A discussion on the achievement of buddha hood

[unclesyd]

Wanted to pose a few questions to my fellow nexers about achieving buddha hood. As a buddhist is it not my/our primary goal to become a realized person, not just some enlightened state of mind, but the actual achievement of buddha hood. The questions I would like to pose are:

1. Do others believe this to be an actual possibility??

2. Is anyone(else) on this quest, and if so how close do you feel to be?

3. Does anyone else get repeated visions/messages/etc. that they are destined to be the vessel for our creator to come onto this world? I have read lots of experiences where people have great insights, and experiences where they have been at the foot of God, or even been God, but they seem totally different than my repeated experiences.

So let me start by answering my own questions,
1.- Yes I do believe this is possible. I believe we all have the ability to obtain christ consciousness/buddha hood. And I believe that only when one has obtained this will the consciousness of the whole world elevate to a degree to enlighten all.

2.- I am definitely on this quest for over ten years, and I feel close to this state(well lots closer than when I started). Almost all of my voyages during this time have centered on this fact. I try not to attach myself to these what I used to think were delusions, but what I have seen and experienced has to be real. And I guess my main purpose of this post is to see if anyone else has had these types of experiences over and over. With each ego death I feel closer to my goal. I have broken this curse, I have figured my way out of this maze, I have found myself with the things they cannot control, those things being thy fungus and mold.

3.-I feel that the creator will actually be re-born in me, onto his earth to set right all the wrongs that Satan(or evil forces in general) have put forth on his creation. And to liberate all beings from the bondage of their egos, and from this evil influence. Men will continue to have free will, but will choose to use it correctly in this enlightened state. No more hate, no more war.

I am interested to see what my fellow nexers think of this subject.
:idea:

*Have edited to display new ideas, which I have also done in a later comment somewhat.

 

[Hatersgunnahate]

what is budda hood and could you elaborate a little more for me?

 

[pau]

Yes! It appears many of us here, if not most, are on a path like that!
Not an original idea, but perhaps this state is not to be obtained, because we already are It (and It us). So with a little help from our friends in the plant kingdom, we might understand that a bit more clearly....the trick for me is not to forget it!

 

[BananaForeskin]

1. Yes.

2. I find myself to be on this path... although I am faaar away.

I think most folks on here are on that path, although more often than not it might be known by different names. Even though I wasn't too spiritually-minded before I became interested in entheogens, a recurring message of spice dreams was that I had the potential to be Jesus... I mean, that sounds totally crazy out of context, but the understanding is different than the face value of the terms. The idea that we all have the potential, myself included, to achieve Buddhahood/Christ state was clear. And not only clear, but necessary.

 

[Steely]

There is simply no difference from the happiness of a practicing Buddhist, or Buddha himself, than that of a materialistic dependent state of mind.

I have found there to be degree's of open mindedness, and happiness, but those degree's are the same throughout all paths in life.

If reaching, "Buddha-hood" means being happy with every aspect and fine detail of life, then it is merely easier to be happy all of the time.

1) Yes, in another sense.

2) I can't tell you where I am on some out there scale of how open minded I may be. Everything I do, and hear of I try to view from different perspectives. When something makes me angry (Which rarely occurs these days), I figure out how turn those foolish thoughts of rage into easily obtained laughter and happiness. Peoples vastly different perspectives, interpretations, and actions in this world make me laugh and smile, not confused or distraught.

The daily accomplishments I most strive for in life are patience, tolerance, open mindedness, and happiness.

 

[cellux]

I found there is an infinitely thin veil that separates "me" from THAT - where "me" is my particular, separated self and THAT is what you call buddhahood.

This veil is infinitely thin, but seems impossible to break or get through. There is a mechanism like a strait-jacket, where any mental moves made in an attempt to break through the veil make it more impenetrable. There is also a drive on the "me" part of the game which wants to penetrate the veil at all costs, and I cannot make it stop.

