• Members of the previous forum can retrieve their temporary password here, (login and check your PM).

99% Pure Theobromine

Migrated topic.
It's a long list and it is a personal thing if you like or don't like an additive.
For instance, i would not add tobacco to my brews (quitted smoking years ago) but i know that it does seriously affect the trip.
All cafeïne like compounds that reduce the enzymes that break down cAMP transmitters and all herbs containing them have some effect; coffee, tea, green tea, maté, kola nut, cocoa, pure cafeïne, pure theobromine, and i'm sure i'm forgetting some here.
Many other psycho-active tryptamines work synergystically as well; 5-MeO-DMT, bufotenin, psilocybin, psilocin, etc.
There are many other traditional compounds, but many of them are very dangerous as well. If you want to experiment, always start with a low dose.
 
polytrip said:
Well, there is no preference in theobromine for cAMP effects that occur within the range of the DMT mind state. The brain activity that would normally be supressed by DMT would also be amplified by how theobromine intermediates in cAMP activity. This means that part of the DMT effects would be amplified and another part of it would be reduced. At least, that's my speculation.
I think THH is something that will make the balance tip to the other side, depending on the dosage. This would have to do with the increased amounts of DMT in the blood and the increased amounts in the brain itself as well.
On this forum there where speculations on wether the visual effects of DMT would be caused by it's serotonergic effects or it's effects on other transmitters. One argument here is that there are other tryptamines such as 5-MeO-DMT that affect the serotonergic system like DMT, but that lack visual activity.
At the same time 69ron once compared 5-MeO-DMT, DMT and bufotenin and it became clear that the most visual compound hast the longest lasting effect while the least visual compound has the shortest lasting effect. It's also a fact that 5-MeO-DMT becomes more visual when it's taken in combination with MAOI's and it becomes longer lasting.
I think that how long a molecule is active within the brain itself, may have something to do with this. This is ofcourse a pure speculation, but i think that 5-MeO-DMT has a shorter lasting effect on each receptor, that once it activated a receptor, it's removed by the brains mechanisms quickly. So if you block this mechanisms within the brain, not just the stomach, it will make any compound more visual.
Click to expand...

5-MeO-DMT lasts as long as DMT if not longer. Also 5-OH-DMT is visual however the visuals are certainly different than DMT (although similaur). DMT is without a doubt more visual than bufotenine and much shorter acting. Additionaly there are other non-visual hallucinogens which last a very long time like MIPT, DET, AMT. It seems much more likely that the visual effects are mediated by an additional receptor/mechanism. One which 5-MeO-DMT does not bind to but visual compounds do. See Wallachs Endogenous Hallucinogen article for all this information. Also the visual effects start immediatly and tend to decrease if anything as the trip goes on. cAMP is not known to play a role in any of the DMT mediated 5-HT2a effects although it may for other sites for example TAAR1 although this is not known. Additionaly DMT's and other HA effects are not from a decrease in neural activity in fact most of these compounds lead to a genereal excitation of the cortex via enhanced glutamate transmission in the prefrontal cortex. Also the excitation of Theo is from its antagonism of adenosine receptors. Thus it is likely that the attenuation of visual effects by Theo is from some unknown mechanism.
Regarding 5-MeO-DMT becoming more visual with MAOI's. I am not sure where you heard this this is certainly not the case for SWIM and others he knows. Additionaly it seems unlikely as MAOI's are known to decrease the visuals of DMT and other visual hallucinogens. The reason for this is unknown but there is much speculation. There is something going on at the molecular level which attenuates the visual effects.
 
Also 5-MeO-DMT is orally active at around 35mg. Thus it has resistance to MAO that DMT does not have. Also MAO is not the only enzyme responsible for the metabolism for these compounds other unknown factors exist so this is also an issue. The effects of the two compounds are very different and without a doubt are a result of activity at different receptors. 5-MeO for example has significant activity at both 5-HT2a and 5-HT1a whereas DMT has much less affinity for 5-HT1a. However as Wallach's article describes this difference can not account for the difference in visual effects. Some additional site/mechanism must be responsible.
 
Well, there's one phenomenon where occam's razor doesn't work then. For one type of molecule to be able to affect such different transmitter systems at the same time...
Nevertheless, i believe you and 69ron disagree on the 5MeO-DMT and bufotenin thing here. I only have experience with these substances as one of the active ingredients in ayahuasca brews, so i wouldn't know about either pure 5-MeO-* or bufo.
 
I can not speak for 69ron but in the one thread on these three compounds he says that 5-MeO-DMT lasts abut 15 minutes which is about the same for DMT give or take. In SWIMS experience 5-MeO lasts slightly longer than DMT. DMT lasting about 10-15min depending on dose. Also he says that 5-MeO lacks the typical tryp visual which I also agree on as does almost everyopne. Bufotenine visual effects may be variable in users since 69ron seems to get very intense breakthrough visuals whereas SWIM and others while do get significant visuals these are not as intense as DMT and are strucutraly different in nature. I do not see any correlation between visual effects and duration of action of a drug as there are none, additionaly this makes little sense on the physiological side. There are plenty of examples which disprove this view including severeal known active compounds. I am not sure which points you are refering to us differing on but I would gladly adress any such points if you bring them to my attention.
 
Back
Top Bottom