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Research Acacia floribunda - Workspace and information
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Research done by (or for) the DMT-Nexus community
CheeseCat
Esteemed member
Hey guys, here’s a few photos of an active narrow phyllode floribunda. I tested this floribunda several months ago with Syrian rue and also performed a successful extraction. I visited the tree again yesterday in the hope it might have seedpods.
Here’s a few observations… firstly, new phyllode growth is broad with 3 primary nerves while the older more mature phyllodes have become substantially narrower and darker coloured and almost lack any visible primary nerves (see photo 3 & 4).
I had a look at two other council planted floribundas nearby and although very similar, noted they didn’t exhibit the same broad phyllode growth or the same weeping foliage. I’m hoping this is significant and that the broader growth coupled with the pendulous stems are valid markers of the active narrow phyllode strain.
Photo 1 & 2 - The tree.
Photo 3 & 4 - Younger phyllode growth compared to older and distinctly narrower phyllode development.
Photo 4 & 5 - Anastomisation of younger phyllodes vs an older darker phyllode.
My thoughts are there’s possibly an active genetic variation within the common council floribunda species which is rarely in circulation. This may explain the limited results people are having with urban narrow phyllode floribunda. The broader phyllode growth and pendulous branchlets could be key when searching for active narrow phyllode strains, however the reason for this trees activity may be something far less obvious to the eye.
What do you guys think?
Here’s a few observations… firstly, new phyllode growth is broad with 3 primary nerves while the older more mature phyllodes have become substantially narrower and darker coloured and almost lack any visible primary nerves (see photo 3 & 4).
I had a look at two other council planted floribundas nearby and although very similar, noted they didn’t exhibit the same broad phyllode growth or the same weeping foliage. I’m hoping this is significant and that the broader growth coupled with the pendulous stems are valid markers of the active narrow phyllode strain.
Photo 1 & 2 - The tree.
Photo 3 & 4 - Younger phyllode growth compared to older and distinctly narrower phyllode development.
Photo 4 & 5 - Anastomisation of younger phyllodes vs an older darker phyllode.
My thoughts are there’s possibly an active genetic variation within the common council floribunda species which is rarely in circulation. This may explain the limited results people are having with urban narrow phyllode floribunda. The broader phyllode growth and pendulous branchlets could be key when searching for active narrow phyllode strains, however the reason for this trees activity may be something far less obvious to the eye.
What do you guys think?
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CheeseCat
Esteemed member
Here’s my little summary of some of the key points when identifying A floribunda. It has some of my own personal observations, but importantly ideas shared in this wonderful thread. The points below are based on the general classification that there are two main types of floribunda - narrow phyllode and broad phyllode. To make matters more complex it appears that within this classification also lies wild type strains and urban type strains.
Floribunda Checklist:
1. What type of A. floribunda is it?
Wild type - grows in its natural environment away from urbanisation.
Urban type (common cultivator) - grows in urban areas, seedlings obtained from nurseries and planted along walkways, motorways and reserves etc.
2. Phyllodes:
Smell - phyllodes can exhibit a pleasant grassy aroma (sweet)
Taste - fresh phyllodes have a grassy taste with a bitter finish (ranging from strong to subtle)
Narrow or broad
Soft & papery or leathery
Pendulous or less pendulous
Nerve count - 1-3
Longitudinal parallel veins - always
Tiny appressed hairs usually present (magnifying glass usually needed)
Absent basal gland
Colour of phyllodes - dark green or light green (sometimes a gradient of both)
3. Bark:
Smooth or textured
4. Trunk:
Single trunk or multi trunk
5. Flowers:
Pale lemon yellow
Blooms late June (NZ)
Seed pods (Nov - Jan)
6. Branches:
Pendulous or straight
7. Tree Form:
Shurb or classic tree
Weeping or non weeping
Dense/bushy or lanky/tall
*Floribunda is known to exhibit the above points in a variety of ways. The weeping varieties with phyllodes that are soft and papery seem to be the strongest candidates for true floribunda.