Most spiritual teachers say that buddhahood is achieved when these attempts to penetrate the veil stop (cessation of craving or desire in buddhist terms). I find that this is somehow connected to the acceptance of the possibility that the stuff available in the ever-present moment is completely fulfilling as it is. My hypothesis is that as soon as one gets freed from the drive to become enlightened, the energy which sustained the illusion can return to the center and instead of fueling the dreams of the future it endows the present moment with such a life and all-encompassing depth, that makes the here-and-now the same paradise which religions are talking about.

 

[burnt]

1- No I don't believe in enlightenment.

2- No I like pleasure and desire. Its what makes life fun.

 

[Swarupa]

As a few others have pointed out, it is ultimately impossible to achieve as you are already that.

I find Self-inquiry reveals this brilliantly, all we are doing is pulling the veils of the ego, the veils of desire.

The Buddha actually taught Self-inquiry himself, through questioning your own identity & ariving at the conclusion that anything you see 'can not be my self'

Anatta-lakkhana Sutta: The Discourse on the Not-self Characteristic

www.accesstoinsight.org

 

[unclesyd]

Thank you all for the wonderful comments. I will make a couple of edits in my original post, and I will also do that here.

Let me rephrase my (feel close to this state) comment, I feel a lot closer than when I started, but yet I know there is lots of work to be done. I still cling to bad habits, and do not engage myself fully in holy practice(i.e. i could meditate and read holy scriptures lots more). And actually lately I have had premonitions that Dec. 21, 2012 will be my great release unto this world. But of course this could be external stimuli invading my perceptions. But with each voyage I am told that indeed I am the seed of God. Which leads me to a third question,

3. Does anyone else get repeated visions/messages/etc. that they are destined to be the vessel for our creator to come onto this world? I have read lots of experiences where people have great insights, and experiences where they have been at the foot of God, or even been God, but they seem totally different than my repeated experiences.

I feel that the creator will actually be re-born in me, onto his earth to set right all the wrongs that Satan(or evil forces in general) have put forth on his creation. And to liberate all beings from the bondage of their egos, and from this evil influence. Men will continue to have free will, but will choose to use it correctly in this enlightened state. No more hate, no more war.

I believe that we are all capable of achieving this, but according to the voices, I have won the cosmic lottery.
Thank you all for sharing your comments on my delusions, wahahahaha :shock:

 

[jamie]

2- No I like pleasure and desire. Its what makes life fun.

:d lol burnt..me too:d
I think enlightenment is subjective, and is not about the void..it comes when one learns to consciousily take controll of the programming of theyre own mind..some of that programming can be trancended..but there is still a ton of things out there to persue and its these things that make the journey worth it..I find the persuit of true elegance in my life more appealing than sort of crawling away into a cave to meditate all alone until I die.

 

[cellux]

I am in the same boat as you, with these incredible visions of grandeur... Lately I grew quite suspicious of them, though. Nowadays I tend to think that I am sick in the mind, and these ideas are probably delusions covering up an innate fear which I could not unearth and overcome yet. As a rather antisocial being, who could never adequately adapt to the ways and requirements of western society, it seems likely to me that I use these fantasies as a substitute for that which I could not achieve in the "real world".

In this regard, I feel a deep connection to the late Philip K. Dick, who was also struggling with this dilemma of having a direct inner experience of a deeper reality, while having serious doubts about its validity and significance.

I cannot exclude the possibility that the thing which you are dreaming of can in fact become reality. But if you ask me, I'd leave the decision about these matters in the hands of God.

 

[BananaForeskin]

^^^

I think Cellux did a fine job of pointing out the insecurities of such a point of view as I hold, it is impossible to know what's real and what's not, and part of my brain always turns down any of these possibilities.

However, in response to some other bits, I hardly think achieving a state of buddhahood counts as denying or attempting to change one's self. It'd simply be a realization of one's potential.

And I also hardly think that achieving a spiritually penultimate state would mean giving up on the pleasures of life! It'd just mean finally being able to partake with a truly clear understanding! Although with a truly clear understanding, who wouldn't be like "Meh... fuck you guys... I'm going to the mountains." It's not supposed to be a denial of you the things you love, it's more that you enter a state where many things no longer have the importance they once did. I've always been reminded of a bit about quitting smoking: someone who simply hasn't been around a cigarette for a month hasn't quit smoking, the person who carries a pack around and never touches it has quit smoking.

