Altered states and old age

[Fruit is life]

I have a question or a topic I am curious about, that is, has anybody who has used psychedelics deeply for long periods of time over decades etc, found their experiences to negatively or just generally change in any qualtive manner with their increasing age, relating to their own mind and what not?

Has anybody found these things become harder to work with as we get older?

I would imagine that childeren would be vastly more sensitive and capable of working with these states then much older people for example, anyone here been using psychs since they were young and have the experience to compare?

For me I am still very young and haven't been using psychedelics for many years, so I am very curious as to what veteran users or just long time users might have to say on this topic

 

[Grey Fox]

I'm in my early 40's now. First tripped on LSD at 18. Experimented with LSD and a little bit of shrooms for a few years. Then took a long break until my early 30's. Been going strong with shrooms and cactus since then.

As I age I notice that I need less dosage to get a strong effect. Feels like I have become more sensitive to (or aware of) the change in conciousness from psychedelics. Even at lower doses, the experiences still feel profound and impactful.

I also notice that the psychedelic headspace has become more "familiar" feeling, and less intimidating and frightening. I think that our species - and possibly even species that came before us - have long experimented / journeyed with these medicines. I believe that it is a normal part of human behavior to alter consciousness. I sometimes wonder, How many generations of my ancestors have tripped? Why does this altered headspace feel like it fits like an old pair of shoes? It just seems like the ideal perspective from which to figure out certain things. I believe that this is no coincidence.

And so, as I age - and continue to explore consciousness through these medicines - it all becomes more "normal" to me... just another normal part of life. Just as I imagine it was for countless generations beforehand. Its just a natural, intuitive way to figure things out and find balance and have fun. Its really not even that big of a deal. Its just a normal human thing to do. And the older I get, the more comfortable it becomes, for me.

 

[Fruit is life]

That's really cool, and good to hear.. Interesting you have noticed an increase in sensitivity, I wonder if it has to do with age or whether it has to do with frequent use changing 5ht brain receptors or brain wiring or something, like long term ayahuasca drinkers showing to have healthier brains and overall better cognition etc

Either way..I say an increase in sensitivity is 100% positive and something I can look forward to with age hopefully..

And I completely agree, not only do I think our ancestors were accessing altered states but there normal state might have been an altered state..and what we access with psychs is merely a glimpse of our incredibly divine and natural ancestral state of being..who knows

 

[AwearyGhost]

That's really cool, and good to hear.. Interesting you have noticed an increase in sensitivity, I wonder if it has to do with age or whether it has to do with frequent use changing 5ht brain receptors or brain wiring or something, like long term ayahuasca drinkers showing to have healthier brains and overall better cognition etc

Either way..I say an increase in sensitivity is 100% positive and something I can look forward to with age hopefully..

And I completely agree, not only do I think our ancestors were accessing altered states but there normal state might have been an altered state..and what we access with psychs is merely a glimpse of our incredibly divine and natural ancestral state of being..who knows

this was a wonderful read.

 

[endlessness]

I'm in my early 40's now. First tripped on LSD at 18. Experimented with LSD and a little bit of shrooms for a few years. Then took a long break until my early 30's. Been going strong with shrooms and cactus since then.

As I age I notice that I need less dosage to get a strong effect. Feels like I have become more sensitive to (or aware of) the change in conciousness from psychedelics. Even at lower doses, the experiences still feel profound and impactful.

I also notice that the psychedelic headspace has become more "familiar" feeling, and less intimidating and frightening. I think that our species - and possibly even species that came before us - have long experimented / journeyed with these medicines. I believe that it is a normal part of human behavior to alter consciousness. I sometimes wonder, How many generations of my ancestors have tripped? Why does this altered headspace feel like it fits like an old pair of shoes? It just seems like the ideal perspective from which to figure out certain things. I believe that this is no coincidence.

And so, as I age - and continue to explore consciousness through these medicines - it all becomes more "normal" to me... just another normal part of life. Just as I imagine it was for countless generations beforehand. Its just a natural, intuitive way to figure things out and find balance and have fun. Its really not even that big of a deal. Its just a normal human thing to do. And the older I get, the more comfortable it becomes, for me.

Im 100% with you here!

Im also not really old but by now I got two decades of psychedelic use and I notice exactly what you mentioned: More sensitive to psychedelics, and familiarity with the experience.

