Mine is the old formula with half the potency of elemi oil. Both my 4 ml and 8 ml experience seemed pretty even so I'm not sure what that says about the Elemi X I have now. I'm a little doubtful about having psychedelic effects from elemi oil at this point, but I'm willing to try with regular oil and a dmso extraction.
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69Ron's "Triple E" Tech for Elemicin Extraction from Elemi Oil
- Thread starter 69ron
- Start date
69ron
Rising Star
Bassface, do you smoke cigarettes or marijuana regularly?
SWIM doesn’t smoke cigarettes or marijuana. I’m wondering if these have any effect on elemicin tolerance.
I read that elemicin and myristicin appear as ingredients added to some cigarettes. So smoking cigarettes may cause some tolerance to elemicin.
SWIM doesn’t smoke cigarettes or marijuana. I’m wondering if these have any effect on elemicin tolerance.
I read that elemicin and myristicin appear as ingredients added to some cigarettes. So smoking cigarettes may cause some tolerance to elemicin.
69ron
Rising Star
It seems like some people don't experience psychedelic effects from elemi oil, even very good quality elemi oil. I'm not sure why, but SWIM knows a few people who've tried doses of SWIM's very potent elemi oil that’s very psychedelic for SWIM, and they didn't get any psychedelic effects at all. I’m starting to wonder if all these mixed results are not so much from elemicin content but rather from individual sensitivity to elemicin.
It’s a known fact that people react to pure myristicin very different. Some get almost no side effects and lots of psychedelic effects from it, and others get side effects and little else, and yet others get pretty much no effects from it.
Elemicin is not known for side effects like myristicin, but I imagine its metabolism in humans is very similar to that of myristicin. It’s probably likely that people who get almost no psychedelic effects from pure myristicin probably won’t easily trip from elemicin either.
Maybe there’s an enzyme that needs to be inhibited in some people, like say cytochrome P450, in order for them to experience psychedelic effects from elemicin?
It’s a known fact that people react to pure myristicin very different. Some get almost no side effects and lots of psychedelic effects from it, and others get side effects and little else, and yet others get pretty much no effects from it.
Elemicin is not known for side effects like myristicin, but I imagine its metabolism in humans is very similar to that of myristicin. It’s probably likely that people who get almost no psychedelic effects from pure myristicin probably won’t easily trip from elemicin either.
Maybe there’s an enzyme that needs to be inhibited in some people, like say cytochrome P450, in order for them to experience psychedelic effects from elemicin?
69ron
Rising Star
How much of the elemi oil being sold is fake or adulterated? Does anyone know?
Maybe a better question is which vendors are known to sell fake or adulterated oils?
Is there a respected place that has this sort of information available that we can talk about?
A lot of documents on essential oils bring up the problem of fake or adulterated oils being an ongoing issue. Some very well known vendors have even been caught selling fake oils. The problem is that for the average person, it’s hard to know if their oil is 100% real authentic oil. I don’t think I could tell if elemi oil was fake or not just by smelling it. There are so many artificial scents available that if one is good at synthesizing scents in a lab, they could probably produce completely synthetic “elemi oil” that has no elemicin at all, and sell it as “100% pure” and get away with it.
As far as I know there is no regulation of essential oils and the FDA doesn’t check these oils. So if a company was found selling 100% fake oils, there’s nothing you can do about it because it’s not FDA regulated. Besides, they would claim they purchased the oil from a reseller overseas and they didn’t know it was fake. It’s a believable story.
This pretty much sucks. Not knowing if your oil is actually the real deal or not is a big problem. Is there a place that tests oils for you that doesn’t sell oils, so they have no vested interest in giving you false results? Does anyone know?
Maybe a better question is which vendors are known to sell fake or adulterated oils?
Is there a respected place that has this sort of information available that we can talk about?
A lot of documents on essential oils bring up the problem of fake or adulterated oils being an ongoing issue. Some very well known vendors have even been caught selling fake oils. The problem is that for the average person, it’s hard to know if their oil is 100% real authentic oil. I don’t think I could tell if elemi oil was fake or not just by smelling it. There are so many artificial scents available that if one is good at synthesizing scents in a lab, they could probably produce completely synthetic “elemi oil” that has no elemicin at all, and sell it as “100% pure” and get away with it.
As far as I know there is no regulation of essential oils and the FDA doesn’t check these oils. So if a company was found selling 100% fake oils, there’s nothing you can do about it because it’s not FDA regulated. Besides, they would claim they purchased the oil from a reseller overseas and they didn’t know it was fake. It’s a believable story.