The dilemma between spirituality and materialism (for lack of a better word) seems to be that the former holds the latter to be a delusion, and the latter holds the former to be a delusion. Another question: is that necessarily true? The fact that they both seem so solid to me says not... any ideas on how to combine these two viewpoints? Hmm... will check back in later...

 

[polytrip]

I don't think a permanent state of perfection is actually possible.
Life has it's up's and downs and a realistic aproach to achieving budha-hood would be, to just go through all these strugles in an as open and positive way as possible and to always continue reflecting on whether you're making the right choices and whether you're seeing things from the best possible perspective.

The only other option would be to withdraw from the world. And even then you can always get ulcers or something.

 

[cellux]

I don't think a permanent state of perfection is actually possible.

When I imagine such a state, I think of an attitude that sees everything as it is, without attaching judgment or personal like/dislike trips on it. It's like the ultimate scientific world view, which is not "contaminated" by any kind of pragmatic desire.

Some could say that this would be cold, lifeless and inhuman, but I think otherwise: such a "person" is totally participating in what is, actually, he/she can 100% participate exactly because he/she doesn't have any ego-related emotional baggage keeping him/her back any more.

This state would be perfect, despite being in constant change. Nothing could change this "witnessing" quality and its repercussions, once achieved.

(Btw, it's quite clear to me that this is not really a "state". What I'm talking about here involves a transcendence of time, or the world of states.)

 

[BananaForeskin]

^^^

Well said once again, Cellux.

 

[ragabr]

Cellux does a great job here.

Essentially, each of us manifests the Ultimate in our lives. These delusions of grandeur come from an inability to accept that here now. "What I am cannot be perfect, thus at some point in the future is when I will be a perfect incarnation." These ideas of Satan and evil forces within creation reinforce dualistic striving.

 

[LucidJ]

1- enlightenment is an absolute impossibility, and despite that we will all, every one of us, and every particle of matter in all of existence, awaken to pure consciousness.

There is no way i could explain why i think I know this.

The intra-dimensional-Multiverse is infinite. We are all (relativistically) at the center of the whole thing. when YOU wake up, the whole of creation will awake.
I know It doesn't make sense to say that the whole universe is about just you, but lo the mystery of paradox is real. The more logical we try to be about it the more inconsistent it will become (see Gödel's incompleteness theorem).
We travelers say "All is one" all the time, but few of us follow through with the ramifications of that statement.

2- When I was younger , 11, 16, 20... every once and awhile while doing nothing, maybe taking a rest, maybe sitting on the can.. i would suddenly be startled by existence. I would think "Holy crap! WTF is going on! i exist... this is crazy!" then be bewildered that everyone wasn't freaking out. I would manage to quell awareness of this particular factoid just in time to avoid the sure to follow flood of panic. I think it was something akin to Jean-Paul Sartre's "Nausea".

Now because i have experienced DMT and have had experiences like counting to the number "octo-tang", and other doosies that have pimp-slapped my mind to ever so slightly more awake, it is getting harder not to be enlightened.

But i promise to hold out for as long as I can, because, after all, that's the game we all agreed to isn't it? And I don't want to ruin the fun.

 

[unclesyd]

Again great comments guys, really loving the input. My last voyage I had a lot of doubt about the facts being presented, and for the last week have been in sort of a duh, what am I wasting my time and mind for????? But releasing some of my thoughts and experiences on this forum was like therapy(never really get to talk about subjects like this, friends would probably send me to the crazy bin I start talking about being God!!).

I ran an errand and this stuff was circling my mind, and clearing my head with a mantra I had a realization. That is I(we) cannot doubt my(our) enlightenment and liberation process and have it still be effective(obviously I suppose). I have also re-read for the umpteenth time the psychedelic experience, again picking up even more, while reinforcing a lot of my being. It is sooooo freeing not to have that doubt on my shoulders.

