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Anyone tried Sinicuichi (Heimia salicifolia, "Sun-Opener")?

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69ron

69ron

Esteemed member
SWIM has a bag of sinicuichi sitting around that he got some time ago. He’s never tried it.

I looked at a few other popular drug forums and it seems like a very mixed bad of reactions can be found for this herb.

I’ve read some reports of users experiencing excruciating sore muscles a few hours after taking sinicuichi.

I’ve read reports of users having full psychedelic effects from it.

I’ve read reports of it doing nothing.

I’ve read reports of it having light marijuana-like effects.



Is anyone on this forum familiar with this herb?

Has anyone had any positive experiences from it?

I know the natives have a special preparation they use for this plant that involves fermenting freshly picked leaves in water under sun light. SWIM has only dried leaves so he can’t duplicate their preparation method.

The thought of SWIM experiencing extreme muscle pain is why he's let it sit on the shelf for so long without trying it.

Is there a preparation method that will ensure a pain-free experience from this herb?
 
Let me see if I can help you, this time.
Sinicuichi is on my research list, even if it's not one of the most interesting plant for myself.

Personally I think that collateral effects could came from an hypersensitivity to antimalarial compounds in the plant.
PubMed reports that vertine and epi-lyfoline show moderate antimalarial activity.
Vertine is also the most concentrated alkaloid in the plant. This, for me, makes a lot of sense about collateral effects reported.

This is what I have collected so far. CopyPasted.
If you follow the Auxins Alkaloids of Genus Heimia Page link you will find a nice chemical profile to plan an extraction.

Alkaloids profile. (source PubMed 18374955)
9beta,2'-dihydroxy-4'',5''-dimethoxy-lythran-12-one or 9beta-hydroxyvertine (1) and (2S,4S,10R)-4-(3-hydroxy-4-methoxyphenyl)-quinolizidin-2-acetate (2), as well as seven known alkaloids, lythrine (3), dehydrodecodine (4), lythridine (5), vertine (6), heimidine (7), lyfoline (8) and epi-lyfoline (9), were isolated from Heimia salicifolia.

Medical properties of the alkaloids:[source Auxins Alkaloids of Genus Heimia Page]
The biphenylquinolizidine lactone alkaloids are considered the primary biologically active components of mature Heimia. The pharmacological properties of these alkaloids are not fully known, but some of their properties have been clinically studied. The most concentrated alkaloid in H. salicifolia is vertine (cryogenine) [1] and it is this alkaloid most often considered as being the primary source for the effects of the traditional Heimia salicifolia brew. Clinically observed effects of vertine include Anticholinergic [10], Antiinflammatory [11], Antispasmodic [10], Hyperglycemic, Hypotensive, Sedative [11], Tranquilizer, and Vasodilator [10] activity. Lythrine is considered to be the most effective diuretic, it and the mixed alkaloidal extract are considered to be relatively free of toxicity [9]. Nesodine has been shown to produce an antiinflammatory effect [12], and sinicuichine is known to act as a tranquilizer [10]. My research to date has not uncovered the source of any hallucinogenic effect observed in Heimia preperations.
The phenylquinolizidinols and phenylquinolizidine esters are seemingly only found in young Heimia seedlings [3], so their biological effects are probably irrelevant in the subject of traditional Heimia medicines and sacraments.

[emh.. this is my first post out of the nursery, I don't know how or why or when I was allowed, but thanks :) ]
 
I have smoked dried leaves before in joints. It was very relaxing with very very very slight MJ effects. Nothing too crazy, but definately a great substitute for tobacco or MJ.
 
69ron said:
SWIM has a bag of sinicuichi sitting around that he got some time ago. He’s never tried it.

I looked at a few other popular drug forums and it seems like a very mixed bad of reactions can be found for this herb.

I’ve read some reports of users experiencing excruciating sore muscles a few hours after taking sinicuichi.

I’ve read reports of users having full psychedelic effects from it.

I’ve read reports of it doing nothing.

I’ve read reports of it having light marijuana-like effects.



Is anyone on this forum familiar with this herb?

Has anyone had any positive experiences from it?

