Ayahuasca and Harmala Salts

[Corpophage]

In an attempt to avoid the undesirable taste of Syrian Rue, a vinegar extraction of harmine/harmaline hydrochloride salts was performed. However, usage is the confusing part to me. I understand that the salts can be ingested or administered sublingually, but can they be effectively smoked before one is to drink an Ayahuasca brew? From what I have read, it only seems to be active when ingested orally with the Ayahuasca, however, I don't see why smoking it before or while sipping on the brew would not work as well.

Also, I realize the harmala is not in freebase form, which would raise the vaporization point, but could it be (and is it safe to be) smoked in either form? Would this make the effects more potent? I have the ratio of crystals to seeds and planned on using the equivalent to 2g of seeds (where 3-6g is usually taken orally).

And completely-off-topic curiosity, is there an ideal amount of time for Ayahuasca to be held before purging? Most accounts void of purging always seem to end bad, which can lead one to be overcautious and induce vomiting early.

I apologize because I know these questions have been asked before, but I have not quite found the solid answer I am looking for. Thanks in advanced for your time, it is appreciated.

 

[dumbstruck]

I'm not positive on this but I believe when you smoke the harmalas do not inhibit the MAOs in your stomach. So you can't smoke harmalas and eat DMT.

 

[ms_manic_minxx]

First, are you taking extracted harmalas AND Caapi ("Ayahuasca") ? Or do you just mean extracted harmalas and some kind of DMT salt?

For DMT to be active orally, you have to take harmalas orally. Once orally inhibited, though, if you choose to smoke after, things can get very insane very quickly. :shock: So, if this is your first time, I would recommend with getting familiar with each individually, and then combining judiciously. It's great to have a deep experience, but it's not so great to get unnecessarily sick and terrified, especially in unfamiliar waters.

Ideally, if the brew is held for about an hour, you should be fine. I've purged 10 minutes after drinking (I was chasing the tea with some mango and vomited all over my plate on the table... :roll: ) and still had a complete experience. I have seen others vomit early, though, and sometimes the experience aborts--but that could have been for a number of reasons.

I would not recommend trying to induce vomiting at any point. You may not vomit. You may not even feel nauseous! I vomit maybe 1/20 times. I know other people who vomit all night, every night they drink. In any case, the best thing to do is just surrender. Keep a bucket nearby if you need it, but just resign yourself to the experience, enjoy and learn all you can. Trying to induce vomiting feels like a mind > body approach, when, really, lots of the beauty of the experience is quieting the mind and learning to identify with the voice of the body.

Also, inducing vomiting is different than being forced to purge by the medicine. Once the medicine is active in your body, regardless of what is actually in your stomach, if you are meant to vomit, you will vomit, and nothing in the world can stop it.

 

[Corpophage]

First, are you taking extracted harmalas AND Caapi ("Ayahuasca") ? Or do you just mean extracted harmalas and some kind of DMT salt?

For DMT to be active orally, you have to take harmalas orally. Once orally inhibited, though, if you choose to smoke after, things can get very insane very quickly. :shock: So, if this is your first time, I would recommend with getting familiar with each individually, and then combining judiciously. It's great to have a deep experience, but it's not so great to get unnecessarily sick and terrified, especially in unfamiliar waters.

Ideally, if the brew is held for about an hour, you should be fine. I've purged 10 minutes after drinking (I was chasing the tea with some mango and vomited all over my plate on the table... :roll: ) and still had a complete experience. I have seen others vomit early, though, and sometimes the experience aborts--but that could have been for a number of reasons.

I would not recommend trying to induce vomiting at any point. You may not vomit. You may not even feel nauseous! I vomit maybe 1/20 times. I know other people who vomit all night, every night they drink. In any case, the best thing to do is just surrender. Keep a bucket nearby if you need it, but just resign yourself to the experience, enjoy and learn all you can. Trying to induce vomiting feels like a mind > body approach, when, really, lots of the beauty of the experience is quieting the mind and learning to identify with the voice of the body.

Also, inducing vomiting is different than being forced to purge by the medicine. Once the medicine is active in your body, regardless of what is actually in your stomach, if you are meant to vomit, you will vomit, and nothing in the world can stop it.

My bad, I meant mimosa by Ayahuasca, for some reason I thought I mentioned that.

This will be a third trip to the astral plane, the first of them being stunted by too many people and the second being a wonderful experience that was not quite on the level I had hoped, but at the same time I wouldn't have had it differently. I was hoping that the harmala salt would be a bit more potent than the 5g of seeds used in a water extraction. Should I put the harmala in a pill capsule? And for a crude extraction, how much stronger is the salt than compared to the seeds it was made from- or is it weaker due to a loss in yield?

I planned on capping the harmala on other herbs first to get a feel for it, but the smoked dosage versus the oral dosage would probably vary greatly. However, is smoking the salt as efficient/non-harmful as smoking a harmala freebase? I know little when it comes to that and want to make sure.

In previous attempts, vomiting had to be induced from pretty severe nausea. I'm not the kind of person that throws up often, even after a horribly sickening woodrose ingestion induced vomiting was required to remove it. I've never waited to see if the nausea subsides though, after reading horror stories of not throwing it up and blacking out- essentially defeating the whole purpose of the journey- and waking up in bad condition/hospitalized, I've always been afraid that holding the brew in would cause that type of overdose.

I also fast for at least 12 hours beforehand and I wonder if maybe there just isn't enough in my stomach to throw up- perhaps something to wash the brew down would cause it to wash back up.

Thanks for the reply- you cleared a lot up. I hadn't even thought to try smoking it once in effect orally, that just may be the extra kick I'm looking for. I find smoking to be quite magical while undergoing Ayahuasca trips- it's almost as if I formed an emotional bond with the pipes used, those images are the burned the deepest into my memory of the experiences.