One more thing I'd add, is that over the years I'm less prone to delusional thinking, which I think it's possible with psychedelics.. Psychedelics show us a lot of possibilities, and when one is young and inexperienced, one may be convinced that one of those possibilities being show is completely true .. For example one may think psychedelic is an absolute cure for this or that, or that after a certain trip one has already fixed all the issues they had, or that they finally found the perfect solution for some or another problem.

So now, while I still maintain an open mind and am definitely ready to receive messages that may be truthful and meaningful, and be inspired, Im also more prudent now. I know that the real work has to be done in real life, after the experience is over, with consistent effort toward the goals we want. Just believing psychedelics are by themselves a solution or that all thoughts and insights are 100% absolutely true may often lead one in a path of delusion and deception, and when one is young and inexperienced, that may be more likely to happen.

 

[dreamer042]

I can echo Grey Fox and Ender here. As I've aged my relationship with these materials has evolved such that I feel like I get more out of the experiences now in my mid 30's than I did when I was in my teens and early 20's and was approaching them in far less intentional and more recreational manner.

The caveat here is that as you get older you start to pile up more and more responsibilities and have less and less time and energy to invest in these explorations. It's easy to take LSD on a whim as a teenager. As an adult it becomes more challenging to carve out 10-12 hours amidst career, family, and social obligations to engage in these explorations.

This is the hallmark of healthy use though, to apply these tools in a way that promotes growth and helps us be more creative in our work, more compassionate in our relationships, and more engaged in our communities. This is the integrity of integration.

 

[slane]

I had a 4-AcO-DMT trip at age 24 that was in the wrong set and setting, and was far too much for me at the time. And my last real trip before that was probably at age 20 or 21.

I took 7 years off until returning with smoked DMT at 31. I didn't have another real trip until 32, my current age, with DMT again followed by vaporhuasca.

The break was what I needed, and a lot of Grey Fox's words resonate with me as well. Tripping at an older age with past experience has me requiring lower doses, and the trips have become more about feelings than visuals. The psychedelic headspace feels more familiar, I'm more in tune with the openness required to gain the most out of the trip, and overall it's far less intimidating.

I also find sense in what dreamer is saying about how it is also more challenging to find the right time for a trip, taking into consideration adult responsibilities (though I am without a nuclear unit of my own). For this reason I have pretty much chosen the middle of the night/early morning to go on my "adventures."

Where I used to consider psychedelics fun mind candy at ages 19-20, now it's all about recognizing their power to assist mindfulness and presence. Not while tripping, because yes, the past does tend to come up and be subject to dissection and integration during the trip. It's that the voyages themselves are about seeing the bigger picture. Any delving into unresolved issues comes with a tangible resetting of the DMN afterward, so the immediate time period post-trip has a sense of having shed past habits that were constricting. During this time it's like fertile ground in which to plant new seeds of habit. As a youth, I got afterglows all the time, but I couldn't *feel* that same resetting as I can as an older person, who has developed more calcified patterns in life that prevent an easy and fluid wellbeing.

If anything, I think that psychedelics are more valuable the older we get. Being familiar with them helps, and I don't think psychedelics are dangerous for a young mind if psychosis isn't latent... but for sure, I see a heightened potential for healing and constructive rebuilding of the brain's DMN as we age.

 

[Fruit is life]

One more thing I'd add, is that over the years I'm less prone to delusional thinking, which I think it's possible with psychedelics.. Psychedelics show us a lot of possibilities, and when one is young and inexperienced, one may be convinced that one of those possibilities being show is completely true ...

That's interesting, I guess experience really helps there. I know for myself in my earlier experiences I was prone to delusions like thinking I had killed myself etc

 

[Fruit is life]

This is the hallmark of healthy use though, to apply these tools in a way that promotes growth and helps us be more creative in our work, more compassionate in our relationships, and more engaged in our communities. This is the integrity of integration.

Great advice..

 

[numinoid]

"Life long" 5ht2 activator here of early 60's in age. This one can report that early experiences (late teens and twenties) were more experientially intense in general, and did open up experiences that aimed this life trajectory toward non-dual, or mystical points of view leading to exploring and adopting vedantic meditation practices, and orientations.

The best was yet to come in "recent" years though, due to MAPs and the the psychedelic renaissance fully legitimizing psychedelic exploration and removing fears and societal doubts (hah! time flies, even this is beginning to recede in memory).