Floribunda Checklist:
1. What type of A. floribunda is it?
Wild type - grows in its natural environment away from urbanisation.
Urban type (common cultivator) - grows in urban areas, seedlings obtained from nurseries and planted along walkways, motorways and reserves etc.
2. Phyllodes:
Smell - phyllodes can exhibit a pleasant grassy aroma (sweet)
Taste - fresh phyllodes have a grassy taste with a bitter finish (ranging from strong to subtle)
Narrow or broad
Soft & papery or leathery
Pendulous or less pendulous
Nerve count - 1-3
Longitudinal parallel veins - always
Tiny appressed hairs usually present (magnifying glass usually needed)
Absent basal gland
Colour of phyllodes - dark green or light green (sometimes a gradient of both)
3. Bark:
Smooth or textured
4. Trunk:
Single trunk or multi trunk
5. Flowers:
Pale lemon yellow
Blooms late June (NZ)
Seed pods (Nov - Jan)
6. Branches:
Pendulous or straight
7. Tree Form:
Shurb or classic tree
Weeping or non weeping
Dense/bushy or lanky/tall
*Floribunda is known to exhibit the above points in a variety of ways. The weeping varieties with phyllodes that are soft and papery seem to be the strongest candidates for true floribunda.
Hey thanks for making that post CheeseCat 
That’s a good summary.. I’ll add a few things to the list.
Aside from the parallel longitudinal nerves (up to 6-7 minor longitudinal nerves between the prominent nerves) there should be minor to prominent anastomosing between them.. creating a “network”. Reticulating nerve networks not present on juvenile seedlings.. usually just 3-4 longitudinal nerves after the first few nodes. Just one nerve concurrent with edge of phyllode on first few phyllodes. Very difficult to tel the difference between true floribunda and hybrid/cultivar/possible subspecies at young age.
In Australia it usually flowers around August-September
The urban cultivars tend to display a few of the characteristics in isolation but don’t usually display them all as a whole
Pods straight to slightly curved - raised over and constricted between seeds.
Flowers two in axle of phyllodes.. 3-8cm long
Generally 3-8m in height.. I’ve seen some taller
An observation.. Growth habit and phyllode texture I think are prone to variance in differing landscape.. harsher and rockier landscapes seem to produce smaller bushier plants with slightly firmer foliage while more moist areas particularly in sandy creeks/looser soil produce more abundant papery/pendulous foliage
When we reach a complete consensus on the key points of ID I will attach it to the OP
Look forward to hearing more :thumb_up:
That’s a good summary.. I’ll add a few things to the list.
Aside from the parallel longitudinal nerves (up to 6-7 minor longitudinal nerves between the prominent nerves) there should be minor to prominent anastomosing between them.. creating a “network”. Reticulating nerve networks not present on juvenile seedlings.. usually just 3-4 longitudinal nerves after the first few nodes. Just one nerve concurrent with edge of phyllode on first few phyllodes. Very difficult to tel the difference between true floribunda and hybrid/cultivar/possible subspecies at young age.
In Australia it usually flowers around August-September
The urban cultivars tend to display a few of the characteristics in isolation but don’t usually display them all as a whole
Pods straight to slightly curved - raised over and constricted between seeds.
Flowers two in axle of phyllodes.. 3-8cm long
Generally 3-8m in height.. I’ve seen some taller
An observation.. Growth habit and phyllode texture I think are prone to variance in differing landscape.. harsher and rockier landscapes seem to produce smaller bushier plants with slightly firmer foliage while more moist areas particularly in sandy creeks/looser soil produce more abundant papery/pendulous foliage
When we reach a complete consensus on the key points of ID I will attach it to the OP
Look forward to hearing more :thumb_up:
Just saw your photos.. yes that ticks the boxes! .. I think it is the variability in foliage that is a promising indicator.. the type seems to be less uniform in its foliage. And the vertical oriented branches with the weeping ends again is present. Good observation about the fresh growth vs the older growth..
