Ayahuasca Issues

[DMiTria]

Hello Nexians,

I have some Ayahuasca in bottles and when I try to open them They start to foam like it's carbonated or something. I have attached some pictures to show you what they are doing. Don't mind the bottle on the left, just the to big ones. I'm afraid to open them because I don't want the liquid to turn into foam. Does anyone have any recommendations?

 

[null24]

I have no clue, but just a question. How long have they been sitting? They look swollen as if by internal pressure. Could they be fermenting? Sugars and natural yeasts present may be doing their own magic on there, but probably not the kind your into.

 

[GOD]

I would throw them away . You dont know what is causeing the preasure . It might / maybe be something that produces toxins that resterilising wont kill . Who knows ? Is it worth the risk = NO . Your life and health are worth more than the few euros , risk , time and effort that it will take to get / make some more .

Do you eat moldy food ?

Good way to think and live = ---- > I have one life . My body is a temple , i respect it and i dont use it as a dustbin .

 

[pitubo]

Your ayahuasca has been fermenting in the bottle. It is now ayahuasca beer. I am not sure if it is still usable as ayahuasca. In any case, be careful that the bottle doesn't burst from the pressure, it leaves a mess if this happens.

Freshly prepared ayahuasca needs to be stored in a refrigerator or better a freezer.

 

[DMiTria]

The pressure has subsided I figured it was just the room temperature and me shaking the bottle too much but I will refrigerate it. I was under the assumption that Ayahuasca doesn't spoil. It has only been two weeks. Also I was wondering if I added lemon juice to it if it would break down the sediment to a more liquidy form. As for the fermentation, how does that even happen? Also I've read that reboiling it gets rid of the supposed fermentation like symptoms.

Here is a nice quote that I keep in mind about all substances...

'All things are poisons, for there is nothing without poisonous qualities. It is only the dose which makes a thing poison.'

- Paracelsus

 

[edge2054]

Fermentation happens when yeast or bacteria eats sugar and leaves alcohol as a byproduct. Ayahuasca has a lot of plant sugar in it (that dark brown and black sediment is caramelization). Depending on where it was kept and how much yeast or bacteria was in the jar when you sealed it up two weeks may have been long enough. It takes about a day for my sourdough culture to begin to ferment if I leave it out on the counter and about a month if I leave it in the fridge.

If you're worried about it you can pasteurize your jar or dump the liquid out to boil it. Takes about ninety minutes to do a good low heat pasteurization. A fast boil will work too but may burn your brew (yay! more burned sugar!). This will knock back the yeast and bacteria cultures.

Generally speaking fermentation isn't harmful. However many fermented foods are on the list of things to avoid with MAOIs. Granted, those lists may be a bit on the safe side as Ayahuasca is not a full MAOI.

Here's a thread I concerning tyramines and ayahuasca. I would give it a read before drinking any fermented brew myself.

do you experience tyramine interactions with caapi or rue? - Harmalas - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus

 

[endlessness]

If you see some mold, then I'd avoid consuming because of possible mycotoxins, but if it was fermentation it would not be a problem at all.

Fermentation changes the pH of the brew but does not affect alkaloid content. In that case you could boil it for a while and any created alcohol should evap .

 

[Infundibulum]

I highly doubt that this is yeast fermentation, most certainly not alcoholic fermentation. Ayahuasca is extremely low in fermentable sugars to make any yeast happy...

But bacterial fermentation is a different matter. Bacteria can thrive in all sorts of substrates and that's my most likely bet of what's going on here.

OP, did you taste those aya preparations (nb tastingis different from eating). You may be able to detect off flavours not commonly found in aya preps.

 

[endlessness]

Inf, check this, page 154:

http://ns1.catbull.com/alamut/Bibliothek/various%20alkaloid%20profiles%20in%20aya%20decoction.pdf

 

[DMiTria]

Thanks for all the info. I talked to one of my Curanderos He said a probable cause for the expansion is because the brew hasn't been reduced all the way and that the bottles aren't completely full to where there is no air in them. Also, when reducing it should I do it on a simmer or medium heat?

 

[Infundibulum]

Inf, check this, page 154:

http://ns1.catbull.com/alamut/Bibliothek/various alkaloid profiles in aya decoction.pdf

Hmm....interesting, but not believable. Yeast fermentation is normally associated with ph reduction...as for the ethalnol smell...surely that isnotscientific enough as and there are quite few compounds eith smell similar to alcohol.

 

[intosamadhi]

I've seen this before. We had some ayahuasca left over from a Santo Daime ceremony stored in a plastic bottle in the fridge for a few weeks. The bottle was agitated in transit and when we tried to open it it sprayed all over the place.....stained my shorts ;-) What we drank tasted a bit fermented compared to in the daime ceremony (fresh daime has a very sweet taste) but didn't make anyone sick.

I think if you punch a hole in the cap and cover it with your finger to prevent it from coming out, you should be able to release the pressure slowly enough to eventually open it and pour it out. Simmer it on a gentle heat for a while and after that it should be good to go. :thumb_up:

I believe this is common when fresh vine has been used for the preparation, rather than vine which has been left to dry for some time. Not sure what kind of fermentation is taking place but I doubt it is harmful, unless it has been sitting for weeks out in the open.

 

[DMiTria]

So I did a low boil and in the beginning to foam a lot and then it subsided after like 4-5 minutes I figured that was the fermentation which might have been alcohol or something but I added like 2 cups of water with a tbs of vinegar and reduced it down to what it was before. Now it is a blackish brown color and it is decently thick I wanted it to be a milder experience then what I have coming from my Curandero which I've had before and it is the strong stuff. Every once in a while I like to experience ego-death. I put the Ayahuasca in mason jars this time and am cooling them down before I put them into the freezer.

 

[pitubo]

I put the Ayahuasca in mason jars this time and am cooling them down before I put them into the freezer.

Be careful about placing glass containers holding liquid in a freezer. Water expands as it freezes and becomes ice. The physical expansion during phase transition has enough force to shatter the glass.

For the purpose of freezing liquids, plastic bottles are better suited. Those will either stretch or tear, while glass shatters catastrophically and leaves sharp bits of glass all over the freezer. These small glass shards are hard to distinguish from ice crystals that tend to accumulate in a freezer. This can lead to nasty cuts.

 

[DMiTria]

I thought puting them in bottles has a reaction with the Ayahuasca. A lot of people recommended that I put them in jars instead of plastic bottles but I'll check them again today after I get home from class.