Caapi Preparation

[WSaged]

I too just ordered up some Caapi for the first time yesterday. Although I got it through a diff verdor (BBB), as I had not heard of Maya before the mention in this thread.

I ordered:
1/4lb of white vine
1/4lb of shredded black vine (only type they had pre-shredded)
...and an once of Blue lotus flowers, which I've been wanting to try soaking in wine.
The Blue Lotus is also a gift for my sister, she is way into ancient Egyptian religion & healing practices etc...
I can't wait to surprise her with a bottle of Lotus-Merlot & and some MJ/Lotus blended smoke!! Will definitely make her day!!

Has anyone here ever used Lotus leaves as a bed for smoking spice on?
The effects of the DMT would over power the Lotus I'd guess, but as you are coming out of the trance, they might go well together.
And I'm sure it would help with the taste of the smoke!!

Anyway,
Could you please post a link to that "cold extraction" tek for Caapi you mentioned?
I would appreciate it very much!!
I've made S. Rue tea a few times before, with nice results, but I'm really looking forward to learning from the true Ayahuasca vine!!

Also, I have never noticed any reactions to certain foods when using S.Rue and I recently have read in a number of places that natural MAOI's are not as dangerous as Pharmaceutical MAOI's, as far as food reactions go.
Is there any truth to this, in your experiences?
With Caapi, is it really important to follow the MAOI diet? Or is it like S.Rue, were you should be aware of what your eating & not over do any of the "dangerous" foods?

Thanks for all the great info in this thread fellas!!!

WS

 

[polytrip]

I wouldn't risk it with the food. Even if you don't get a heart attack or a stroke, just getting a realy unpleasant trip is not a good thing. I have to say, this food thing is one of the things i like the least of ayahuasca. I always worry about the stuff i've eaten, like was that banana too ripened? was that cheese too old? etc.

 

[Infinite I]

Heres a link to the thread warrensage. http://forums.ayahuasca.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=16718&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

Thats a quick overview of the set up, though think you have to register to get into the preperation section. Theres another thread in that section 16 pages long, im on page 11 been reading most of the day and night, im very excited, daggers saying hes getting active cappi at 6 grams! :shock: Im very excited about this, and it looks very very easy! Also even with normal slow brewing for long periods of time someone got strong experiences with 10g vine and 1.5g leaf! :shock: They must be experiencerd brewers but still it just shows you, ive been taking 100g for a strong experience and its not cheap at those doses!

I was wondering dagger when you have filtred the 23.5 litres in the extraction do you just reduce it and thats it? or do you put some of it back through the filtration system?? And how much vinegar do you use? 5-10ml a litre? Thanks again!

 

[Infinite I]

Sorry warren didnt respond to your other points, im just wrapped up in this cold water extraction thing lol I do avoid the danger foods with cappi, and do try to do better, but think a lot of people follow the spiritual dieta which isnt the same as the maoi diet, like the rue diet, at first I was really good with my diet now im not that great, western lifestyle gets in the way :roll:

Id love to know how you get on with the blue lily in wine, I tried that with my g/f a few times and we never got anything Though when smoked in a joint the effects were noticable, but very mild, seemed to be the more you smoked the more it effected you, know that sounds daft but was like after 3 one skin joints it built and built, but not really worth it imo never done it with the spice though.

 

[endlessness]

Also, I have never noticed any reactions to certain foods when using S.Rue and I recently have read in a number of places that natural MAOI's are not as dangerous as Pharmaceutical MAOI's, as far as food reactions go.
Is there any truth to this, in your experiences?
With Caapi, is it really important to follow the MAOI diet? Or is it like S.Rue, were you should be aware of what your eating & not over do any of the "dangerous" foods?

Thanks for all the great info in this thread fellas!!!

WS

I wouldn't risk it with the food. Even if you don't get a heart attack or a stroke, just getting a realy unpleasant trip is not a good thing. I have to say, this food thing is one of the things i like the least of ayahuasca. I always worry about the stuff i've eaten, like was that banana too ripened? was that cheese too old? etc.

