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Anti depressants

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HumbleTraveler777

Rising Star
Anyone ever have success with anti depressants? Ive tried most plant medicines and nothing has worked for me so far. Im desperate. Thinking about going the conventional route.

Open to any suggestions...
 
No.

I will never tell another what they should do concerning their medical well being, but i will tell you that i have never been able to tolerate SSRI meds.

I fear that I'm one of those people at risk to commit violence on them. They scare the crap out of me.

Do you have experience with micro dosing? Since discovering it, I've happily found a pharmacological route oout of bad episodes. It works quickly for addressing symptoms and doesn't require reliance upon continued dosing. Of course, it is not covered by my insurance nor available at the pharmacy. However, spending the time in nature foraging for medicine is helpful in its own way.

Combined with an integrative practice, and meditation and visualization,individual and group therapy, and volunteerism, I've found a modicum of happiness.

Takes a lot more than dropping a pill but emotional stability is worth the work.

EDIT: HT's suggestions are enlightened. Since cutting processed sugar from my diet, the change in my mood for the better is incredible. Diet and exercise are the most overlooked ingredients of a healthy system.
 
HumbleTraveler777 said:
Anyone ever have success with anti depressants? Ive tried most plant medicines and nothing has worked for me so far. Im desperate. Thinking about going the conventional route.

Open to any suggestions...
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My suggestion is to avoid traditional anti-depressants until you're down to the last resort.

The first thing I would look at is your diet. Cut out processed carbohydrates. If it was processed, milled, squeezed, juiced, or FUBAR'd with in any significant way before you got your hands on it then don't eat it.
This means: No HFCS, no sugar, no juices or sweetened drinks (natural or otherwise), no white bread, no wheat bread (it really is just as bad as white bread unless you mill the grains yourself), no pasta, no flour, and even rice.
You can eat all the vegetables your heart desires and whatever meat you want if you're into that whole carnivore-apex-predator thing. And fat is your new best friend. Pick your fats however you want (obviously no transfats).

Glucose metabolism is nice and all since it's such an easily accessible energy source, but it's got lots of oxidative free radicals associated with it's metabolism. Ketogenic metabolism isn't associated with the same load. I've read that this is one of the suspected factors behind the ketogenic diet being so beneficial for seizure sufferer's and those with general psychosis, but there's only scant anecdotal evidence at this point.

Personally, ever since I quit the carbs and started fasting my depression is so far gone from my mind I'm never going back.

I'm following what I've taken to calling "The Perimeter Diet". I eat whatever the hell I want as long as it was acquired from the perimeter of the store. i.e. The Produce section, Meat, Dairy, Bakery, and Deli. I've slowly found out that I can do well with grain 2-3 times a week, more than that and I start to feel irritable and I start carb-crashing after meals. As for dairy, I don't drink unfermented milk. I don't think we should be having those carbs even if our fresh and shiny brand new genetic mutation says we can tolerate the lactose. Cheese and yogurt are life. Fatty meats <3. And I've got a soft spot in my heart for deli-wraps for snacking but I've switched over from tortillas and flatbread to lettuce wraps.

regardless, I'm starting to think there's just too much carbs in our diet 24/7/365, when evolutionarily they were an infrequent seasonal treat.


Beyond that. Physical activity. We need much more of it. The faceless "They" say to get 30 minutes a day of physical activity. I'm calling bullshit on that figure as being far too low. I try to aim for 10 hours a week, at that level I feel fantastic.
 
Theres nothing wrong with going "the conventional" route.
Its all about getting better.
Now whats important is that you get a good doctor and you need to work with that doctor.
You maybe want to look around and find doctors with good reviews and a focus on depression therapy.
Now the next thing is the medication.
You cant just say "I tried X medication and it doesnt work so I dont use it"
There are a literal fuckton of depression medication.
There are SSRIs, SNRIs, TCAs, SMSs, MAOIs, RIMAs, TeCAs, NaSSAs, SARIs and so on.
You cant really throw them all in a bucket and say "that one the best"
This is what most people do wrong. They go to their doctor. They get their Prozac and they just blindly take it forever even tho it might not work for that person.
It might not be the fact that the doc is bad. But its a kinda mistake done from both sides.
The doc thinks its okay and the person gettin treated doesnt say anything.

Whats important to look out for is the side effects. Some antidepressants have strong side effects that are actually good in many cases and should be the main reason of choice in my opinion.

Some are sedating some give you lots of energy, some improve sleep while others badly affect it.
Some make you gain weight, some make you loose weight, make you horny or kill your sex drive.
There are also antidepressants which are allergy medication at the same time which is kinda crazy if you think about it.

Its not that simple just to say I will take this and its okay.
Afterall we are talking about the human brain and all its neurotransmitters here.
Its very complicated. Make sure to actively try and get better. Just taking antidepressants is not enough.
 