Thanks for the photos and congrats on the positive result! That’s a really beautiful tree.. how is the extract? Wondering whether anyone else finds the floribunda extract quite physically “heavy” and slow. I went and smoked some eztract sitting under the recent tree I had success with.. was incredible sitting amongst them in that space
Great contributions CheeseCat!
Long live the tryptamine willow and it’s gentle energy
below is the juvenile phyllodes.. notice the much more simple longitudinal nerves.. no anastomoses
Thanks for the photos and congrats on the positive result! That’s a really beautiful tree.. how is the extract? Wondering whether anyone else finds the floribunda extract quite physically “heavy” and slow. I went and smoked some eztract sitting under the recent tree I had success with.. was incredible sitting amongst them in that space
Great contributions CheeseCat!
Long live the tryptamine willow and it’s gentle energy
below is the juvenile phyllodes.. notice the much more simple longitudinal nerves.. no anastomoses
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I did a couple times going back a number of years but don't recall how the yield was affected. Extract seemed a little more bitter.
Ok.. It seems like we have more or less settled on some basic things to avoid/look for with Acacia floribunda. Moving forward I'm going to suggest we orient the conversation in a more horticultural direction .. as that should be the priority - using the things we have figured out to best guide in collecting the right seed and cultivating the tryptamine willow
It would be a shame if this tree just ended up another disposable resource in the wild harvester's deck of trees to exploit. Seems that the 'type' floribunda is really not all that common when you take all the cultivars/hybrids from the equation.
So I'm gonna get the ball rolling and share a few photos of my young floribunda.. most are offspring of the tree in the last photo.. which is the same tree as in photos 1 and 4 in the OP.. I also have some of the tree pictured in the 2nd photo growing.
They were germinated via hot water scarification until swollen, sowed into a mix of coarse river sand, peat moss and perlite at a ratio of about 65:30:5..
Seeds were placed on top of medium in germination tray, covered with 0.5-1cm of mix.. and then a thin layer of granite/quartz gravel on top. The reason I add the gravel is to anchor the seeds to prevent them from pushing themselves out of the soil. Once sprouted I left them for 1-2 weeks before potting on into forestry tubes.. they were little babies when winter hit.. so I lost many. The ones that survived split into offshoots from the main stem which died.. in September they would have been no more than 7cm in height.. many didn’t have any phyllodes yet... and now they are strong and healthy. Lesson learnt was not to germinate stuff when winter is approaching.
But I think it is testament to how hardy and quickly they grow.. all these plants survived -9 nights as tiny seedlings. They went dormant for winter and started showing signs of life again in September.. that’s not even 5 months and they're power-housing it now. In a few years they should be getting to a size where they are useful for tryptamines. That’s why I recommend Acacia floribunda as a plant to grow..
I have started hardening them off, as the stems were getting quite weak.. I left them out a little too long though and caught them just in the nick of time as the new growth started to burn in the sun. Now the phyllodes are much more concurrent with the stems.. whereas before they were a little more 'free standing' with green stems. Again.. notice how there is no reticulated nerves in very young plants. It may be a couple years until they really start displaying the characteristics we have been discussing.
And then theres some other pretty wattles in there too the majority are grown from seed
Would love to see some photos of people’s floribunda!
It would be a shame if this tree just ended up another disposable resource in the wild harvester's deck of trees to exploit. Seems that the 'type' floribunda is really not all that common when you take all the cultivars/hybrids from the equation.
So I'm gonna get the ball rolling and share a few photos of my young floribunda.. most are offspring of the tree in the last photo.. which is the same tree as in photos 1 and 4 in the OP.. I also have some of the tree pictured in the 2nd photo growing.
They were germinated via hot water scarification until swollen, sowed into a mix of coarse river sand, peat moss and perlite at a ratio of about 65:30:5..