I know the natives have a special preparation they use for this plant that involves fermenting freshly picked leaves in water under sun light. SWIM has only dried leaves so he can’t duplicate their preparation method.

The thought of SWIM experiencing extreme muscle pain is why he's let it sit on the shelf for so long without trying it.

Is there a preparation method that will ensure a pain-free experience from this herb?
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69Ron: I know you, like myself, are interested in broadening the horizions and trying new things but one thing I would say about sinicuichi: DONT.
It was horrible. truely horrible. It left both me and my friend with intense muscle cramps for days afterward. It tasted foul (obviously) and had no mental effects whatsoever.
Please don't waste your time, It was really painful.
 
O ya, it's a very cool plant, I consider it a true entheogen like 'shrooms and cactus. It makes you hear voices.
 
SWIM has still not tried it. The thought of having sore muscles for many hours following its use does not sound very good at all.

I have heard that kava or kratom helps get rid of the sore muscles. Is this true?
 
its supposed to cause clairaudience. the only way ive heard of people taking sinicuichi is by getting fresh material and making a tea but leaving it in the sun for a couple of days. with old material you wont really get alot from it except a sore gut and a spaced out feeling. very fresh material is the only way to go i was told. Ive been meaning to grow some sinicuichi for a long time, cheers for reminding me.
 
Czepa said:
its supposed to cause clairaudience. the only way ive heard of people taking sinicuichi is by getting fresh material and making a tea but leaving it in the sun for a couple of days. with old material you wont really get alot from it except a sore gut and a spaced out feeling. very fresh material is the only way to go i was told. Ive been meaning to grow some sinicuichi for a long time, cheers for reminding me.
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yea, that's what I read as well. The couple of people who I knew tried it got minimal and not overly desirable results. I was really interested in Sinicuichi like 2 years ago, but I stopped searching for it when I couldn't find any fresh material. Hopefully I'll have a little room in my personal herb garden down the line, it's quite easy to grow.
 
The thought of having sore muscles for many hours following its use does not sound very good at all.
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If you prepare it properly then this isn't a problem.

Read into the traditional prep' of putting it into a jar in the sun.
 
I know about the freshness being an issue, and proper preparation and all, but I’ve also read some people have had decent effects from dried material. I believe the chemical responsible for the desired effect is still present in the dry material, just not as plentiful.

I think enough people have had decent effects from dry leaf that it’s worth playing around with if the sore muscle component can be removed from the experience.

It might be possible that the compound responsible for the sore muscles can somehow be removed. This may be what the native sun tea preparation does to it. Maybe the toxic chemical is destroyed by UV light?

If we knew what chemical caused the soreness, it might be a simple matter of washing the herb in d-limonene to remove it, or something else similar.
 
69ron said:
I know about the freshness being an issue, and proper preparation and all, but I’ve also read some people have had decent effects from dried material. I believe the chemical responsible for the desired effect is still present in the dry material, just not as plentiful.

I think enough people have had decent effects from dry leaf that it’s worth playing around with if the sore muscle component can be removed from the experience.

It might be possible that the compound responsible for the sore muscles can somehow be removed. This may be what the native sun tea preparation does to it. Maybe the toxic chemical is destroyed by UV light?

If we knew what chemical caused the soreness, it might be a simple matter of washing the herb in d-limonene to remove it, or something else similar.
Click to expand...
Point taken...is there any sort of documentation on the chemical composition of Sinicuichi? I can go check a couple resources, but I'm not sure how much help they'll be...Gotta get my hands on Tanaka's Cyclopedia of Edible plants eventually, but for now I think I can get to a reference copy of it.

The UV light hypothesis isn't bad either and if that's the case, an extraction may not even be necessary (well at least in my case) as I have a 400watt CMH light that throws significant UV light.

Ron, if we can find the necessary information for a jumping off point, I think this would be very interesting to explore.
 
Yes, it would be very interesting.

We’ve all read of reports that were completely positive, and reports that were without psychoactive effects that were plagued with extreme muscle pain, and many in between the two. It seems clear that the psychoactive component and the muscle pain causing component are not the same compound.

