Research Acacia floribunda - Workspace and information

[CheeseCat]

Thanks Acacian! This extract is from post #24 and is the broader phyllode variety. Phyllodes have a papery matte texture with no visible hairs. The trunk bark has quite a rough exterior (due to age?) and the flowers are a lemon yellow colour, pale but still quite bright. The trunk is multi stemmed, a large prostrate style tree. That’s about all the details I can think of. I plan to go back soon to make sure I haven’t missed anything, hopefully it has some seed pods too!

I’ve been re-reading some of your earlier posts and your focus and attention to detail for this plant is really impressive!

Do you think having the DMT acetate exposed to air for prolonged periods will degrade the DMT? I really like the idea of infusing it into some floribunda phyllodes though, great idea!

What I’m really excited about is the flower extraction from this tree. The water washes have resulted in an exquisitely deep red colour!

 

[acacian]

Good stuff CheeseCat

That looks consistent with the active varieties I have tested.. but with its own character.. as is usually the case! Would you mind if I added your photo to the gallery of active floribunda in the OP?

I think the amount of time you would allow for it to hopefully solidify shouldn't do your extract any harm.. maybe a little oxidation.. I would keep it indoors at least so its not in the wind. Curious why you are storing it as acetate? Is it for stability or taking orally? If vaporizing I would convert to freebase..

I'm excited by the prospect of active floribunda maybe being quite easy to find in New Zealand.. like you say in an earlier post there is most likely less hybridization with other acacia over there.. so may be closer to the earlier known type.. its a bit trickier in Australia with this species and I think you and nen hit the nail on the head with hybridization being the likely culprit.

Interesting to note the tree like growth habit.. and once again the more brown trunk bark seems to be present in the active types

Are you planning on testing some other specimens?

 

[Animistic]

Great thread. I might not be able to start straight away, about to move to a whole new area, but floribunda is a plant I hold dearly and I'd enjoy lending a hand to understanding it all a bit better. I'm also a splitter, to hell with the lumpers and their blurry glasses!

I have grown the commercial floribunda with dense flowers, thin, short phyllodes and can confirm no actives (material was 5yrs old when harvested). I will see if I can get my hands on some floribunda from South coast NSW which was quite unlike other floribunda I have seen before. Phyllodes were exceptionally hairy but won't be able to get a sample until March I believe. They're all around though, I saw an interesting looking stand that had thicker longer phyllodes but they were all babies on-top of a small ridge on the central coast.

As for extraction tek, maybe it's a good idea to compare notes? I acidify/cook with vinegar, filter, base with naoh, pull with xylene, backsalt xylene with vinegar water, rebase and pull with Shellite. This produces a much cleaner extract rather than goo which isn't necessarily what we are after but if I was full spectrum I usually go for a brew.

Anyways, thanks Acacian for starting the thread. Long live the acacia!

 

[CheeseCat]

Go for it Acacian, the photos from post #24 & #61 are the same tree, add away! About the DMT acetate...I've read several posts where folks have smoked DMT acetate either on herbs or as a goo. I realise it might not be recommended but thought I'd see for myself what it was like. The main appeal was that it reduced the tek time. Eliminating the sodium carbonate and IPA step also appealed as I was worried I was getting small amounts of sodium carbonate in the IPA pulls. I have converted some to freebase though which still needs testing properly.

Actually, I recently found some Acacia longissima (I think) which I'll try soon. From a distance I mistook it for floribunda. The phyllodes are less uniform, larger with a bent sickle hook shape to some of them.

I think comparing teks is a great idea TheAwakening :thumb_up:

 

[acacian]

Thanks CheeseCat..

TheAwakening.. Sounds like some cool specimens around where you are.. I suspect most wild coastal floribunda is probably pretty good. Your method should work fine.. remember pulling with shellite you will probably lose some of the alkaloids that make floribunda what it is.. the plant has a gentle energy of its own and it’s unique alkaloid profile represents this.. use shellite and you probably will just end up with a more bog standard dmt extract..

My extraction varies.. I played around a lot with this plant as I lived in close proximity to some good varieties for a while..it depends on whether your using phyllodes or stem/twig/branch bark.. phyllodes I usually ended up using heat because of all the chlorophyll.. I was never comfortable with a bright green ethanol solution. The latter I jived a lot with soaking material in ethanol, water and vinegar for initial extraction .. I liked the slow gentle approach. I would soak for a week, filter and reduce on as low heat as possible, decant/filter again, make basic and pull with a non selective NP solvent, rinse with sodium carb solution and evap solvent. I’ve done the dry IPA tek too and got beautiful needles one time with this species.