Seeds were placed on top of medium in germination tray, covered with 0.5-1cm of mix.. and then a thin layer of granite/quartz gravel on top. The reason I add the gravel is to anchor the seeds to prevent them from pushing themselves out of the soil. Once sprouted I left them for 1-2 weeks before potting on into forestry tubes.. they were little babies when winter hit.. so I lost many. The ones that survived split into offshoots from the main stem which died.. in September they would have been no more than 7cm in height.. many didn’t have any phyllodes yet... and now they are strong and healthy. Lesson learnt was not to germinate stuff when winter is approaching.
But I think it is testament to how hardy and quickly they grow.. all these plants survived -9 nights as tiny seedlings. They went dormant for winter and started showing signs of life again in September.. that’s not even 5 months and they're power-housing it now. In a few years they should be getting to a size where they are useful for tryptamines. That’s why I recommend Acacia floribunda as a plant to grow..
I have started hardening them off, as the stems were getting quite weak.. I left them out a little too long though and caught them just in the nick of time as the new growth started to burn in the sun. Now the phyllodes are much more concurrent with the stems.. whereas before they were a little more 'free standing' with green stems. Again.. notice how there is no reticulated nerves in very young plants. It may be a couple years until they really start displaying the characteristics we have been discussing.
And then theres some other pretty wattles in there too
the majority are grown from seedWould love to see some photos of people’s floribunda!
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CheeseCat
Esteemed member
Man, what a beautiful setup! This thread just keeps getting better and better. Seeing all those healthy pinnate leaves and phyllodes is wondrous. I really hope to achieve something similar to this. Great idea to introduce the horticultural side of things :thumb_up: your knowledge is next level, Acacian. I planted my first seeds (ever) in November and now have some little acuminata seedlings underway...love watching them grow. I hope to plant some floribunda seeds very soon.
I'm sure I'll have a bunch more question for you but one question that comes to mind is do you inoculate your seeds? (I used soil from an established acacia in my seedling mix as per communacacian's youtube video).
I'm sure I'll have a bunch more question for you but one question that comes to mind is do you inoculate your seeds? (I used soil from an established acacia in my seedling mix as per communacacian's youtube video).
Thanks CheeseCat! Am really happy with how the greenhouse is going. Fingers crossed they all do ok next winter.. I think being more established should be fine - but some of the coastal species I have a little anxiety about. This green house is much better at retaining heat than the previous cheap one I bought though.
In the past I have inoculated seeds in the soaking stage like in communacacian's video..but prefer to just add a little of the soil into my medium when I pot them up now. This way I can do the paper towell method without everything going moldy - which will likely happen when there is dirt and bacteria on the cloth.. that method tends to have a better germination rate than direct sowing - which I reserve for dealing with large amounts of seed. If using damp paper towell to sprout seeds then I like to keep everything as sterile as possible.
Would love to see your acuminata seedlings! I am about to start a thread where people can share their acacia growing journeys.. so pop them in when its up and running
In the past I have inoculated seeds in the soaking stage like in communacacian's video..but prefer to just add a little of the soil into my medium when I pot them up now. This way I can do the paper towell method without everything going moldy - which will likely happen when there is dirt and bacteria on the cloth.. that method tends to have a better germination rate than direct sowing - which I reserve for dealing with large amounts of seed. If using damp paper towell to sprout seeds then I like to keep everything as sterile as possible.
Would love to see your acuminata seedlings! I am about to start a thread where people can share their acacia growing journeys.. so pop them in when its up and running
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wattlez
Rising Star
Amazing photos acacian!! Love to see the young acacias. Beautiful plants, very rewarding to grow them.
My floribundas are still negative with tryptamine results for now, however i noticed the stems went a deep red/pink/purple colour over the past few months. It seems the taller they get, the more they "weep" but I can clearly see their top growth still chasing the sun. Phyllodes are becoming less stiff and more papery as the trees are growing- Will get some pictures up close when the weather stabilises and the pests stop trying to snack on them... Feel like I have been promising them for too long now!
