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99% Pure Theobromine
- Thread starter Jorkest
- Start date
interesting
I once asked Dr. Strassman (via email) if chocolate potentiates the psychedelic experience of psilocybin, as native mexican indian shamen were known to create infusions containing chocolate and p. mexicana.
he said he did not know, and that it would make for an interesting paper.
I now know that theobromine is primarily a phosphodiesterase inhibitor (like caffeine), rather than an MAOI, so ATP metabolism is temporarily inhibited
actually did a soxhlet extraction from hershey's dark cocoa, using denatured EtOH. was left with cocoa essential oils, and a good deal of polymorphic theobromine
I once asked Dr. Strassman (via email) if chocolate potentiates the psychedelic experience of psilocybin, as native mexican indian shamen were known to create infusions containing chocolate and p. mexicana.
he said he did not know, and that it would make for an interesting paper.
I now know that theobromine is primarily a phosphodiesterase inhibitor (like caffeine), rather than an MAOI, so ATP metabolism is temporarily inhibited
actually did a soxhlet extraction from hershey's dark cocoa, using denatured EtOH. was left with cocoa essential oils, and a good deal of polymorphic theobromine
mew
huachumancer
so, im pretty sure it does potentiate the effects
did you find that it not only has stimulation, but MAOIness?
a lil experiment to find out whats what.
take 4 g of shrooms
and cacao nibs
use 2 g of shrooms by themselves
record your experience
use the other identical dose of 2g shrooms plus a meal full of cacao
after the shrooms kick in.
see what happens
my hypothesis is you will "have the curtain on a beautiful show lifted for about 30 minutes" or so
i believe that cacao is a short acting maoi so takinig after the effects of the lil shroomies starts would be best IMHO
best of luck if you undertake such an adventure
i always advise shroomers to get some high grade dark pure chocolate to eat with about an hour after thier ingestion of le shrooms
peace in every direction.
did you find that it not only has stimulation, but MAOIness?
a lil experiment to find out whats what.
take 4 g of shrooms
and cacao nibs
use 2 g of shrooms by themselves
record your experience
use the other identical dose of 2g shrooms plus a meal full of cacao
after the shrooms kick in.
see what happens
my hypothesis is you will "have the curtain on a beautiful show lifted for about 30 minutes" or so
i believe that cacao is a short acting maoi so takinig after the effects of the lil shroomies starts would be best IMHO
best of luck if you undertake such an adventure
i always advise shroomers to get some high grade dark pure chocolate to eat with about an hour after thier ingestion of le shrooms
peace in every direction.
chocolate is such a weak maoi, might as well take passionflower extract, which is probably a bit stronger.
what theobromine potentiates is a cAMP cascade.
another interesting experiment would be taking piperine with psilocin, the former compound is notorious for augmenting the bioavailability of certain compounds, and attenuating others.
what theobromine potentiates is a cAMP cascade.
another interesting experiment would be taking piperine with psilocin, the former compound is notorious for augmenting the bioavailability of certain compounds, and attenuating others.
There's PEA and choline in cocoa as well. Somewhere on this forum someone mentioned that choline increases DMT visuals. There's also a small amount of anadamine(cannabinoïd receptor agonist) in it, but i believe it was entropymancer who said that this substance cannot pass the brain-bloodbarrier.
69ron
Rising Star
I'm willing to bet that those other compounds in cocoa do almost nothing at all to enhance the effects of ayahuasca and DMT because there is so little present. I bet it's only the theobromine that does it. I bet you can get enhancement with JUST theobromine alone.
Any takers on my bet?
Any takers on my bet?
I doubt it after people read jorkests post.69ron said:
theobromine exerts excitatory effects, albeit much milder than caffeine, its sister compound. their pharmacological actions are the same. so if you guys think theobromine potentiates a trip, then theoretically, so would a No-Doz.
Caffeine should also if theobromine does. Both are present in chocolate and both have similaur pharmacologies. It is possible that in the presence of an MAOI, the PEA in chocalate also has a significant effect on the experience. Studies have been preformed administering PEA with MAOIs and emotional responses are reported. Whether this is to enhance the visual effects is less likely. The cannabinoids in chocalate can certainly pass the BBB. and studies have been preformed showing these compounds psychoactive via injection in mice. However they are present in small amounts and are also likely to undergo first pass metabolism ( thus they may not be typicaly orally active but this doesn't eman they don't cross the BBB). There are researcher who feel that theobromine can not fully explain the psychoactivity of chocolate. It certainly seems theobromine plays an intricate role however PEA, and other compouds may play apart especialy in combinations. As for potentiation of HA effects, methylxanthines can enhance abdorption of other compounds, as well as enhance any cAMP mediated cellular responses, as well as result in a genereal stimulation via antagonism of adenosine receptors. If the visual effects are mediated via a cAMP second messenger pathway then it would be predicted that any compound which enhances cAMP activity and impedes its degradation should act to enhance the visual effects (or any subjective effect mediated by cMAP for that matter).
Also SWIM reported that some preliminary research showed choline to alter the visual effects of DMT. This is interesting as HA act to alter the functioning of acetylcholine in various regions of the CNS. Thus visual effects may or may not be mediate by acetylcholine. Acetylcholine is very active during REM sleep and waking cosciousness and is believed to be involved in dreams.
the pharmacological role of PEA is a controversial one, and highly debatable. most find it without any activity at all.
yet endogenous PEA has recently been found to bind g-couple TA receptors, however its action at those receptors is poorly understood.
it's commonly thought that PEA is a sympatomimetic CNS stimulant
yet endogenous PEA has recently been found to bind g-couple TA receptors, however its action at those receptors is poorly understood.
it's commonly thought that PEA is a sympatomimetic CNS stimulant
bufoman said:
if you mean anandamide, it actually doesn't pass; and endogenous anandamide is rapidly metabolized
Yes agreed PEA endogenous role is unknown it is likely an agonist at one of the TAARs although that is about all that is known. It presence or abscense has been correlated wth many disorders. Research with MAOI and PEA do report subjective effects enhanced mood and such. I would certainly expect this as it is known PEA crosses the BBB, however it is rapidly metabolized by MAO-B. Thus if it could get to the brain it should have an effect. It would also be interesting to use RIMA and see what effect would occur. DMT was alos beleived to be metabolized by MAO-B (Suzuki et al. 1981)
See Brancheket al. Trace amine receptors as targets for novel therapeutics: legend, myth, fact.. .for a great review of PEA and other trace amine compounds.
