Ayahuasca reduction, avoiding burning, and dose calculation

[christian]

A few simple questions i'd like to ask:

1. When reducing Aya (or Caapi alone) brews, should one reduce to a syrup or dark liquid that appears to be 'thickish'.

2. I noticed my Caapi reduction went to an "oily" interestingly dark and 'colourful bubbles' stage, is this where i should stop reducing? It then got smaller and thicker and darker...was this an example of caramelisation, and does this effect potency/taste, enough to be a concern??

3. If i started with 400gm of Caapi, should i ideally be aiming for a final concentrate of 400ml?..This would mean a concentration of 50g per 50ml. This sounds right to me. What about you? :want:

Thanks.

 

[NamRa]

Hi chistian.

1

You could reduce to a syrup its great. When concentratred the taste will be stronger and it might take longer to glide out of the glass. If your caapi is sweet a concentrated caapi will be very sweet if bitter the concentrated caapi will be a lot more bitter.

But having it not so thick is good also.

2

Aya can be reduced to a paste, the shuar in ecuador are good at this. As long as you dont burn your brew potency will not be affected.
Taste see point 1.

3 there is no ideal concentration really.
When I was in brazil I really liked to drink big glasses of light aya in this specific situation. We where doing a ritual that involved dancing so the extra liquid was great to replenish all the liquid I lost sweating.


Just go with your feeling you cant go wrong.
Happy brewings !!

 

[endlessness]

NamRa is correct..

The important thing is, do NOT filter the aya after reducing, otherwise you will lose actives. Any sediments after its reduced will contain actives.

Also, reducing on low fire makes the aya taste better (or less worse) than reducing on high fire.

Some rituals use very concentrated aya ("mel", or honey), others use more dilute ones like NamRa said.. You'll have to find what works for you.

 

[christian]

Thanks Namra and Endlessness.

I have read what you have said, and am grateful for that. Thanks. I have also read what the web has to offer. I have also brewed, and made my own ideas up, etc, etc...all good!

- I've understood that for example a Caapi concentrate should ideally be made slowly with no rush, and reduced in a similar manner. I was in a rush to 'finish' the repounded Caapi i have. I now have 3x 150ml jars of goodies. Of course i'll let ya'll know how it goes, acetic acid (yea, i used) or not, yuk.. What about the concentration..do you think like i do about the 400gm example: 400ml = 400gm Caapi?

Endlessness, like Namra said, i guess i'll have to experiment and find out what works for me.:thumb_up:

 

[NamRa]

just go slow Christian

here some very thick wonderfull mel

 

[christian]

LOOKS similar, 'ra!

 

[Agave]

I like to reduce 1 ml. to 1 g. It's just easy to measure and keeps things simple. Slow reduction for taste is important. In the winter I like to reduce on the woodstove, it never quite boils but slowly steams off with no scorching .

 

[christian]

Also, reducing on low fire makes the aya taste better (or less worse) than reducing on high fire.

This is an interesting point, Endlessness. I'm finding that during the last stages of reducing the brew it turns much darker ( from the already dark and good concentration). Does this mean i've "burnt the liquid", or is this simply because of a higher concentration- or perhaps both? As much as i'd like to put the cooker on the lowest heat, it would take forever with the amount i have, so i have it on high fire usually.

I've read some people talking about spending all day reducing their brew to create the best tasting Aya. Is potency affected, and is there THAT much taste benefit to be concerned about?

 

[endlessness]

I think the alkaloids themselves are pretty stable but possible plant sugars can caramelize/burn specially if its not on low fire/simmer, and this might be in big part responsible for the bad taste on high fire reduced brews.

I do think it makes quite a bit of difference in taste, but you should sometime test in both ways to compare and see if you also agree

Just be sure not to filter after reducing or you'll lose alkaloids!

 

[3rdI]

Hello christian,

I am currently brewing and reducing my first proper Ayahuasca, it is a combo of 100g of red and 100g of black vine along with 100g of chacruna. It has gone very dark after reducing, before it had a deep redish tinge but it is now black

 

[christian]

I do think it makes quite a bit of difference in taste, but you should sometime test in both ways to compare and see if you also agree

Thanks. Unfortunately i only have 2 pots to use, and need to do many reductions. This means lots of quick boils which is still very time consuming. So, as much as i'd like a wonderful tasting Caapi, i guess a possibly burnt and maybe over vinegry one might just have to do.

It has gone very dark after reducing, before it had a deep redish tinge but it is now black

Yea, 3'rd, just like mine. I guess if you are only brewing a small amount you might be able to ensure it's at it's optimum by reducing very slowly. I guess i'm a bit of a kamikazi reducing fiend, but i've got a fair bit to do..:want:

>The biggest mystery to me is the reduction bit. I had a lot of liquid to reduce, so did it on a high heat. Soon i noticed the colour deepen, and then the rainbow bubbles stage. I think this is the crucial stage. I have continued to boil this down, but instead of getting thicker, the base of the pan has accumulated a dark film. I guess this meant i scorched some of the Caapi onto the pan. I guess this means some loss of yield too.

Can anyone confirm if this is likely to be the case. I have half reduced one concentrate and it is deeply dark, but not much thicker. Does burning the Caapi just make it go blackish, create a film on the pans base, without thickening the liquid?