This pretty much sucks. Not knowing if your oil is actually the real deal or not is a big problem. Is there a place that tests oils for you that doesn’t sell oils, so they have no vested interest in giving you false results? Does anyone know?
magickpencil
Rising Star
SWIM:
Male / 170lbs / 6'6" / smokes cannabis and tobacco daily
SWIM drank 15ml elemi oil + 6oz whole milk two days ago
Minimal to no effect
Male / 170lbs / 6'6" / smokes cannabis and tobacco daily
SWIM drank 15ml elemi oil + 6oz whole milk two days ago
Minimal to no effect
Otiliya
Rising Star
69ron
I was thinking, maybe simply boil off the unwanted DMSO and Eucalyptol. This will evaporate some elimicin as well, but not by much since there is a descent gap between boiling points. Would be nice to do outside too, preferably over a controlled heat source. DMSO has a low flash point though, idk if it will ignite in the air. or if anything will degrade/decompose,
Eucalyptol bp: 176-177C
DMSO bp: 189C
Elemicin bp: 279.8C @ standard pressure
Maybe not all DMSO or eucalyptol will evaporate, but still, having 1/10th of the original mount could be hardly noticible.
is it worth a try?
I was thinking, maybe simply boil off the unwanted DMSO and Eucalyptol. This will evaporate some elimicin as well, but not by much since there is a descent gap between boiling points. Would be nice to do outside too, preferably over a controlled heat source. DMSO has a low flash point though, idk if it will ignite in the air. or if anything will degrade/decompose,
Eucalyptol bp: 176-177C
DMSO bp: 189C
Elemicin bp: 279.8C @ standard pressure
Maybe not all DMSO or eucalyptol will evaporate, but still, having 1/10th of the original mount could be hardly noticible.
is it worth a try?
69ron
Rising Star
SWIM has done enough testing using elemicin now that the following has been found to be pretty consistent:
1 - Taking elemicin in a capsule on a full stomach produces a stimulant effect that is only weakly psychedelic, if at all.
2 - Taking elemicin with undiluted DMSO produces a stimulant effect the same as taking elemicin on a full stomach.
3 - Taking elemicin dissolved in food (whole milk is good) produces the best possible psychedelic experience. Another option is to take the elemicin in a capsule immediately followed by food.
This information is to be taken seriously. SWIM has kept a log of dozens of tests and has duplicated these results consistently with both DMSO extracted elemicin, pure elemi oil, and 80% pure elemicin.
Apparently, you don't want the elemicin to be absorbed in the walls of the stomach or you get stimulant effects and little or no psychedelic effects. It needs to be absorbed somewhere further down in the digestive system. Ideally you want to mix the elemicin with something oily or fatty that has a lot of body that takes a long time to digest. This is critical.
1 - Taking elemicin in a capsule on a full stomach produces a stimulant effect that is only weakly psychedelic, if at all.
2 - Taking elemicin with undiluted DMSO produces a stimulant effect the same as taking elemicin on a full stomach.
3 - Taking elemicin dissolved in food (whole milk is good) produces the best possible psychedelic experience. Another option is to take the elemicin in a capsule immediately followed by food.
This information is to be taken seriously. SWIM has kept a log of dozens of tests and has duplicated these results consistently with both DMSO extracted elemicin, pure elemi oil, and 80% pure elemicin.
Apparently, you don't want the elemicin to be absorbed in the walls of the stomach or you get stimulant effects and little or no psychedelic effects. It needs to be absorbed somewhere further down in the digestive system. Ideally you want to mix the elemicin with something oily or fatty that has a lot of body that takes a long time to digest. This is critical.
69ron
Rising Star
There is an easy way to make enteric coating for capsules. I found out how to do it last night. It’s actually pretty easy. You coat the capsule with a few coats of food grade shellac dissolved in alcohol and let it evaporate. The gelatin capsules are insoluble in alcohol so they won’t melt. Food grade shellac is non-toxic and has been used for this purpose for many years.
I think we should have a thread solely devoted to making your own enteric coated capsules. This is very useful for a lot of drugs.
SWIM has ordered some food grade shellac and will be trying this with 80% pure elemicin very shortly. The method is simple. Fill the capsule with elemicin, close the capsule, paint it with shellac dissolved in alcohol, then dry it. This should allow the capsule to bypass the stomach.
As soon as the elemicin and shellac arrive SWIM will post a trip report on it.
I think we should have a thread solely devoted to making your own enteric coated capsules. This is very useful for a lot of drugs.
SWIM has ordered some food grade shellac and will be trying this with 80% pure elemicin very shortly. The method is simple. Fill the capsule with elemicin, close the capsule, paint it with shellac dissolved in alcohol, then dry it. This should allow the capsule to bypass the stomach.
As soon as the elemicin and shellac arrive SWIM will post a trip report on it.
Which ones do you think would benefit from such an approach?
Maybe indeed it is worth another thread so as not to clutter this one which already seems to be having valuable info.
69ron
Rising Star
Crystalito said:
The one on the top of my mind is MESCALINE. Some people cannot take mescaline without getting nausea. An enteric coated capsule of mescaline will solve the problem. Also some drugs are actually destroyed by the acid in the stomach, and rendered inactive, so an enteric coating is needed for them.
Enteric coatings can also prevent resalting of drugs. Some drugs have better action as certains salts, or even as freebase. But when they enter the stomach, the stomach acid can make them into hydrochlorides. For example, some mescaline acetate that enters the stomach is converted to mescaline HCl, especially if it sits in the stomach too long. Freebase DMT can become DMT Hcl.