I have been told I will go threw great tests and challenges, a lot of them created by the devil(evil karmic forces), to see if I am worthy. I have conquered meth addiction, my anger problems, and now this doubt of myself along with many other trials and tribulations and I believe I have faired well.

I also came to the conclusion that I have two options.
1. Engross myself fully into this process that has been requested/commanded of me, becoming the reincarnate of the supreme personality of godhead onto this earth.

2. Engross myself fully into this process that has been requested/commanded of me, becoming insanely delusional eventually leading to my commitment to a mental institution(haha). Seriously though this path I am on has profoundly changed my life for the better and continues to do so. So even if I dont become the creator realized on this earth I will have made myself a better person. And that is of no small feet in itself.

And I think the first option is worth at least trying for, am I right?????


Thanks for listening and being my nexus therapy group. haha

 

[cellux]

That is I cannot doubt my enlightenment and liberation process and have it still be effective (obviously I suppose).

I remember this choice. Here is what happened after my decision to go with #1:

God made me realize that I am selfish because I didn't take into account the consequences of my "enlightenment" for others. Have you seen the Japanese anime "Serial Experiments: Lain"? That's a parable of exactly this process, finely communicating the inherent spiritual problems - highly recommended. A movie called "The Nines" also contains some useful hints. In short, while it may be true that you are the only being, paradoxically this is also not the case. If you become God, then you have certain "responsibilities" to go with that (it seems even God is subject to its own laws somehow), which means you have to find and live/sustain a solution to the equation which caters for everyone ( both "good" and "bad" ). If you go along this thought train, then you may arrive at the uncomfortable suspicion that the world is possibly even now the most perfectly balanced equation possible. (This is a quite tough nut to crack.)

The second thing that happened was that I was sent to the "dark night of the soul", where all these otherworldly hopes were methodically stripped away from me. I had to become nullified, with no spiritual support whatsoever. My current hypothesis is that one can become God only if one doesn't want to become God. (Or: a full cup cannot be poured into, therefore it must be emptied first.) Now I feel that being God means becoming an automaton in a sense, following an inner direction which is not of the ego, but comes from the necessities of some kind of spiritual law which governs the ways of creation. The fear we feel comes from our inability to apprehend how the world can be effortlessly "juggled" based on those laws, always keeping the balance as required. We think this must be done with the same faculties as what we use in our human form, and we feel that we are not up to this task at all. But God is a child at play. Go figure.

Here is an attempt to elucidate what I'm trying to talk about:

What happens here is that you wake up to this inner reality, and you look "out" into this shared space. Now imagine that every face you see on that picture belongs to another human being. Some of the faces are sleeping, others have their eyes open (these have already reconnected). These people are all living on the earth plane also, simultaneously with their existence in this timeless dimension. When someone wakes up, they get access to the shared information pool (God mind), and with their newly found abilities of perception (free-flowing intuition) they can sense information about the outer existence from this inner world.

Because this inner world is shared, it is a common "kingdom" of everyone. We could say that it is one, because the laws and reality witnessed by the various faces is one. There are no differences of perception in the inner realm, each one is part of the same group mind. But the particulars, the personalities behind the faces are different. What is connected in the inner realms, is unconnected in the outside world (or seems so). That's how the One can be simultaneously one and many.

Becoming God is nothing more than becoming aware of this other side of our existence and then living our life from that intuition coming from the Source ( the "Water of Life" ), instead of the ideas and judgments of the particular self.

 

[shunyatason]

You probably are delusional when it comes to thinking your the chosen one. That is just a construct of your of your mind and all structures are impermanent.. Meditate, maintain presence, let go of attatchments, don't worry about enlightenment, don't worry about your cosmic story, just be here now........breath, feel.....you are I am we are love...always have been always will be.....pain and personalities are illusion... time is an illusion.....i know it may seem like lame mainstream self help garbage but check out eckhart tolle power of now. or if you want something less secular alan watts zen: the supreme experience, or chogyam trungpa's path of the sacred warrior, or Suzuki's zen mind begginers mind.....