Thread seems to be doing really well with all the additional input we are getting aswell!
My floribundas are still negative with tryptamine results for now, however i noticed the stems went a deep red/pink/purple colour over the past few months. It seems the taller they get, the more they "weep" but I can clearly see their top growth still chasing the sun. Phyllodes are becoming less stiff and more papery as the trees are growing- Will get some pictures up close when the weather stabilises and the pests stop trying to snack on them... Feel like I have been promising them for too long now!
Thread seems to be doing really well with all the additional input we are getting aswell!
Hey Wattlez.. good to see you back
post some pics of your floribunda!
I think red stems is not a reliable indicator of tryptamines with floribunda or in general to be honest.. have seen plenty of inactive trees with reddish stems
post some pics of your floribunda!
I think red stems is not a reliable indicator of tryptamines with floribunda or in general to be honest.. have seen plenty of inactive trees with reddish stems
wattlez
Rising Star
Always lurking around
I mention the red stems because I have two sets of floribundas:
1: Planted in good soil as "hedging" so they had room to grow. (Over 6 feet tall now)
2: Planted in a tight line in worse soil- Here, I had a spare handful of seeds I boiled and didn't have room to seed them individually. These are about 2 feet tall in a clump.
The stems reddened on them all at the same time, so age/weather was the main cause of that change, instead of size. I am no expert with plants, so I figure I would put my observations/data here so we have more data to go off- I do think I am growing a different subtype of acacia/floribunda (as mentioned in PMs, my seeds were acquired from an online shop).
I can definitely see that your floribundas have a droopy look from a young age, and it looks like the phyllodes are droopy, whereas mine are more stiff and it seems to be the actual branches drooping more than the phyllodes.
For data, I am assuming for now that mine are negative on tryptamine yields (unless in trace amounts). We will see if this changes over the coming years!
I mention the red stems because I have two sets of floribundas:
1: Planted in good soil as "hedging" so they had room to grow. (Over 6 feet tall now)
2: Planted in a tight line in worse soil- Here, I had a spare handful of seeds I boiled and didn't have room to seed them individually. These are about 2 feet tall in a clump.
The stems reddened on them all at the same time, so age/weather was the main cause of that change, instead of size. I am no expert with plants, so I figure I would put my observations/data here so we have more data to go off- I do think I am growing a different subtype of acacia/floribunda (as mentioned in PMs, my seeds were acquired from an online shop).
I can definitely see that your floribundas have a droopy look from a young age, and it looks like the phyllodes are droopy, whereas mine are more stiff and it seems to be the actual branches drooping more than the phyllodes.
For data, I am assuming for now that mine are negative on tryptamine yields (unless in trace amounts). We will see if this changes over the coming years!
I still await the promised photos 8)
I actually noticed the stems went red on mine recently just from a couple days of direct sun. The stems also got harder.. unfortunately in the trajectory of the bend.. so might stake them to re-orient the stems a little. I have been rotating them as they are gravitating towards the sunnier part of the greenhouse.
I wouldn't give up on them just yet.. might need to mature a little before producing the desired tryptamines. 6 foot is still quite young. I can also confirm that young active type can also have quiet stiff foliage at a young age.. is very difficult to tell much about them at such a young age .. at least from my end.
Below is young 'true' type.. to me it is indistinguishable from the common nursery varieties. None of the key taxanomic traits are present at this age.. they are always like narrow needles.
I might be about to embarrass myself and invent a new word here but I would almost class floribunda as having 'diphyllodes' between young and mature age. Some Acacia, even after producing their first phyllodes, will produce a different style phyllode in early stages of development.. often you will see plants starting with broad phyllodes which narrow out with age. Others will do the opposite.. floribunda the latter.
I actually noticed the stems went red on mine recently just from a couple days of direct sun. The stems also got harder.. unfortunately in the trajectory of the bend.. so might stake them to re-orient the stems a little. I have been rotating them as they are gravitating towards the sunnier part of the greenhouse.