A few DMT flashes solidified the knowledge that human experience is not veridical to "an outside world", but rather a virtualized model made of the stuff of one's experiential rolodex... (at the time one was spending several hours daily commuting to work, and one's DMT flashes were consistently "colored," literally, based on the same motifs, and exact hue's of one's car's dashboard display, so one knew that this was not "another dimension" but rather the DMT experience was wholly contained in one's head. The DMT "loud sound" was indeed based on the car's backup and seat-belt alarm.)

At any rate, all of this was "thermonuclear" in a transformational sense to "breaking-out" of depressive orientations that had been present, most of one's adult years, and one has found psychedelics to be a tremendous accelerant to continued non-dual transformation of "understanding and sadhana, or practice" (actually the transformation transcends mere conceptual objects of the apparent individual's mind), and notably not just intense psychedelic states themselves, but rather the "afterglow" and integration, 1-3 days post experience phase, are particularly fruitful, and "sticky."

As one get's older, there is more hesitancy to "embark", due to the time commitment involved. More time is given between experiences, with caution, and harm avoidance practices always front and center. Well-being is the goal!

The work of QRI, and Andreas Gomez Emilsson has been giving the first framework to really grapple with conceptually how psychedelic experiences catalyze change in human understanding and personal transformation with the idea of "annealing". Andreas' talk on the hyperbolic geometry of the DMT experience would be expected to be a must see for Nexians.

If one is happier and less perturbed by the ebbs and flows on the shore of living, one's relationships' are kinder, and more loving, one can be grateful for the existence, and knowledge of the psychedelic toolbox.

 

[woody]

In my 40s now and first tried mushrooms in my 20s. Had a bit of a break during my 30s, but since I’ve got back on the horse I’ve noticed, like others have mentioned, the familiarity of the psychedelic space. It’s a place I feel completely at ease with, which I think helps to inform the nature of my journeys.

For me these journeys now have far more intention directed at exploring consciousness and presence, where as when I was younger in amongst the insights there would have been a lot of ego based exploring. This can still be occasionally helpful but it’s not the focus of my trips and if I get too caught up in thought these days I am more able to detach from it and get back to the business of presence and awareness which I feel now has a lot more useful application in day to day reality. Thinking and dissecting things has it’s place and can be useful, but it can also end up being very distracting. But I guess I needed to work through that phase before I could move on to the next.

I’ll come back got the thread in another ten years to let you know where it goes next.

 

[Fruit is life]

The work of QRI, and Andreas Gomez Emilsson has been giving the first framework to really grapple with conceptually how psychedelic experiences catalyze change in human understanding and personal transformation with the idea of "annealing". Andreas' talk on the hyperbolic geometry of the DMT experience would be expected to be a must see for Nexians.
.

Thanks, I have been meaning to check out Andreas talk, I also find Tony Wright's work, data and interpretation on left right brain data and how it relates to the psychedelic experience to be an extremely accurate and helpful experience wise, as a conceptual framework to help wrap my sober mind around what might be going on.. Children of the Forest | Children of the Forest


At 60 years of age, do you notice any difference to the psychedelic space, aside from being more familiar and comfortable in that space, is there just as much potential functionality as there was in your youth?

 

[mad_banshee]

Im nearing 70 and still very much enjoy breaktrough journeys. The experience never gets old!

 

[numinoid]

Fruit of life mentions:
potential functionality

as in... is there any left after many experiences?

For this one yes, "the functionality" is still present, but someone else might find something different. Functionality implies an end "result."

The crispness, the unimagined and unexpected awe, the wonder may be muted over what they were in earlier years, but the excursion from conditioned patterns of consensus "normality" remain.

Immersion and identification with Consensus normality veils the non-dual recognition.

Like beauty, and all experiences, goals and results pertain to, and exist within, the observer.

 

[Bill Cipher]

I'm 54 and have been tripping since 15. Did a whole lot of it between 15 and 30, quit all drug and alcohol use at 30, and then circled back to psychedelics (only) at 42. I can echo most of what my fellow old timers have said here. I take it all with a grain of salt, don't jump to goofy conclusions, and if you're asking about cognitive decline, I'm happy to report that I've never felt any of that whatsoever.

