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Bufotenine Extraction

Migrated topic.
Thanks. So if you defat the seeds with cold xylene before you freebase like what endlessness was saying, the fats are soluble and come out with the xylene right?
 
SWIM has a question for anybody...i read somewhere that you can test your seeds by smoking one of them right out of the shell..first of all is this true..and second of all..how does that work? if they are salts in the seeds..how could you smoke one and get any sort of decent effects?

oh and another question.. is bufotenine soluble in 95% ethanol...salt or freebase?
 
Has anyone noticed that heptane leaves a sort of film residue when it is evaporated? SWIM tested multiple bottles and got the same result. He scrubbed the pyrex dish, rinsed with distilled water, dried and made sure there wasn't any residue, then put a bit of pure bestine/heptane in the dish, stretched a t-shirt over it so it wouldn't get any dust, and still got a film residue. What might this be?
 
Jorkest said:
SWIM has a question for anybody...i read somewhere that you can test your seeds by smoking one of them right out of the shell..first of all is this true..and second of all..how does that work? if they are salts in the seeds..how could you smoke one and get any sort of decent effects?
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Very good point. The seeds are smokeable as is, but the effects are much better if they are freebased with ammonia before smoking them. The effect from the untreated seeds is not as unpleasant as bufotenine hydrochloride (also smokable), but not as pleasant as freebase bufotenine either. It’s somewhere in between. I would love to know what salt form it is. Whatever salt form it is, it’s insoluble in acetone according to SWIM’s tests, and nearly insoluble in 99% IPA (but very soluble in 91% IPA). Freebase bufotenine is soluble in acetone and 99% IPA.

Jorkest said:
oh and another question.. is bufotenine soluble in 95% ethanol...salt or freebase?
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Both are soluble in it according to SWIM's tests.
 
so perhaps...you could just extract with 95% ethanol..you would have the fats and the bufotenine..plus probably a bunch of everything else...so then you could easily defat the evaporated stuff by putting it in MEK or acetone..instead of defatting all the seeds..
 
this would also keep you from converting them into other salts..which may or may not affect the molecule...you know...basifying it twice and salting once..might damage the molecule..so this way..you leave the bufo in its natural state...defat resin..and then basify with sodium carbonate..and then pull with MEK:heptane..or pull with MEK first to separate any solids...evap that..and then do the MEK:heptane..or xylene boil....would d-limonene work for in place of xylene???
 
Just wondering, if swim wanted to test how potent his seeds were, what would be a good amount to smoke? Just take about 3 seeds, remove the husks, powder them and smoke? Hold in the smoke for how long?

(SWIM just ordered his seeds today btw :))

E.C.
 
SWIM would just test one out...3 seeds is going to be tough to smoke...toast your seed a little first to dry it out so it burns better..and then put it in a bowl and torch it...and hold your hit in if you can for 15-20 seconds...

its not going to feel so nice..but you will most likely feel effects if they are potent enough
 
you could probably come up with one really easily...

SWIM was wondering though...are the salt forms of bufotenine in the seeds soluble in MEK?
 
wonderful!

so far this ethanol extraction is working out very nicely

SWIM is just about done defatting the bufotenine salts that he extracted from the seeds with ethanol..hes defatting with MEK..and then hes going to freebase once with sodium carbonate..and then pull with MEK:heptane..or pull with MEK and evaporate and THEN pull with MEK:heptane..

with the other TEK that SWIM was using..he had to freebase twice and do FASA...and he experienced more loss than he had hoped...so with this ethanol extraction..there is only one freebase and no salting...much less hassle..

SWIM has been thinking of a way to do this as 'naturally' as possible..he wants to do a ethanol extraction on the seeds...then defat with either acetone or d-limonene..or both...and then freebase with sodium carbonate..and then pull with acetone to separate any solids..and then find out a d-limonene:acetone ratio that could separate the toxins...

is it possible to use d-limonene and acetone this way?
 
Jorkest said:
SWIM has been thinking of a way to do this as 'naturally' as possible..he wants to do a ethanol extraction on the seeds...then defat with either acetone or d-limonene..or both...and then freebase with sodium carbonate..and then pull with acetone to separate any solids..and then find out a d-limonene:acetone ratio that could separate the toxins...

is it possible to use d-limonene and acetone this way?
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I very much like your thinking here. It would definitely work.

A mix of d-limonene and acetone would absolutely work if the correct ratio was found. The beauty of using food grade d-limonene is that it has a very high boiling point (176 C). The high boiling point would allow you to boil off the acetone (boils at 56 C) to speed up crystallization of the bufotenine. So that’s a really big plus. And then the smell of d-limonene is delicious! Mmmmm…oranges. I love the smell.

Food grade d-limonene is similar to xylene in many ways, but less polar, almost as non-polar as heptane, but then it’s ALL NATURAL, FOOD GRADE, and NON-TOXIC when used in reasonable amounts. Any d-limonene residue remaining would be 100% safe to ingest.

I like the idea.

I was also wondering if a d-limonene boil would work like a xylene boil does. SWIM will try that when he has some free time. Right now he has too much pure freebase bufotenine sitting around from his last extraction. He doesn't know what to do with all of it. He's not likely to do another extraction for many months, but will be doing various tests with the bufotenine (solubility tests mostly).
 
SWIM is just so tired of using stinky solvents...xylene is absolutely gross..and heptane isnt too bad..but its also not as sweet as d-limonene..

do you think if you boiled d-limonene it would make the bufotenine soluble in it?

edit:haha we had the same thought then...when SWIM gets his d-limonene he will test it out
 
what were SWIY's yields of pure bufotenine(say at least 90% bufo) from 100g?

and how much gunk do you think you were able to separate?(in grams)
 
hmm..another thought..you could probably save a lot of ethanol if you used a soxhlet..and get lots of the bufo...
 
Jorkest said:
what were SWIY's yields of pure bufotenine(say at least 90% bufo) from 100g?

and how much gunk do you think you were able to separate?(in grams)
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Sorry, SWIM didn't keep track of it. I'd guess about 3% including the gunk, and about 1.8% after the cleanup. Just a rough guess though.

Judging by the crystal structure, color, and the fact that SWIM’s bufotenine doesn’t leave any residue behind after vaporizing it, I’d say it’s about 95% pure at least.

The gunk is pretty much void of bufotenine, but still mildly psychoactive. Makes you quite sick to smoke it though. There might be something other than bufotenine left behind worth extracting from it. It’s hard to say. I’m sure there’s bufotenine N-oxide in it. I’m not sure if that’s worth recovering. I’m sure it’s responsible for a lot of the unpleasantness.
 
Jorkest said:
hmm..another thought..you could probably save a lot of ethanol if you used a soxhlet..and get lots of the bufo...
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For sure. SWIM uses 91% IPA with a Soxhlet all the time and it works very well and is very cheap. (Note that 99% IPA doesn't work well at all). Ethanol would work even better. Methanol would be THE BEST.
 


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