Dont worry warrensaged, there is no danger. The harmala alkaloids are basically the same in caapi and rue (ok a bit different, since caapi has more harmine and tetrahidroharmine while rue has more harmaline, but this makes no difference in terms of food interaction)


the harmala MAOIs are reversible inhibitors that act mainly on MAO-a.. tyramine (which is what is responsible for dietary problematic interactions with MAOI) is eliminated basically only by MAO-b .. All the warnings of diet and MAOI interaction concern pharmaceutical non-reversible MAOIs, which, differently from caapi or syrian rue, act on MAO-b.

plus, both the harmalas and also tyramine are all eliminated from the body in a few hours, so if you fasted for a couple of hours before ingesting the brew, its already enough for most, if not all, of the tyramine to have been eliminated. Also if you eat something a few hours after the trip, the harmalas will have been eliminated too

So the amount of interaction is minimum. I know several people who have eaten tyramine-rich food and had no problem at all.. There have been some reports of headaches and so on, but there have been reports of headaches without tyramine food too, so cause-and-effect in this case is hard to establish.


I think the real dietary concern is not about tyramine, but it´s just a matter of good sense and respect to your body.. I mean, you dont want to be eating industrialized or heavy food just before or after the experience, since you will have a sensitive stomach (and soul), so that would be too aggressive. Also, the whole experience is about getting more conscious in general, more healthy and so on, so it would be a contradiction and disrespect to be eating all gluttonous, or bad food in general, etc..


btw, the interactions with medication, specially SSRI anti-depressives, is still a concern! What I talk about here is the food and caapi/rue interaction.

 

[WSaged]

Thanks a Lot guys!!

I definitely watch what I eat before & after taking Rue but I don't go overboard. Its mostly because I have a sky high metabolism and have to eat every couple of hours at least, in order to keep blood sugar correct anyway, just to feel normal!! So when I've taken the Rue teas, I try to keep my diet simple just to keep my stomach feeling good!!

I'm mainly just want to know as much about these things as I can before stepping into it.

Thanks again for all the excellent advice!!

WS

 

[prottel]

daggers saying hes getting active cappi at 6 grams

About that, but I usually don't go that low, but it should probably inhibitit dmt satisfactory. My girlfriend uses 7.7g caapi and it works fine for her.

Also even with normal slow brewing for long periods of time someone got strong experiences with 10g vine and 1.5g leaf!

I know druiddream has gotten potent caapi at 10g from slow cooking in a crookpot for many hours. Although I haven't heard anyone else get that result. He is also relatively sensitive to these things. 1.5g chaliponga? Possibly, some of the chaliponga from maya is good at 4-5 gram, or so I hear.

I was wondering dagger when you have filtred the 23.5 litres in the extraction do you just reduce it and thats it? or do you put some of it back through the filtration system?? And how much vinegar do you use? 5-10ml a litre?

After I send it through the bottle, I just add it to a big low boiling casserole. The casserole(s) can almost keep up with the liquid coming through. When I got like 2 liter of brew left in the casserole, I use an egg white to clear out all the particles. Then I filter it, leaving a crystal clear brew. Then I reduce it to the desired amount. Ofcourse, as you continue to reduce, more particles will come out of solution, but it will be less. Besides, the particles doesn't taste bad. Then when done, I add some milk to the drink and drink it. The milk(casein) binds with the particles. And perhaps making it a tad easier to drink.

I do not send anything through again. When it comes to vinegar I use perhaps 15 ml per liter. Never really measured any. Just pour a tad in every time I add more water.

With Caapi, is it really important to follow the MAOI diet? Or is it like S.Rue, were you should be aware of what your eating & not over do any of the "dangerous" foods?