Phyllodes I usually did the standard A/B.. extract is more yellow and a little more “oily” from phyllodes but is fine.. I usually soaked onto some acacia phyllode. Use twig/stem for cleanest results.. I would only use bark from a branch if you can find one fallen as no one likes having limbs hacked off.

Standard A/B works fine for floribunda.. as an exanmple:

- simmer material x 3 filtering each simmer meticulously
- Combine and reduce to a workable size
- Decant in fridge over night, pour off liquid and filter again
- Optionally defat.. but no need with floribunda
- Make basic ph 11-12 and allow to react for a little while
- Pull with NP solvent.. Naptha not recommended as this plant has other goodness in there. I always used toluene/xylene .. recently made the change to DCM.. is faster evap and wider spectrum pulling.. has its own complications so needs learning.. at least imo..

naptha extracts just feel like clean dmt. Personally I think it betrays the Acacia slightly to decide that only one of its alkaloids is of use - and wasting the others

CheeseCat.. would be interested to see your suspected longissima.. if you feel like popping a pic in the id thread

 

[acacian]

Recent results on dwarf variety from post 21 yielded a slightly psychoactive extract.. seems to be no DMT at this point. Will test again when it’s not in flower.

 

[wattlez]

Awesome stuff CheeseCat! Thanks for posting pictures and providing extra details, great to see you got a good result. The floribunda looks awesome in the picture! Beautiful tree.

I've noticed my floribundas now are getting red stems as they are growing- interesting to see.
Will post some pictures when I give them a trim eventually.


Good to see discussions on extraction methodology too for reliability of results.

 

[CheeseCat]

Thanks for the insight into your workflow, Acacian. I caught up on some of your other bioassays in earlier posts too. It's definitely helpful to see what other people's results are. Interesting looking extract from your dwarf variety!

I'll post some A. longissima photos along with some possible A. maidenii (unique seed pods with glossy phyllodes?) to the ID thread soon.

Thanks Wattlez, it's an awesome tree, I was super stoked to find it. Acacia have been on my mind a lot this year and they just keep appearing. Looking forward to seeing your pictures. The redness in stems and phyllodes isn't too uncommon in trees in general during spring so it might not necessarily be indicative of an active species but who knows!

 

[acacian]

Your welcome.. its an ever evolving process. Differen't Acacia species behave differently to one another so isn't a one fits all 'tek' kinda plant.. that is for sure

 

[acacian]

Oh, and TheAwakening.. post 65 I was also replying to you I just realized I addressed the whole post to CheeseCat by accident.. thanks for your input, kind words and welcome to the willow thread Looking forward to hearing what you can contribute

and good to get some more confirmation on the inactivity of commercial strains - your experiments are very much appreciated.. splitters all the way!

 

[brokedownpalace10]

- Pull with NP solvent.. Naptha not recommended as this plant has other goodness in there. I always used toluene/xylene .. recently made the change to DCM.. is faster evap and wider spectrum pulling.. has its own complications so needs learning.. at least imo..

naptha extracts just feel like clean dmt. Personally I think it betrays the Acacia slightly to decide that only one of its alkaloids is of use - and wasting the others

Indeed. What do you think of Heptane? And, could one freeze precipitate with it and still preserve the NMT with the DMT?

 

[acacian]

Hey brokendownpalace10,
I have no experience with Heptane but suspect it maybe more selective than toluene, xylene DCM etc.. as far as I know Naptha holds some nmt but not sure how much per ml. I’d probably pull with one of the other solvents I used and then think about cleaning your extract up if you need to

Floribunda isn’t a plant that really carries much impurity as far as I have experienced.. defat pulls pretty much nothing. The toffee like consistency is probably due to other alkaloids so I would leave them in there and attempt crystalization with something that won’t remove them

 

[acacian]

A little Christmas joy from Acacia floribunda..

Positive test on a specimen from confirmed native population in NSW.. pretty much identical in characteristics to previous actives discussed

Mature trees very tall compared to popular cultivars.. I'd estimate some were between 8-10m high. Tree like habit mostly. Foliage highly variable within single trees but the overall habit particularly in healthy specimens is classic floribunda. Phyllodes alternate down the stem/branch in a way that causes branch to 'give in' and bend at the tops.. meaning many branches growing upwards will terminate in a pendulous habit. Foliage tended to occur in more sudden bursts at ends of branches in less healthy specimens that aren't nourished by waterways.. but generally angled concurrent with the stem.. usually very papery with appressed hairs. Quite prominent anastomosing nerves. Creek side specimens all were bigger, healthier and carried more of a magic..

