Ayahuasca Seperatism

[nen888]

..i think there's a bit of new-age elitism in the now fashionable ayahuasca 'scenes'..

if we look at something like yopo as a traditional form of fast-acting tryptamine experience (the seeds were smoked too) then it could be argued that this is more 'shamanic'..ayahuasca is given to all and sundry..not the snuffs, let alone smoking rituals..whatever teenagers choose to do on you tube, i would argue that smoking DMT is closer to a 'warrior' based shamanic approach..

..i think it's because traditions like this (yopo etc) are far less accessible than ayahuasca that many hold ayahuascan ritual up as the 'true way' or somehow less recreational..it's simply up to how these tools are approached..

anyone who's broken through knows how powerful a tool smoked DMT is..to achieve consistent results requires more focus than typical ayahuasca..

..IMO ayahuasca is more a way in for the common person..smoked DMT is at the threshold of what our cultural viewpoint can integrate..in other words, straight into the world of the spirits ready or not..

 

[jamie]

^ becasue you mentioned snuffs ...

the sanema people who use DMT and 5meoDMT containing snuffs seem to have a very interesting aspect to "shamanism" in their culture..nearly all the men are shamans! It is not just a select few rare individuals..nearly all the men in the tribe take virola snuffs and are all concidered shamans with hekula spirits and healing abilities...

It sort of makes the whole issue of who can qualify as a "shaman" more interesting..which is a debate that often comes up in discussions about ayahuasca and these other medicines and causes people to sort of take sides.

 

[nen888]

^..ah, the Hekula..

yeah good point jamie..what you mention is in my tribal experience inititation..once initiated then all have access to 'shamanic' territory..

its such an unfortunate modern phrase really, 'shaman'..i'm sure the people where the word comes from aren't too keen on it's casual use..

..i'll contrast ayahuasca vs snuffs this way then: aya more often than not centres around healing being done on people by a 'curandero'..at the curandero's circle, or under their guidance, one is helped to remove blockages etc.. (if it's a real curandero, not some new age guru) ; the snuffs orientate towards each individual connecting with the hekula (or similar) spirits, and bringing back knowledge/guidance from the spirit world..

i recall about 12-15 years ago there were serious bushfires in some amazon regions..the TV news featured footage of men doing the snuffs..the reason, they needed emergency guidance on where the game (to hunt) had gone, and where they should migrate to..

..a good curandero, in the ayahuasca context, is to me like a good osteopath/chiro etc..you see them and either you feel they've shifted something or not..if not, you look for a different one..that's the qualification, rather than waving around the right feathers etc..
.

 

[jamie]

I will say this about snuffing..lately this is all I have been working with for the most part. I have not been drinking ayahuasca and I have not been smoking much DMT at all. All the work I have been doing lately is with a snuffed mix of extracted harmalas and DMT on a weekly basis.

..and it is every bit as deep and healing as ayahuasca. It is essentially the same experience at the core, only it feels clearer and it is obviously faster than ayahuasca..it's right in between smoking and drinking. I dont know how virola compares becasue I have been using a mixture of rue harmalas and mimosa spice.


I would laugh if anyone tried to tell me their ayahausca ceremonies were more healing, shamanic or respectful etc..some people get weird when I tell them I have been snuffing DMT.

 

[nen888]

^..kudos jamie! ..i also have a lot of respect for the snuffs..incl. modern preparations..

personally, i find this the most useful of 'shamanic' (pardon the term) methods for access..
ayahuasca is simply one of a number of ways to connect with these plants..
in peru they have a snuff made with caapi and a 'mimosa'..

thanks for your observations jamie..

 

[jamie]

Here is a quote from Sachahambi at the ayahuasca forums from a thread where she posted an article she wrote..

"He also told me (there were a lot of things I had to leave out, the paper was limited to 10,000 words) that the Ashaninka boil down Chakruna to an extreme concentrate, dry it into powder, and add it to Mapacho snuff, which acts as enough of an MAOI to give effects that are "devastating" (his word) but very short-acting -- his description sounded a lot like smoked DMT."

http://forums.ayahuasca.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=27508&p=221280&hilit=virola#p221280

I think the whole idea that the only context for these plants is that they are brewed and drunk in the amazon is unlikely.

 

[jamie]

for anyone out there who has not seen this, it is relevant.

 

[obliguhl]

You have a point. But what is a ritual anyway?

One common definition is, that ritual is repetitive action to transform chaos into order by the use of (social) symbols. Daime ceremonies are certainly highly ritualistic, but the same goes for at least some "traditional" ceremonies. I've only studied the shamanistic Tradition of the Shipibo so i can only talk about them and their history. While reading, i noticed that many authors tried to explain the healing ceremony by ritual and there are indeed a couple of elements worth noting. The shaman uses a ton of cultural symbols to perform his ritual...for instance, he says that he has direct contact with doctores who are Inkas (the inkas are some sort of role models for the shipibo). Who does not want to be healed by powerful ancestorial spirits? OR the feeding of the spirits by blowing mapacho...who does not want the shamans spirit helpers to be well fed and ready to attack everything that is out there? Then the music, which has implications far beyond the ceremony, because the whole village hears the music and knows that healing is taking place and that they are benefiting from that too (because the ICAROS provoke normally invisible patterns which are healing)

It is true, that these ceremonies are less structured than Daime ceremonies, but that doesn't make them less ritualistic.

And yes, we do also have rituals in our everyday life, but we do not really see them as such or even celebrate them ...we tend to think of them as a bit silly, we devalue them by calling them "supersitious". But i think this might change in the future *knocks on wood*

 

[iracema]

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