Well, I never really follow it closely. I just don't eat for 3 hours before taking ayahuasca. Bananas isn't a problem at 3 hours before. I know they had it at the center espiritu de anaconda, so don't think they worried too much about it. But yes, I have heard of some that has gotten splitting headaches, for up to days after eating certain things. Some has even gotten it from coffee. But it seems to be different from person to person. Some seem to be able to eat almost anything without sideeffects. But really, never heard of anyone dying from any reaction. It's just very uncomfortable. Never noticed anything myself. And I don't know of any difference between caapi and rue when it comes to maoi diet.

Ill let you know how we go

Looking forward to hearing the results

 

[WSaged]

I just read over Dagger's cold extraction tek that Infinite posted a link to.

Sounds like it is a good way to make personal doses instead of a big pot of brew.
And sounds quite simple!!
I have a Bucher funnel/filter setup that I use during Mimosa extraction, I'm thinking of how I can rig up a larger "bottle" to it so I can use the vacuum flask to help speed the process up a bit. I suppose I could just get a bigger funnel that would hold more water.

Could someone "clarify" the "egg"white" cleaning tek?

Thanks!!

WS

 

[prottel]

I'm thinking of how I can rig up a larger "bottle" to it so I can use the vacuum flask to help speed the process up a bit. I suppose I could just get a bigger funnel that would hold more water.

Larger bottles works. Although it is the height that makes the water move through faster. Heck, you could even use a 2 meter tube, and use a fine mesh cloth on the end. With the 'cold' filtration method, you don't really need to worry about clogging the filter, as it needs more heat to pull out the stuff that clogs it.

Could someone "clarify" the "egg"white" cleaning tek?

The egg white tech is where you take an egg white or more depending on size of brew and add it to the brew you want to clarify. Add it to a brew, then start to stirr the brew in a circular manner. Always remember to keep it moving, since if it stops, there is a large likelyhood that the egg white will coagulate before it should. As it closes in on boiling, small particles will start to pop up to the surface, and in the end making a pancake looking thing. Take it to a boil for a minute, then take it off the stove. Then filter it. Should leave a crystal clear brew. Also, it removes tannins from mimosa brews, making for a much more palatable brew. Works on all kinds of brews. Sometimes, if the pH is too high, this process does not work, then you might add some vinegar and redo the process. But I think a pH of 4-5 should work fine. Not quite sure of the pH where it stops working...

 

[acolon_5]

I'm thinking of how I can rig up a larger "bottle" to it so I can use the vacuum flask to help speed the process up a bit. I suppose I could just get a bigger funnel that would hold more water.

Larger bottles works. Although it is the height that makes the water move through faster. Heck, you could even use a 2 meter tube, and use a fine mesh cloth on the end. With the 'cold' filtration method, you don't really need to worry about clogging the filter, as it needs more heat to pull out the stuff that clogs it.

Could someone "clarify" the "egg"white" cleaning tek?

The egg white tech is where you take an egg white or more depending on size of brew and add it to the brew you want to clarify. Add it to a brew, then start to stirr the brew in a circular manner. Always remember to keep it moving, since if it stops, there is a large likelyhood that the egg white will coagulate before it should. As it closes in on boiling, small particles will start to pop up to the surface, and in the end making a pancake looking thing. Take it to a boil for a minute, then take it off the stove. Then filter it. Should leave a crystal clear brew. Also, it removes tannins from mimosa brews, making for a much more palatable brew. Works on all kinds of brews. Sometimes, if the pH is too high, this process does not work, then you might add some vinegar and redo the process. But I think a pH of 4-5 should work fine. Not quite sure of the pH where it stops working...

I did an egg white filtration on a brew this past weekend. It works great! Nice golden color before reducing, not the usual mud-like brew I usually get. Very nice. I used 2 large egg white for a 200gram caapi 50 gram chali brew.

Remember that the brew needs to be acidic before adding the egg whites.

I'm glad people are looking over at the aya forum...there is a ton of very good information on Ayahuasca over there.

 

[WSaged]

"warrensaged" wrote:

I'm thinking of how I can rig up a larger "bottle" to it so I can use the vacuum flask to help speed the process up a bit. I suppose I could just get a bigger funnel that would hold more water.