OrionFyre said:
Beyond that. Physical activity. We need much more of it. The faceless "They" say to get 30 minutes a day of physical activity. I'm calling bullshit on that figure as being far too low. I try to aim for 10 hours a week, at that level I feel fantastic.
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Yeah food and activity is important but depending on the person those might only help so much.
Healthy eating and fit people can still be depressed.
But general healthy eating and physical fitness improve depression and your felt self worth.
 
Ulim said:
Now whats important is that you get a good doctor and you need to work with that doctor.
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This is extremely important wisdom. I also can't stress enough the importance of ongoing psychotherapy in conjunction with antidepressant meds. The combination has the potential to be much more powerful than the drugs alone and it is absolutely worth it to give the combination a shot. Even if you aren't interested in psychotherapy, it is crucial that you regularly talk to someone who understands depression treatment. Antidepressant meds are a beautiful, amazing gift but sometimes they can obstruct mental clarity. Psychotherapy can help you navigate this.
 
My feeling is, that there is not a single type of depression and that even depression itself can be multi-facetted. For me, simply raising serotonin is not enough. I found a good protocol is taking 5-htp one night, and a low dose salvia divinorum the next, then 5-htp again etc. Perhaps one could substitute 5-htp with kanna for something stronger. This has been the most effective thing next to ketamine for me and i've even tried tDCS. No experience with classic anti-depressants but im sceptical since they seem to be registering barely above placebo and do appear to have a lot of side-effects. Some people seem to love them though. So why not if you're not afraid of taking them.
 
I would highly encourage you not to take them..

Depression is a thing everyone faces (I mean maybe some people don't, but realistically probably everyone)

Capitalism is a boring chore to do while our earth is slowly withering away and we seem to be floating through a borderline-insane (or, arguably full-fletched insane) society.

Now, no one chooses to get depression, but you can choose how you fight it, and different routes are undeniably more successful than others.

The reason why I'm against anti-depressants (other than just general experience- I've never done them but I've had a lot of friends have horrible battles with them.. Many never win the battle)
is because depression is a chemical imbalance in your mind. Now, using chemicals to balance your mind seem to work, but only at first glance. You're only better when you're on the drug, and you're not
even that much better.. You're just "better." However over time the side effects start to kick in.. You can't just get away with taking a random man-made chemical that the government says is totally fine
forever, eventually the cons outway the pros, and that moment sucks, because quitting SSRI's is a biaaatch.

I should also add that many anti-depressants tend to interfere with psychedelia, and arguably with creativity in general. I'm not an expert, but I've heard of this and seen this happen.



Something else I have to say about this is how I personally fought depression because it worked. I had pretty bad depression, I'm sure many people on here do. It's common among any thinkers.

I mean, I owe much of the heavy-lifting to a powerful and random mushrooms experience, but the real juice is what I learned and what got me into a more happy state.

Our culture has a bad problem, and it's that you should treat depression with things that will ultimately make you more depressed. You don't often see someone in a mad depressive void say "man, I'm so sad I should really eat some fruits and vegetables." When in reality, that's probably your best option! Unfortunately in this day and age it's more often along the lines of "I need to let loose and drink, or eat chocolate, or buy something, or whatever."

I dunno.. I just feel like the mind and body is a complex neuro-chemical reaction (far more than that, but at a basic level of feeling good) and your brain is going to have trouble staying happy if your body isn't happy. If you're feeling sad, your body is too. Give it some nice treats, learn how to appreciate the natural world and the wonderful food it provides.
 
I feel like I need to say something here because way to many people bash anitdepressants without really knowing why.

There are two things that a sure.
A "real" depression is permanent. Antidepressants wont solve it. Just like LSD, DMT, and Shrooms wont make it magically dissapear. They will both reduce bad mood and if done right will heavily improve quality of life, and again the side effects can be easily bend to be positive if you take the right ones.

Its also important that people are sure what they actually have. I seen it to often that anxiety gets treated like depression which is pure bs.
 
I dunno.. I just feel like the mind and body is a complex neuro-chemical reaction (far more than that, but at a basic level of feeling good) and your brain is going to have trouble staying happy if your body isn't happy. If you're feeling sad, your body is too. Give it some nice treats, learn how to appreciate the natural world and the wonderful food it provides.
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Yeah, well you know that. It surprises the hell out of me that this is a concept that seems to be on the cutting edge for many in the various medical professions, and of course for most people. It was something that I didn't understand for a good chunk of my current life, but now I hold it to be a truism.

There are some good points of view in this thread, from that to pointing out the there is a plethora of different medicines. While personally I've never been offered anything but SSRI meds and mood stabilizers, the side effects of both of which are intolerable for me.

I know me,and know that my depression is "real", that is, long term, independent of situations and is chemical in nature. I agree with the statement that it has to do with more than, or something besides serotonin.

I have experimented with Syrian rue as RIMA to explore the possibility of a natural pharmacological anti depressant, but experiences similar symptoms to my SSRI experience, that is scary un called for rage.