Pods straight to strongly curved.. coiled when opened. Raised over and constricted between seeds

Seeds light to dark brown

Extract as usual a clearish yellow oil.. definitely DMT in there

As we have pretty good idea about what the positive ones look like.. would like to focus for now on defining inactive varieties.. which I am finding a tougher task. The 'type' has some established consistencies.. what consistencies do we know of the inactive trees being used?

Merry Christmas to all you nexians and acacians afar

 

[CheeseCat]

Merry Xmas to you too Acacian! Congrats on finding those trees, they look beautiful (particularly shot 3). I had a little discovery myself. It’s a floribunda that is of the finer narrow phyllode variety. I’m not sure if it’s active yet but will hopefully get around to testing soon (it’s a very pretty floribunda that I’d love to grow either way). I was really stoked to find seed pods on it. The first photo the pods were still green but by the time I returned a month later, they were looking ready.

 

[acacian]

Nice looking plant CheeseCat

will be very interested to see how you go with it.. very few positive reports on narrow phyllode specimens getting around the net. All I can recall is a report going back 10 years from nexus member VitalStatistix who had good results from some council planted ones.. and another from nen which didn't go into great detail. This species is quite variable even in one stand of trees.. heck.. even within one tree foliage varies a lot (with the active type). Common cultivar variety has a certain uniformity in its foliage that isn't there with the known yielders.. should these be classed as differen't species? Probably..

 

[CheeseCat]

The thing I like about the narrow phyllode variety is that it's really easy to identify - a good starting point for new researchers. I do hold some hope for this strain. My first (and only) experience drinking acacia and rue successfully was with a council planted narrow phyllode floribunda.

Agreed, there's definitely a uniformity to the foliage, a very organised presentation with a hint of pendulous foliage at the top of the tree. The bark exterior is particularly smooth too. I'll definitely report back on this one, just need to get through the silly season first

 

[acacian]

It sounds like New Zealand might be a bit of a hot spot for good floribunda

 

[acacian]

Also to note on botanist confirmed floribunda in it's native area.. phyllodes are consistently soft and papery. 3-4 prominent nerves with several minor longitudinal nerves anastomosing.

see below

 

[nen888]

..you are blessed acacian ...

Re correct identification of floribunda, based on the Type

Basically, with each species there needs to be at least one characteristic that is unique to the species..

In the case of floribunda, it is this:
the phyllodes have 1-3 prominent veins, with 6-12 smaller veins in between, are soft/thin, and hang pendulously from the stem (this is not the same as the weight of a stem making the phyllodes hang down) ...it must have this (before considering flowers, pods etc)

IMO some of the examples posted in here are not floribunda..while there may be one or more prominent veins, the fine vein structure is different (like longifolia), as is the texture

Despite some attempts to lump various trees resembling it together, Acacia floribunda is essentially native to the Great Dividing Range and to the coast in Qld/nsw.. The populations in western Victoria are native, but in Eastern Victoria are not, they are naturalised. Same WA,SA.

It is still not common enough that mass wild harvesting could take place.

I think really people need to drop the idea that you would wild harvest any acacia in native environment..If things in Australia like Macadamia, Lemon Myrtle or Tea Tree industries were wild harvesting, it would have been over for those species in the wild some time ago..

At least some people into entheogens have land, or have resources they could contribute..Grow them! Or understand karma

thanks acacian, cheesecat and others for the ongoing research...

 

[acacian]

As always, thanks for your perspectives nen

It feels like the floribunda code is in the process of finally being cracked! ..and that the answer all along was quite simple

and re: wild harvesting .. floribunda was originally put forth as a sustainable alternative to some of the more sensitive and overharvested species - in part because of its good phyllode content.. but I think the main appeal ethics-wise was that it was mass planted by councils in many urban areas throughout Australia.. so harvest needn't take place in delicate ecosystems on native populations.

but..

unfortunately, the commonly planted cultivar marked as floribunda isn't the tryptamine source many were hoping - so the good type specimens are far less common when this is taken into account and focus should be on cultivation.. otherwise it could meet the fate of species like obtuse. All the great things about this species are precisely what make it a great ally in cultivation. And I think - of the known tryptamine acacia - people will probably find it the most straightforward to grow.

And being such a fast grower, we can produce our own sustainable seed banks and alkaloid sources in a short period of time. And again, it is versatile in the climates it can be grown.. from heavy frost to long periods of drought. Don't let their gentle, soft energy fool you.. they are tough trees!