There's a line in Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas that goes something like in time you get used to seeing your dead grandmother crawling up your leg. That's pretty much my experience. These states become less shocking over time, although DMT certainly puts that hypothesis to the test.

One thing I'll say though is that I have a much greater awareness of my mortality today than I did at 15, or 30, or 40. That awareness is always there in my trips, and it can make for uncomfortable moments.

But over all, I would say that psychedelics have served me very well. My use has slowed considerably in the past 5 years or so. That's partly a result of having a family and all the requisite responsibilities, and partly because I just don't need to habitually go back to the well. I got what I came for, and I'm more about utilizing the things I've brought back than just doin' it and doin' it and doin' it, though I do still dip a toe or two in whenever I feel the call.

 

[Fruit is life]

Thank you both for your input

 

[Fruit is life]

Fruit of life mentions:
potential functionality

as in... is there any left after many experiences?

For this one yes, "the functionality" is still present, but someone else might find something different. Functionality implies an end "result."

The crispness, the unimagined and unexpected awe, the wonder may be muted over what they were in earlier years, but the excursion from conditioned patterns of consensus "normality" remain.

Immersion and identification with Consensus normality veils the non-dual recognition.

Like beauty, and all experiences, goals and results pertain to, and exist within, the observer.

Not so much as in an end result, but functionality as in able to apply and utilize the altered state in a coherent manner e.g learn an instrument, neural functionality/plasticity like a child has, to be able to learn a language etc, a typical "older" brain will struggle to learn a new language/real time etc this is more so what I meant

 

[Bill Cipher]

Not so much as in an end result, but functionality as in able to apply and utilize the altered state in a coherent manner e.g learn an instrument, neural functionality/plasticity like a child has, to be able to learn a language etc, a typical "older" brain will struggle to learn a new language/real time etc this is more so what I meant

Well, to that I'd say that I am more creative today than I've ever been in my life, and I was in a rut, creatively speaking, when I decided to re-explore at 42. I'm also more relaxed and less neurotic about creative pursuits than I ever was previously. I credit psychedelics for reframing my relationship with and approach to artistic endeavors, in a way that allowed me to get out of my head and just play for the sake of playing.

 

[grimlid]

I have a question or a topic I am curious about, that is, has anybody who has used psychedelics deeply for long periods of time over decades etc, found their experiences to negatively or just generally change in any qualtive manner with their increasing age, relating to their own mind and what not?
Has anybody found these things become harder to work with as we get older?

Personally, I found psychedelics much more difficult at a younger age. When I began psychedelic use I was a kid of 15 and had a blast. Good trips, high quantities, no problems. As I got older my trips started getting bad but in retrospective that was in equilibrium with my life which was also becoming fraught with problems. I was into crime, harder drugs, violence, theft, dealing ect... bad karma stuff and I would be surprised to have a psychotic response to high doses of acid or shrooms???
As a result of the bad lifestyle which lead to harder drugs and addiction I got sober by age 32. Spent about 18 years cleaning up my past and starting a new life and learning to live honest and clean.
Tried psychedelics again at age 50. Clean life and taking care of business = good trips and no bad experiences to date. Likely 50 dmt trips mostly low to mid range dose and half dozen shroom trips from 1 to 7 grams all good. Well except that on on my 52nd birthday but that was a bad day and mixing pain meds and valium with dmt while recovering from an injury(oops)
My ability to live mature and responsible allowed me to enjoy and reap the benefits of therapeutic and recreational drug use without the horror of a bad trip or psychotic episode (thus far).

 

[Voidmatrix]

This is the hallmark of healthy use though, to apply these tools in a way that promotes growth and helps us be more creative in our work, more compassionate in our relationships, and more engaged in our communities. This is the integrity of integration.

I am only 32, but feel like I have also experienced some of this. I started experiencing different molecules in college, with mushrooms being my forte. I was never really trying to have fun, but to engage and learn, yet it was still haphazard, not being as directed as it could have been.

I have also noticed an increase in sensitivity as I age, which I consider to be a good thing. Less becoming more means more in the reserve and less waste.

I haven't experienced LSD in a while because it's hard to find 12 hours to set aside, away from my responsibilities. But it's kind of the cornerstone to what Dreamer042 said. A lot of our approach to these experiences turns out to be about being outside the experience; how does the experience effect our lives?

I look forward to see what transpires as I age further. Cuz I am still pretty young.

Great topic!

One love