Larger bottles works. Although it is the height that makes the water move through faster. Heck, you could even use a 2 meter tube, and use a fine mesh cloth on the end. With the 'cold' filtration method, you don't really need to worry about clogging the filter, as it needs more heat to pull out the stuff that clogs it.

I just meant larger than my 110mm Buchner funnel. As the funnel sizes increase, they get wider, not taller, so I guess I will rig up a bottle of some kind.

Dagger,what are you using on the screw-cap end of the bottle (the side facing down in the tek)? Its looks like there is a cap on your bottle, but not bottle's own cap.
I would guess one doesn't need a cap because of the cotton stopper, I'm just interested in what you have going in those pics.

Thanks!!

WS

 

[prottel]

Dagger,what are you using on the screw-cap end of the bottle (the side facing down in the tek)? Its looks like there is a cap on your bottle, but not bottle's own cap.
I would guess one doesn't need a cap because of the cotton stopper, I'm just interested in what you have going in those pics.

I don't have anything at the screw-cap end of the bottle, besides the cotton. Just pull of a big piece of cotton and stuff it in there. Works great.

Oh yeah, now I remember. The thing at the end of the bottle might be a rubber stopper I have used on my small vacuum setup, just didn't bother to remove it. Goes faster, but I find it easier to do without the vacuum setup and just add water every 30-90 minutes or so.

Ofcourse, if you got a 5 liter vacuum flask and an electric vacuum pump, that might make it quicker. Then again, you have to reduce it... Also, if you only do one brew at a time, a vacuum flask might be quicker. I do 200 gram at a time, giving me about 20 doses

 

[WSaged]

I do 200 gram at a time, giving me about 20 doses

That reminds me of another question, How long can you keep the Caapi tea refrigerated before it looses its potency or goes bad?

In my experience with making S.Rue tea, It's easier to cook up more than just a single dose, so I usually do make more. But I've noticed that if it sits in the fridge for more than a week or so, it loses some of its quality's. So even though I make more than one dose every time, I usually make fresh tea every time I want to use it.
I end up giving the rest away to friends, letting them know they should use it within a week or so.

While there is still a clear MAO inhibition, the "life", or "spirit" of the experience seems to be missing. The DMT lasts much longer, 1 to 1.5 hours, and the visions are still beautiful!! But their "meaning" isn't being show to me, They are not trying to "communicate"!!

So how long can you fellas normally keep your Caapi teas/brews before they loose their "spirit"??

Great thread!!! ...& just in time for my Caapi purchases!!

 

[DMTripper]

So I've been looking around at the different vender's and some of them offer different types of Cappi.
Can any of you chaps with some experience with the vine explain any differences between White, Yellow, Red & Black Cappi vine?
Are there any differences?
Do you have any preferences of one over the other?

I wouldn't worry too much about colour. The most used ones are yellow/ourinhos and white. If you want some potent caapi, get the white shredded caapi from maya. With the cold extraction tech and lots of heated water, 11g is almost too much. Inhibition around 6-7 gram.

I've used the white caapi from Maya and like I said earlier in this thread 20gr. was almost too much. I didn't do a cold extraction, but boiled it for around 7 hours and then boiled it down to around 100ml. It tasted horrible but worked good.

I heard somewhere on Aya forum that black caapi can vary a lot in potency and can make you very sick. I've never tried black caapi so I can't confirm that.

 

[prottel]

So how long can you fellas normally keep your Caapi teas/brews before they loose their "spirit"??

I have not noticed any loss of "spirit" with caapi. Seems to remain stable in the fridge, although after perhaps 2 months it might mold. I usually keep some in the freezer and some in the fridge. About the rue, not sure if it actually is something to it or not, but I also seem to remember that it could lose potency over time.

If I put it in a glass bowl or something and set it in the oven, then reduced it to a tar, it actually seemed to increase its potency, usually about twice as potent. Don't know what happens but I guess it might have something to do with conversion to a more potent form?

