Johnny_Anyseed
Rising Star
- Merits
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Re There Any Biblical correlations to dmt and aya?
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Biblical correlations to dmt and aya.
- Thread starter Johnny_Anyseed
- Start date
he book by michael harner : the way of the shaman.. .he has some experiences in there that correlate with the bible... actually a lot of aya experiences correlate with prophecy in the bible.. .. and correlate with other prophecies in other religions... it's all tied together... think about, if humans are one and we are one with all things.. then ALLLLL of everything is tied together... it takes all the pieces of the puzzle to see the whole picture...
- Merits
- 42
It's not DMT or Aya, but check out "Magic Mushrooms in Religion and Alchemy", by Clark Heinrich.
The author posits that from the Jewish mystics and prophets of Israel through the old testament, from the Rig Veda to the bible and Jesus and his disciples, and right up through esoteric traditions like alchemy, the Amanita muscaria mushroom cult has been pervasive, clandestine and evolving. Fascinating read if not always convincing, although a little further research into alchemy yielded an overwhelming pile of mushroom like images in the drawings, etchings paintings and various pictorials of the discipline.
Fungus fer thought!
JBArk
The author posits that from the Jewish mystics and prophets of Israel through the old testament, from the Rig Veda to the bible and Jesus and his disciples, and right up through esoteric traditions like alchemy, the Amanita muscaria mushroom cult has been pervasive, clandestine and evolving. Fascinating read if not always convincing, although a little further research into alchemy yielded an overwhelming pile of mushroom like images in the drawings, etchings paintings and various pictorials of the discipline.
Fungus fer thought!
JBArk
You might want to check out Fishers of Men: The Gospel of an Ayahuasca Vision Quest. Heard about it in this interview with the author. Also, isn't Strassman working on a book about Jewish prophecy and ayahuasca analogues?
Elf Machine
Rising Star
- Merits
- 42
Religious studies has been my passion for about the past 6 years and I too am curious about possible hallicinagen use in the history of the abrahamic religions. I haven't found anything very convincing so far but I'd like to see more discussion about it. I can assert the Quran is explicit in it's prohibition of recreational drugs and alcohol.
Lifting_the_veil
Rising Star
- Merits
- 42
This is a topic that also interest me. Thanks for the suggested books on the matter, any others?
Im interested in learning more about the UDV and Santo Dimes christian themes. Every experience I have had would seem to go against a christian belief system. I have always considered myself to be agnostic, however, after my recent voyages I have started to speak about DMT with spiritual reverance and have even caught myself proselytizing.
Im interested in learning more about the UDV and Santo Dimes christian themes. Every experience I have had would seem to go against a christian belief system. I have always considered myself to be agnostic, however, after my recent voyages I have started to speak about DMT with spiritual reverance and have even caught myself proselytizing.
- Merits
- 42
The Quran mentions intoxicants 3 times and as Its revelation proceeded its position evolved, as evidenced by the 3 verses:
(2.219) They ask you about wine and games of chance.Say "In both there is great evil, even though there is some benefit for people, but their evil is greater than their benefit".
(4.43) Believers!Do not draw near to the Prayer while you are intoxicated until you know what you are saying.....
(5.90) Believers! Intoxicants, games of chance, idolatrous sacrifices at altars and divining arrows are all abominations, the handiwork of Satan.So turn wholly away from it that you may attain to true success.
(2.219) They ask you about wine and games of chance.Say "In both there is great evil, even though there is some benefit for people, but their evil is greater than their benefit".
(4.43) Believers!Do not draw near to the Prayer while you are intoxicated until you know what you are saying.....
(5.90) Believers! Intoxicants, games of chance, idolatrous sacrifices at altars and divining arrows are all abominations, the handiwork of Satan.So turn wholly away from it that you may attain to true success.
^^Are psychedelics considered intoxicants by different Muslims from different cultures? I know things like use of Khat and hash/weed tend to vary among the individual and their culture in different Muslim societies. Usually it seeems to me to depend on whether or not they view it as an intoxicant or not.