I think bufotenine would also be a good candidate for this. Freebase bufotenine cannot be used orally because it becomes the unpleasant bufotenine HCl. Putting freebase bufotenine in an enteric coated capsule would prevent that. So it might be possible to experience a freebase bufotenine trip orally if one used an enteric coated capsule.
There are many uses for this.
SWIM wants to try freebase bufotenine orally in an enteric coated capsule. I believe that would produce a trip nearly equal to smoking it without all the unpleasantness of oral bufotenine taken without an enteric coating.
69ron
Rising Star
Another use is that the Triple E extract could be put into a capsule and then coated with enteric coating. That would prevent the DMSO from passing the elemicin through the stomach, thereby producing psychedelic effects instead of stimulant effects (if my theory is right).
69ron
Rising Star
Any kind of shellac will do as long as it says on the container that it's "non-toxic, safe for children's toys & food area". I didn't realize it earlier but it can apparently be purchased at the local hardware store for pretty cheap.
BULLS EYE SHELLAC is one such shellac that's safe for use on things children might put in their mouths, which basically means its food grade. It says on the can that it's approved by the FDA. The FDA allows you to use it on kitchen utensils such as wooden spoons and other things you might put in your mouth.
BULLS EYE SHELLAC is one such shellac that's safe for use on things children might put in their mouths, which basically means its food grade. It says on the can that it's approved by the FDA. The FDA allows you to use it on kitchen utensils such as wooden spoons and other things you might put in your mouth.
69ron
Rising Star
azrael said:
At least 100 mg should be needed for mild effects for bufotenine.
azrael said:
I can't remember if it is or not. I've sort of stopped researching yopo for a while and so I'd have to go back and look in my previous notes. Right now I'm researching elemi oil almost exclusively and apparently driving a lot of people nuts because of it
azrael said:
Well SWIM is going to try this enteric coating idea first with pure elemicin so that's why it was posted in this thread. If it works well for elemicin then SWIM will make a thread devoted to enteric coating. Maybe the coating doesn't work well. SWIM has not tried it yet.
On a few other forums people think I'm totally lying about elemi oil! I was just called a liar on another forum by several long time members who don't believe elemi oil does anything at all. It's amazing how close minded some people are out there.
What I like about this forum is that people are open to new ideas. I think the worst most close minded forum is Bluelight. I don't have an account there. Did you know that they had some great threads on elemi oil there that I read and they were all recently deleted? As soon as some good trip reports started rolling in, the MODs deleted the threads. I'm glad I never posted there. All of my posts would be lost forever. What a bunch of close minded MODs.
100mg w/o maoi? What's the mao situation past the stomach? I know it's 'everywhere' but how much etc? I'm probably one of the few people who are still interested in bufo here :roll:
Dunno why BL would delete posts except that limiting info might keep it an unconfirmed myth for the majority of the few who've heard about it, and consequently keep it out of the mainstream and legal longer. Have you checked archive.org?
lol, yeah I read a few of those threads on other forums. Some "experimenters" expect a tried and true method to spoon feed them direct results.69ron said:
Dunno why BL would delete posts except that limiting info might keep it an unconfirmed myth for the majority of the few who've heard about it, and consequently keep it out of the mainstream and legal longer. Have you checked archive.org?
69ron
Rising Star
azrael said:
MAOI’s shouldn’t matter much for bufotenine.
That’s 100 mg without an MAOI. 50 mg with an MAOI supposedly, but SWIM never tried it with an MAOI only without. It’s active as is, but very nauseating, and not very hallucinogenic. This should be fixed by putting in a capsule covered with enteric coating. It should have effects like that of an enema, which is something SWIM did once and it was FANTASTIC! Better than smoking pure freebase bufotenine. But enemas are not something SWIM likes, so it was never repeated. If that same kind of trip can be had by using freebase bufotenine orally in a capsule then that will be great!
SWIM still likes bufotenine quite a bit, but because of the recent scare at BBB and the possibility of things like Yopo never being available again, SWIM has started looking into legal psychedelics, and that lead to discovering elemi oil.
SWIM will try freebase bufotenine in an enteric coated capsule for sure. It will be a while though before he can test that out.
azrael said:
BL bans members all the time. They like things the way they like them and if you don’t like it, tough. The MODs are highly involved in censorship there.
Check out this cache of a page from a great thread on BL about elemi oil. This is from Google. The actual thread has since been censored on BL by deletion. The MODs did not like people posting positive experiences with elemi oil and silenced them. Maybe someone there sells illegal drugs and doesn’t want elemicin to cut into their profits. I don’t know. Whatever the reason is, I don’t like it.
That cache will only work for so long and then Google will delete the cache, so check it out before its gone forever.
Look at this post from that deleted thread:
Propyl Power said:
That guy gets effects that are pretty much identical to SWIM's take on elemi oil. Hopefully he will post on this forum one day and I can talk with him. His posts were met with the same crap I get when I post about elemi oil on other forums. The ignorance out there is amazing.
Seven
Rising Star
Figured id post here after reading a trip report at edot. The elemi extract seemed to take this guy by surprise.