It tasted horrible but worked good.

That is another benefit of "cold" water extraction. Tastes better. At boiling temperatures you extract some brownish compounds that when hot, you don't see it, but when you cool it, it turns opaque and brown. Egg white won't help with clearing that out, although milk/casein might. With cold extraction and 60-65 C you still extract some, but only a tad compared to when cooking, with room temperature water, you won't extract any of it.

Another way to remove this crap is to put the brew in the fridge, then thaw it and let things settle, then decant. Should give you a clear brew, although some of the actives might be lost in settling.

One interesting thing I have noticed, perhaps someone might know what happens. If I reduce a caapi brew down to a small amount, then take it off the stove, and quickly add ice cold water to it, then quickly filter it, all the actives gets stuck in the filter. The stuff that comes through tastes sweet (actives bitter). After some minutes, the actives starts coming through again. Did the actives come out of solution by adding cold water? I know when I do it, the brew turns whitish for a while...

 

[WSaged]

"warrensaged" wrote:
Could someone "clarify" the "egg"white" cleaning tek?

The egg white tech is where you take an egg white or more depending on size of brew and add it to the brew you want to clarify. Add it to a brew, then start to stirr the brew in a circular manner. Always remember to keep it moving, since if it stops, there is a large likelyhood that the egg white will coagulate before it should. As it closes in on boiling, small particles will start to pop up to the surface, and in the end making a pancake looking thing. Take it to a boil for a minute, then take it off the stove. Then filter it. Should leave a crystal clear brew. Also, it removes tannins from mimosa brews, making for a much more palatable brew. Works on all kinds of brews. Sometimes, if the pH is too high, this process does not work, then you might add some vinegar and redo the process. But I think a pH of 4-5 should work fine. Not quite sure of the pH where it stops working...

Do you remove the "pancake looking thing" or do you filter with it still in the pot?

Thx

WS

 

[prottel]

Do you remove the "pancake looking thing" or do you filter with it still in the pot?

I guess you can choose which you want to do. I usually scoop up the worst, then pour the rest into a filter. When all is filtered through, you can add what you scooped out to the filter, then add more water. Should get out most of the actives stuck in the material.

 

[WSaged]

Much obliged for y'all clearin that up!

My first Caapi order should arrive today, I ended up also ordering some pre-shredded, yellow vine from another vendor, in addition to the pre-shredded black & whole white vine I ordered earlier this week.

Is there any reason to not mix the different species of Caapi vine in one tea or Aya brew?
Except of course, to get to know their individual effects.

A couple of you cats mentioned earlier in this thread, about the black vine haveing a strong body load & more of a necessity to purge, so I'm not wanting to try the black vine by itself right away.
Is there any reason why I couldn't add a small bit of it to the other white & yellow teas/brews that I make?
Does it blend together nicely or does one type overpower another if mixed together?

I'm hoping to be able to cold-filter some Caapi tea tonight or tomorrow, for a smoked + MAOI session planned for Monday. (a US national holiday & official day off work!!)

Once again, Thank you much for all the info!!!!

WS

 

[acolon_5]

Is there any reason why I couldn't add a small bit of it to the other white & yellow teas/brews that I make?
Does it blend together nicely or does one type overpower another if mixed together?

I've mixed mine before without any problems. I really can't tell much difference between yellow and white.

 

[WSaged]

So I received my first order of Caapi yesterday & I'm doing my first cold filtration on some of the White Vine now. It seems to be working wonderfully!!

The Caapi vine has such an enchanting smell! Kind of reminds me of Sage!!
I must say, even though I know it sounds a bit weird, but I swear I could feel the energy in the pieces of vine!!
I let it tell me which pieces & how much to use!!
I then weighed it to see how much it was, It ended up being exactly 50 grams (on a digital scale), which is how much I had planned to use in the first place!! Coincidence? Maybe, maybe not.

Definitly a powerful plant!!

WS