- Merits
- 42
Another book of possible interest:
The Sacred Mushroom and the Cross, by John M. Allegro (an eminent dead sea scroll scholar who challenged orthodox views of the scrolls and subsequent to publishing this book was discredited and eschewed by academia).
I say "possible interest" because the book has been on my shelf for over a year, but hasn't made it to the top of my list yet, so it remains unread.
I'll try to track down others. All these books, of course, although interesting, should be read with a skeptics eye and be taken for what they are - speculation. Fascinating and entertaining speculation that is at times utterly convincing, but speculation nevertheless.
JBArk
The Sacred Mushroom and the Cross, by John M. Allegro (an eminent dead sea scroll scholar who challenged orthodox views of the scrolls and subsequent to publishing this book was discredited and eschewed by academia).
I say "possible interest" because the book has been on my shelf for over a year, but hasn't made it to the top of my list yet, so it remains unread.
I'll try to track down others. All these books, of course, although interesting, should be read with a skeptics eye and be taken for what they are - speculation. Fascinating and entertaining speculation that is at times utterly convincing, but speculation nevertheless.
JBArk
- Merits
- 42
Thats a very good question, Burnt
In the days of the Prophet the intoxicant which was available in the desert terrain of Mecca and Medina was just alcoholic drinks and these were frowned upon by Mohammed and then later a clear prohibition on its consumption was declared.
When I was in Yemen in 2008 every male was walking around looking like a hamster with their cheeks full of khat.I asked "Isnt this haram (ie forbidden)?" and they assured me strongly that it wasnt!And generallly speaking the people of Yemen are properly observant.....so it would have been rude to not partake of the Khat with them:wink:
Funnily enough in Afghanistan in 2002 the hotel I stayed in had a 'fixer' guy who gesticulated to me as I was about to enter the hotel room in a conspiratorial 'hush hush' fashion and pulled out a bottle of whiskey and offered me a swig.Hand on heart I have never touched alcohol so far in my life (and I doubt I will) and I refused.I asked him about hashish and opium and he said he much preferred whiskey but being a helpful kind of guy he did organise a little of each for me.The Afghan hash he got was superior even to the stuff you can get in Amsterdam.
Ive never come across proper psychedelics in any of the Islamic countries Ive visited but the prohibition on all intoxicants is an established part of the Creed of Islam and this has been deduced by analogical deduction.
In the days of the Prophet the intoxicant which was available in the desert terrain of Mecca and Medina was just alcoholic drinks and these were frowned upon by Mohammed and then later a clear prohibition on its consumption was declared.
When I was in Yemen in 2008 every male was walking around looking like a hamster with their cheeks full of khat.I asked "Isnt this haram (ie forbidden)?" and they assured me strongly that it wasnt!And generallly speaking the people of Yemen are properly observant.....so it would have been rude to not partake of the Khat with them:wink:
Funnily enough in Afghanistan in 2002 the hotel I stayed in had a 'fixer' guy who gesticulated to me as I was about to enter the hotel room in a conspiratorial 'hush hush' fashion and pulled out a bottle of whiskey and offered me a swig.Hand on heart I have never touched alcohol so far in my life (and I doubt I will) and I refused.I asked him about hashish and opium and he said he much preferred whiskey but being a helpful kind of guy he did organise a little of each for me.The Afghan hash he got was superior even to the stuff you can get in Amsterdam.
Ive never come across proper psychedelics in any of the Islamic countries Ive visited but the prohibition on all intoxicants is an established part of the Creed of Islam and this has been deduced by analogical deduction.
Elf Machine
Rising Star
- Merits
- 42
Most religious followers do not strictly adhere to their scripture so their habits may be a poor indicator. I am more interested in literature that may point to hallucinogen use before or during revelation.
Johnny_Anyseed
Rising Star
- Merits
- 42
Thanks for the awesome books guys!
Ever since I did psychedelics, I've felt as if they have a strong effect on religious beliefs and experiences throughout human history. You sure can feel like the son of god after a good fall into the rabbit hole!
Ever since I did psychedelics, I've felt as if they have a strong effect on religious beliefs and experiences throughout human history. You sure can feel like the son of god after a good fall into the rabbit hole!
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