calea zacatechichi - dream herb/lucid dream

[frost458]

sup o/

calea zacatechichi is a plant said to enhance dreaming, even allowing one to experience lucid dreams,
according to forums people make 1g joint or 2g tea and it works for some.
I think this is only placebo effect because

according to this study : Filesonic - The unlimited place to sell your data
the chontal indian take around 60g of dried leave to make a tea, wich would be drank before going to sleep.

Now what the scientist did was the following : makin an hexane extract followed by a methanol extract (with a soxhlet apartus) yielding 2 resin, one containing the non-polar part of the plant on the polar part.

I did ALMOST the same thing, the study clearly show that the active part is present in the polar part, plus the chontal make tea therefor also get the polar part (water is a polar solvent), that's why I only did the methanol extract.

I ended up with 8g of resin.

Now, i'm quite reluctant to taking it because they got 5.1g of resin wich is almost 2 times less! but since I did not do the hexane extract first, would it be possible that some part of the resin is soluble in both polar and non-polar solvent? thus explaining why I have more product.

what is you opinion?
should I take everything? or should I try little by little : 1g then 2g the next week, 3g the next, etc?

the problem is that calea is quite expensive, and making the resin is time consuming (2 days extraction, 5 days evaporation)
you are not even sure of getting "active" calea, there is 2 strain wich are indinstinguishable (is that english xD?), chontal know wich ones are active because they have already tried them.

thanks

edit*********

try1 : 1g taken in pills before sleep, nothing happened

 

[kyrolima]

Calea definitly has an effect - Just take some leaves, put them in the vaporizer and vape.

 

[Global]

I smoke the leaves and would be 97% sure it's not placebo. It has made my dreams incredibly realistic in terms of touch, texture, motion, color, storyline...It has also invited entities that can appear in any number of forms that seem to paralyze my "dream self", so I would be careful in some regards.

 

[frost458]

"sure it's not placebo"

there is no way of saying that since placebo is "real"
some people die in double blind study from placebo (in that case called nocedo) effect, they are given something harmfull but they will still die because of the nocebo effect.

I read that the vaping temp was "up to 130°C" however I can only find copy/paste of that all over the net, I never found the source.
I once tried to vap 3g of this (0.5g by 0.5g) it did nothing to me, eitheir it's not enought or i've got some of the inactive strain.

dreams incredibly realistic in terms of touch, texture, motion, color, storyline

dream are not usually realistic in terms of touch, texture, motion, color?
I dream a lot and those 4 parameter are always realistic in my dreams, the only unrealistic thing are the following :

-story
have you ever protected a military base against a flying whale wearing a postman uniform execpt she has bomb instead of letter?

-law of physics
I was amazed of how my friend was able to get a nice beam with a 3W laser and a non blindind dot on the wall,
or each time I turn my sight away from a computer what's on the screen changes

I always detect those aberation in the law a physic but never realise that it's a dream, shame

 

[Global]

"sure it's not placebo"

there is no way of saying that since placebo is "real"
some people die in double blind study from placebo (in that case called nocedo) effect, they are given something harmfull but they will still die because of the nocebo effect.

I read that the vaping temp was "up to 130°C" however I can only find copy/paste of that all over the net, I never found the source.
I once tried to vap 3g of this (0.5g by 0.5g) it did nothing to me, eitheir it's not enought or i've got some of the inactive strain.

dreams incredibly realistic in terms of touch, texture, motion, color, storyline

dream are not usually realistic in terms of touch, texture, motion, color?
I dream a lot and those 4 parameter are always realistic in my dreams, the only unrealistic thing are the following :

-story
have you ever protected a military base against a flying whale wearing a postman uniform execpt she has bomb instead of letter?

-law of physics
I was amazed of how my friend was able to get a nice beam with a 3W laser and a non blindind dot on the wall,
or each time I turn my sight away from a computer what's on the screen changes

I always detect those aberation in the law a physic but never realise that it's a dream, shame

Of course I can't be positive it's not placebo. I'm completely aware of the powerful quality the placebo effect can have. I'm letting you know that subjectively even though my dreams used to experience all those parameters, they become intrinsically more bizarre with ever-increasing recollection and higher rates of plots overlapping into eachother to form one fluid dream experience with increased incidences and qualitative augmentations of those parameters. Something else that suggests to me that it's not placebo was that I never experienced sleep paralysis till I smoked the calea and it's not like when I'm in the dream I remember I smoked calea and that's why I must be having sleep paralysis. Before going to sleep I can also feel a distinctive head/body high that's distinguishable from any other substance I take.