See Brancheket al. Trace amine receptors as targets for novel therapeutics: legend, myth, fact.. .for a great review of PEA and other trace amine compounds.
Anandamide is rapidly metabolized however again it does cross the BBB. It has been shown to be active in mice via injection, similaur effects to THC and thus it must cross the BBB to exert effects on the CNS. I will cite sources in a minute. People reporting something orally inactive is not the same as not crossing the BBB i think this is where all this mix up is coming from. Check out the strucutre of anandamide and other endogenous cannabinoids they are derivitives of lipid membrane fatty acids.
the role of PEA and mood has been hypothesized for quite some time
in elevated levels, mania is prevalent; in lowered levels, depression.
there's certainly some connection to this intriguing compound
in elevated levels, mania is prevalent; in lowered levels, depression.
there's certainly some connection to this intriguing compound
Regulation by cannabinoid receptors of anandamide transport across the blood-brain barrier and through other endothelial cells
Auteur(s) / Author(s)
MACCARRONE Mauro (1 2) ; FIORI Anna (3) ; BARI Monica (1) ; GRANATA Filippo (4) ; GASPERI Valeria (5) ; EGLE DE STEFANO M. (4) ; FINAZZI-AGRO Alessandro (5) ; STROM Roberto (6) ;
Also see:
addiction-dirkh.blogspot.com
Anandamide induces overeating: mediation by central cannabinoid (CB1) receptors
There are many more just look on pubmed or google.
Auteur(s) / Author(s)
MACCARRONE Mauro (1 2) ; FIORI Anna (3) ; BARI Monica (1) ; GRANATA Filippo (4) ; GASPERI Valeria (5) ; EGLE DE STEFANO M. (4) ; FINAZZI-AGRO Alessandro (5) ; STROM Roberto (6) ;
Also see:
Anandamide: The Brain’s Own Marijuana
A blog about the science of addiction and drug research.
addiction-dirkh.blogspot.com
Anandamide induces overeating: mediation by central cannabinoid (CB1) receptors
There are many more just look on pubmed or google.
found this chemical breakdown of chocolate
regarding anandamide:
"Chocolate contains a substance known as anandamide which is a cannabinoid and is naturally produced in a brain. This chemical is responsible for the narcotic effect of marijuana, which produces a natural high. Anandamide locks itself to the protein receptor THC (tetrahydrocannabinol) on the membrane of cells and triggers a reaction inside the cells that makes us feel high.
Anandamide is broken down fast naturally by the body but chocolate contains two substances, N-oleoylethanolamine and N-linoleoylethaolamine, which are related to the brain lipid anandamide and inhibit the natural breakdown of anandamide, hence preserving the natural high. These substances also target the endogenous cannabinoid system of the brain, mimicking the psychotropic effects caused by plant-derived cannabinoid drugs either directly by activating the receptors or indirectly by increasing the anandamide levels in the brain.
These substances have several effects in humans:
* Decease pain perception
* change perception of time
* decrease hypomobility
*produce transient feeling of well being
*increase sensory properties of chocolate responsible for craving
Chocolate however contains significantly less anandamide in comparison to marijuana, and hence only a few of the THC receptors are activated and a global high is not achieved."
another controversial topic, as another study did not show any significant amount of the cannabinoid in chocolate
regarding anandamide:
"Chocolate contains a substance known as anandamide which is a cannabinoid and is naturally produced in a brain. This chemical is responsible for the narcotic effect of marijuana, which produces a natural high. Anandamide locks itself to the protein receptor THC (tetrahydrocannabinol) on the membrane of cells and triggers a reaction inside the cells that makes us feel high.
Anandamide is broken down fast naturally by the body but chocolate contains two substances, N-oleoylethanolamine and N-linoleoylethaolamine, which are related to the brain lipid anandamide and inhibit the natural breakdown of anandamide, hence preserving the natural high. These substances also target the endogenous cannabinoid system of the brain, mimicking the psychotropic effects caused by plant-derived cannabinoid drugs either directly by activating the receptors or indirectly by increasing the anandamide levels in the brain.
These substances have several effects in humans:
* Decease pain perception
* change perception of time
* decrease hypomobility
*produce transient feeling of well being
*increase sensory properties of chocolate responsible for craving
Chocolate however contains significantly less anandamide in comparison to marijuana, and hence only a few of the THC receptors are activated and a global high is not achieved."
another controversial topic, as another study did not show any significant amount of the cannabinoid in chocolate
The predominate cannabinoid receptor in the CNS is CB1 however CB2 is also present. The other compounds in chocolate oleamide and N-ethanol-linoleamide antagonise Fatty acid amide hydolysis (FAAH). FAAH breaks down anandamide and other endogneous cannabinoids. Thus these compounds are the equivalent of MAO I for endo-cannabinoids. However some data has shown that these compounds may them selves act as agonists at the CB receptors. More data is obviously needed. The source of the chocalate cedrtainly plays a role in the levels of the various chemcials. But it is possible that these compounds are responsible for some of the effectd from certain chocalate sources.