Anyway, the issue brought up by op is multifold and complex. Perhaps you will be best served by meds, but my experience has shown me that a full self care practice without them works best. For me, that looks like weekly individual talk therapy, several groups each week (ACOA, DBT, a men with PTSD process group, and a recovery meeting), a couple hours volunteer service weekly and daily walks, visualization and and meditation. Also occasional micro dosing, regular cannabis and very infrequent macro dosing sessions. I'm still working on integrating diet and exercise fully. It's complex and more involved than eating a pill but also more effective at creating a sustainable happiness.
 
Microdosing psychs really does alleviate depression for a good amount of time. Im not saying itll work for everyone but it does for me.

Avoiding any food with added sugar also helps. I eat a lot of fruits and vegetables now.
 
There are so many different anti-depressants. They're not all the same, and not all man made. If you have a problem with man made chemicals, you could try st johnsworth. In a couple of repeated study's it has proven to be effective against mild form of depressions, most of the time. Without severe side effects, most of wich are temporarily anyway.
SSRI's seem to have the highest risk of unwanted side effects.
I think that they have just been marketed way too ferociously. Especially SSRI's aren't for anybody, and they may require some guidance for the people taking them. And people should be properly informed about what to expect, what the risks are, etc. and what best to do if something goes wrong.
It's realy wise to read about the pills you are been given. Disinformation is a big problem here. People get weird side effects that get worse and worse. If they would simply know that this could be a completely normal response for such a drug, and that it will wear off in just a couple of days...it could maybe prevent them running the Streets naked with a skorpion vz 61 with armour piercing rounds, and a bagfull of handgranates.
A little counselling can do a lot.
 
Ulim said:
A "real" depression is permanent.
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It doesn't have to be ~ strong, clinical depression is often caused by being completely overwhelmed by negative emotions. I was in that state for a good 2 years... 2 grams of Psilocybin, twice, helped me overcome my depression for a good while, until I meditated too much, and ended up reawakening buried childhood trauma that catapulted me into a worse depression than before...

Then I smoked some Cannabis again after many, many months, and somehow, I had the strength to push through my depression... meditation was simple again, whereas during the depression, meditation was impossible. This time, I didn't take the meditation as far as before, where I was meditating for half an hour nightly...

Then I drank Ayahuasca, and while it cured the very worst of the depression, the deep anxiety I'm struggling with is rooted far deeper. I refuse psychiatric drugs, because I prefer to be myself, and see a psychologist instead. I see my anxiety as a measuring stick for how much more work I need to put into healing. On psychiatric drugs... I feel that I would not be able to heal properly.
 
There's no magic pill that's going to make it all go away (I would know). You need to exercise, eat right, and find a good therapist. We're basically in the dark ages of medicine.
 
There's no magic pill that's going to make it all go away (I would know). You need to exercise, eat right, and find a good therapist. We're basically in the dark ages of medicine.
 
Running Bear said:
There's no magic pill that's going to make it all go away (I would know). You need to exercise, eat right, and find a good therapist. We're basically in the dark ages of medicine.
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Thats very true RB.

Western medicine does unspeakable wonders when it comes to treating acute trauma, where the problem to be solved is obvious, cut the body open, remove the thing, reset the thing, make it clean and tidy, stitch it back up. And incredible drugs to make this procedure painless, or cure a life-threatening infection.

But when it comes to chronic illness, mental or physical, we are indeed in the dark ages. We don't heal, we attempt to 'manage'. The very attempt to 'manage' problems in this way, rather then facing them directly, is quite ironically the very thing that makes us sicker.

You can say that for many chronic mental illnesses, that are lifelong and permanent, like depression, schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, alcoholism, addiction, anxiety, or chronic physical illnesses (which really are all very very closely related... guess how many people who have anxiety issues also have IBS, coincidence? :!: ) like autoimmune disorders, Crohn's disease, IBS, and many others, even cancer.

These are all illnesses that are deeply woven into the being, while 'permanent' in a sense, each and every one of them is capable of total remission. 10 years, 20 years, even indefinitely, or until death. There are many, many cases of this. It plain and simply undeniable. To deny it is to play the victim, to avoid personal responsibility and to stay sick. Recovery is possible for anyone and I believe that. I know people personally and have experienced it myself. There IS a way, and it's a hard path, the hardest I could ever imagine... In that way, your illness, your weakness, can become your greatest strength. Its transformative. Transformative medicine. In many cases, no drugs are needed, but they can play a part. This is the future of medicine.

There is no guarantee, of course, if it was guaranteed it would actually defeat the entire purpose... More on that later maybe. The desire to have it guaranteed is the same as the magic pill, born out that of western thought that has it all wrong in the first place when it comes to these type of problems. If it were guaranteed what would you strive for? It would no longer be transformative. The very delusion that will make you sick is to think 'If only I wasn't so misfortunate, I could lead the life I want'. The only life is the one in front of you. Now.
 
The biggest problem with all so called "mentasl illn esses" is, that they are, at least in part, caused by culture while, at the same time, there are no cultural mechanisms to treat these problems because "It's a chemical imbalance". This grand arrogance has to dissapear before there is a real chance of healing most sufferers of these problems.

But then, "pain control" is not a purely western thing.
 
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