I wouldn't give up on them just yet.. might need to mature a little before producing the desired tryptamines. 6 foot is still quite young. I can also confirm that young active type can also have quiet stiff foliage at a young age.. is very difficult to tell much about them at such a young age .. at least from my end.
Below is young 'true' type.. to me it is indistinguishable from the common nursery varieties. None of the key taxanomic traits are present at this age.. they are always like narrow needles.
I might be about to embarrass myself and invent a new word here but I would almost class floribunda as having 'diphyllodes' between young and mature age. Some Acacia, even after producing their first phyllodes, will produce a different style phyllode in early stages of development.. often you will see plants starting with broad phyllodes which narrow out with age. Others will do the opposite.. floribunda the latter.
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CheeseCat
Esteemed member
Hey guys, it’s been a while! I thought I’d share my latest results with floribunda. I managed to extract a transparent looking goo that is active. I vaped a few low doses but didn’t really enjoy the come up so thought I’d try making changa. I used a blend of Aya leaf, calendula, passionflower and peppermint. The experience is now really smooth and very dreamy. Closed eye visuals are only vague at the current doses I’m taking but the physical sensations and the altered headspace are present - quite enjoyable indeed.
It’s quite a stark difference from changa to drinking a brew. It’s almost as if they are two different psychedelics. Does anyone else get a strange, slightly unhinged head space when initially vaping DMT? I’m not sure if its due to dabbling with lower doses or if its because its better suited with an MAOI...
I'm incredibly stoked to have gotten this far with a successful extraction! (Cheers, acacian!)
It’s quite a stark difference from changa to drinking a brew. It’s almost as if they are two different psychedelics. Does anyone else get a strange, slightly unhinged head space when initially vaping DMT? I’m not sure if its due to dabbling with lower doses or if its because its better suited with an MAOI...
I'm incredibly stoked to have gotten this far with a successful extraction!
(Cheers, acacian!)Attachments
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Great work and congratulations CheeseCat! A clear colourless extract could indicate a cleaner alkaloid profile. Did you notice much different in effects to the other ones you had success with?
CheeseCat
Esteemed member
I only have one other successful extraction to compare to really which was the limonene extract that I vaped a while ago as DMT acetate. It was similar in effect but unfortunately it didn’t vape well on the e-mesh so I converted the acetate to freebase but then added way too many herbs for changa and could no longer feel any effect. My other two extracts were of misidentified floribunda that yielded no effect but were great practice runs.
This recent flori extract is from the tree in post #82.
Acacian, I think I'm starting to see why you love this tree so much
This recent flori extract is from the tree in post #82.
Acacian, I think I'm starting to see why you love this tree so much
With floribunda I really enjoy the experience most from just vaping the extract as is.. is cleaner feeling. I think since floribunda already has a pretty full spectrum feel, diluting it further with different herbs and their combustion products sort of clouds the experience a little.I only have one other successful extraction to compare to really which was the limonene extract that I vaped a while ago as DMT acetate. It was similar in effect but unfortunately it didn’t vape well on the e-mesh so I converted the acetate to freebase but then added way too many herbs for changa and could no longer feel any effect. My other two extracts were of misidentified floribunda that yielded no effect but were great practice runs.
This recent flori extract is from the tree in post #82.
Acacian, I think I'm starting to see why you love this tree so much
In the GVG goes really nice.. it's voice is a little easier to hear.. just to get a bit cryptic
And yeah.. it is a magical species to work with when it allows you through its gates. I find it endlessly more fascinating than the more pure dmt containing acacias. Really need to get some extracts tested soon just in a very busy time of my life. But can confirm deep breakthrough goodness of recent flori extracts.. the form up here in northern NSW is a pretty powerful plant teacher
Thanks for the updates CheeseCat.. its great to see someone pioneer this species in New Zealand
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