever. I permanently felt like my mind was bursting at the seams with pressure and I felt like I had been awake for weeks and needed to go to sleep but I was forcing myself with all my might to stay awake so that I could sort out the issues the trip was bringing forth. The emotional whirlpool they were letting lose was keeping me searching for answers until my mind was so clogged that I couldn't think a coherent thought anymore.
Then, after deciding to give 4-Ho-MiPT another try a couple of years later, I finally had an experience where I saw how to enjoy it and what it is really capable of. Instead of trying to stay awake and conscious, and fighting to understand and solve the problems it was showing me, I just 'let go'. I took a leap of faith into the abyss, disregarding the vital urgency, the emotional intensity and my conservation instinct that were prodding me to fight to remain conscious, intellectually coherent and in control of my mind. I surrendered to death, and I was taken through some kind of vibration running through me like a torrent issuing forth from the void, a few moments of nothingness and total peace, reminiscent of a deep and restful sleep, followed by a rebirth into the world I could not see before through the veil of the thoughts accumulated in my mind. I had been cleansed and purified, and I was free to take inside me the world around, which finally showed itself in all its majestic and crystalline beauty, created anew every moment as I had been reborn myself through the psychedelic experience.
And then, I was further surprised, for as before I had never had any kind of visuals from 4-x-T's, I began having the most complex and vivid visuals I had ever had. They literally came out of the woodwork, as if I was finally free to see them after the confusion was lifted from my mind. This is the only substance I've had photorealistic CEV's on, actual objects indistinguishable from reality, as opposed to the computer graphics-like artwork I see on other substances. I saw Byzantine church spires, Arab palaces, intricate arabesque patterns carved in stone, vistas of cities from above. They were more similar to dream visuals than psychedelic CEV's, and the closest thing I can compare them to are some very vivid hypnagogic visuals I sometimes get. As far as drugs go, the only one that compared IME was some of the cleanest acid.
For the rest of the trip, I felt as if I had woken from a deep, restful sleep. My mind was crystal clear, and I felt full of life and energy. Whereas before I only wanted to lie down and try to get comfortable, now I wanted to get up and do stuff, talk to people, explore, have fun. Even though I was having exquisite visuals, mentally I felt absolutely sober, with just a clean and natural-feeling tranquility and energy, a 'centered' feeling as I've seen it described, where my soul and mind felt like they were just the way they were meant to be, at total peace and working at their full capacity. I had a complex and lengthy conversation on messenger where my mental acuity, my typing speed and accuracy were improved and the general import of my opinions and emotions was essentially unchanged from my sober state, without the confusion and convoluted thoughts I often get on psychedelics. I felt more sober than sober.
And for the next 3-4 days I felt incredible. I felt reborn and purified, healthy and sober. The world around me was crisp and vivid, with intensified colors, and I felt like I was seeing it for the first time, feeling its solidity and being able to plunge into it and bathe myself in its symphony of sensations. All of this experience felt like the most natural thing, without the alien feelings common to many PEA's, without the burnout I get from LSD and without any body load whatsoever.
And further experiences have reinforced this conclusion. What I got out of them depended on how successful I was in 'letting go'.
Beyond this range of variation though, I've also encountered differences between substances. 4-AcO-DMT felt like a fuzzy warm blanket over my brain, buffering me against bad trips but also leaving me incapable of clear thought and deep exploration. I felt sedated, more comfortable in a way than on 4-HO-MiPT but without the energy and crystal clarity of the latter. The visuals were vivid but also somewhat blurred and less realistic. 4-AcO-MiPT seemed similar but a bit less emotionally deep.
4-HO-MiPT though is my favorite drug and absolutely perfect for me. It offers everything I imagined when I first heard of psychedelic drugs and a lot more. And it has no body load, come-down or negative after-effects whatsoever, it feels like the most natural and healthiest drug I've tried next to DMT. If I let go the way I should, I get none of the fatigue or burnout that detracts from the otherwise almost-perfect LSD.
has anyone tried vaporizing their 4-ho's? I have heard positive reports of doing so with 4-ho-dmt and 4-ho-det, although I think they were the freebase. They said similar to DMT for the 4-ho-dmt but took longer to develope. I can let you know how it works out for 4-ho-met fumarate this weekend, perhaps freebase if motivated.
biopsylo
Rising Star
again, i really appreciate your clear recollection of 4 ho mipt. i have only taken 30mg on 2 ocassions(same weekend). the first experience was much like you describe. really boundless, effortless pristine hallucinations-cev's without clouding the mind at all. it made me wonder where all the imagery was coming from, because the absence of bodyload. what dose range do you shoot for with these 4 ho/aco's?
Ayawasqero
Esteemed member
Yummy goodies. All of them.