Imagine if one could completely get rid of the pain causing component by simply blasting the plant with UV light for several days! That would be fantastic.

Many alkaloids are sensitive to UV light. The sun tea method has been theorized by some to be a fermentation of sorts. The belief is that there’s possibly a fungus or something similar that’s actually responsible for the effects. This might be the case, but it’s also possible that the UV light is simply decomposing the toxic compound. Maybe, the toxic compound decomposes by UV light, and becomes the desired compound?

One thing about the sun tea method, it’s NOT done indoors. If it were just fermenting the plant, then it seems to me that indoors would be better. Most fungus and other microorganisms do not like sun light.

These are the things used in the sun tea:
* Freshly picked slightly wilted leaf
* Water
* “Fermentation” in sunlight

A wilted leaf is a slightly oxidized leaf, that’s also dying. Maybe oxidation plays a role? Oxidation, and then UV light. Hmmmm. Those two things can greatly alter the effects of alkaloids. Maybe the Sun tea method first oxidizes the toxin, making it an N-oxide, and then destroys part of the molecule by means of UV light?
 
azrael said:
How's the taste intensity on a scale of 1 to 10, 1 being mullein and 10 being old calea?
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Haven't tasted either of those so I couldn't go off your scale.
But, smoked it wasn't bad at all. Pleasant even, relaxing. Better than tobacco, not as good as MJ.
I've heard teas are pretty nasty however.
 
I've used Hemia salicifolia for years now. It is one of my favorite plants to work with. The dried leaves can be smoked to a marijuana like buzz, albeit more subtle than bud, BUT most definitely noticeable AND more importantly, enjoyable! The more material you smoke the more noticeable the buzz becomes. I've smoked a 10x material and 20x as well, and both were fantastic. The 20x actually reminded me so much of smoking dpt fb, which was another gem that has sadly gone away for the most part. Anyhow, smoking it in extract form is the way to go. The liquid extract has an effect, but nowhere near as enjoyable as smoking it. I've had a plant for the past year and a half and can attest that fresher material is more potent, but the dried material I have used hasn't been terribly far behind it. Great plant that I hope to have in my life till the day I die. It potentiates marijuana really well too, adds a certain something extra to the weed high. Often it helps me out in times of need :)
 
Ive also used sun opener for quite some time. Its pretty neat, I smoke it in spliffs, usually mixed with a bit of tobacco, and mmmm. its pretty wonderful. I have experienced auditory "hallucinations" though it was more carrier wave, and distortion more than anything. I have also had a couple of occasions where my world tinted yellow. This after smoking 4-5 joints of pure heimia. I have yet to do a tincture or extract, though I heard the tea was nice.
 
well 69 ron

i brewed mine for a few hours on the stove (about a half oz)
very euphoric for the first 90 minutes
lethargic and muscularly sore for 30 hours *alot like the flu*

things got yellower

auditory distortion





i feel like i messed it up because its meant to sit in the sun for a day, not on 212 degrees for a few hours




the taste wasnt terrible id say 6/10





im going to study this one further
 
Suicybe said:
well 69 ron

i brewed mine for a few hours on the stove (about a half oz)
very euphoric for the first 90 minutes
lethargic and muscularly sore for 30 hours *alot like the flu*
Click to expand...

The sore muscle effect is a real put off. This sounds interesting except for that part of the experience. Has anyone come across a way to avoid the sore muscle effect?
 
i think its about time to do some more research on this plant, so im bumping it to current threads!


i plan on acquiring an amount and doing an alcohol extraction on it, perhaps an a/b but ive yet to see if its possible with the following alkaloids which are:

Vertine, also known as cryogenine, is regarded as the primary psychoactive component and is also generally the most abundant constituent of alkaloidal extracts. Clinically demonstrated effects include anticholinergic, anti-inflammatory, antispasmodic, hyperglycemic, hypotensive, sedative, tranquilizer, and vasodilator activity.

Lythrine, the third most abundant alkaloid, has been found to have diuretic activity.

Heimidine, A minor alkaloid, has been found to have anti-inflammatory activity.

Lyfoline, the second most abundant alkaloid.

Lythridine, a minor alkaloid
 
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