 

[frost458]

well then, better be safe than sorry, i'll buy some more and do an other extract, in the mean time :

I will dissolve 1g of resin (6g of leaf) in water, cap it, swallow the caps and go to bed with an alarm waking me up every 2h.
(waking up multiple times allow you to remember a lot more)

====off topic
about your sleep paralysis, I am sometime experiencing sleep paralysis (I had 6 occurences), it usually occurs when I'm under heavy sleep deprivation (I don't like to sleep, so much things to do) and each times i'm convince that there is "a spirit" in the room with me and that i'm gonna die.

even tho I know this is not true and the fact that I do not believe in the supernatural, when i'm experiencing sleep paralysis i'm convince that there is a spirit, presence, ghost, demon or whatever here to get me!

is it the same for you?

 

[Global]

It depends. They've taken on such a variety of forms, and I've had such varying levels of awareness as to what they were and what was going on. They've come in the forms of my little cousins and would do things like sneak up behind me and paralyze me (kind of like an intense electrifying buzzing that prevents me from moving). Sometimes they're unseen, and other times they take on more abstract dark fantasy kind of forms. If I'm unaware it's a dream, it can be quite threatening and frightening, but if I'm aware it's a dream, then I can usually do something with my mind that allows me to temporarily move about. Usually if I "concede" in any sort of way (i.e. let my body go limp) during these occasions the paralysis will kick in and if I surrender to the sensation it may go away. There have been times where the entities literally grab me by the balls which as you may imagine can be one of the most unsettling things that can happen to you in a dream :lol: There have been one or two occasions where the sleep paralysis has led to lucid astral projection where I'm freed from my body and seem to have the ability to fly about wherever I like in what seems to be the real world with all the details of my house preserved as in reality (unlike dreaming about being in a certain place and you understand it to be that place and nothing seems different at the time, but when you wake up you can clearly notice that it wasn't really your bedroom).

The first 4 or so times it happened, the paralysis would always be accompanied by waking up from a dream into another dream where the paralysis was still possible. So it would be like I would be experiencing the paralysis in normal dream mode. Then I would think I would wake up at which point everything would become much more realistic. I'd physically stand up, walk around the room and suddenly be paralyzed and brought down by the force. Those were scarier times because I would have the notion of having just had a dream, and even when considering that what I may be experiencing is a dream, it seems to real and I assume I have to be awake...only till I finally wake up for real. It would be crazy though. To verify I wasn't dreaming, I would put on my ipod and listen to music. Go to the bathroom, look in the mirror, try to see if anything was fishy (aside of the fact I was getting paralyzed). Even when looking for inconsistencies with reality, there were never any to be found.

 

[frost458]

interesting, mine are very similar.

for me it always occurs after waking up in the middle of my sleep, just before re-falling asleep.
like you i'm feeling a

kind of like an intense electrifying buzzing that prevents me from moving

to be more precise it's like "the ants" it's an french expression for when you stop blood circulation in one of your arm/leg (by sitting on it for example) it will become kind of tingly/itchy/numb, it's called "having ants in your arm/leg" (i'll use this expression because I don't know the right adjectives to describe this sensation)

usually I feel the ants starting a one point (most of the time, an arm) then they will gradually spread to all my body, each part of my body touched by the ants become paralysed.
like you, I can stop this, if I move before the ants paralyses me too much I can cancel the paralysis.
but even if each times I only feel fear I hope someday I'll be able to feel something else, that why I most of the time let the ants spread.

since we both experience the same thing, this must be universal

 

[Global]

In english, I always say my arm is falling asleep. That's interesting with the ants though. The thing with me, is that the paralysis isn't creeping in. It's all of a sudden. One moment there's absolutely nothing wrong, and the next it's a shakedown where I'm fully paralyzed practically instantaneously all over.

 

[frost458]

oh not for me, it take about 5-8 seconds to be fully paralysed.
and since I know that one paralysed i'll be shitting myself, it's plenty time to make you think about cancelling it (just by moving)

back to calea :

I took 1g of resin in pills, nothing happenned.
I dreamt that I was a ninja-knight (ninja with western shiny armor) in training, nothing unusual for a dream.

I'm gonna wait 1 week just in case there is tolerance building-up and next time i'll take 5g

 

[frost458]

well tonight is the night, wish me luck

http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/9079/cacacacacalea.jpg

 

[Global]

Good luck. I've always just smoked it, so I'm curious to hear how this goes.

 

[Metanoia]

Just a word on tolerance, I don't seem to experience any and I smoke Calea very often. An oral dose that high should definitely produce some seriously strange dreams Good luck!

 

[frost458]

well, no unusual dream, I remember one and it's a regular one

however, I want to believe that it's because i've got the inactive strain (remember the study, there is a strain wich is inactive and it looks like exactly the same) so i'm going to try an other vendor and re-do it.
also, I had the resin for quite a while (10 days) it may have loose potency.

anyway, no we know that 7g of calea methanol extract won't kill you, that nice to know^^

the next time I won't be sleeping before I get some kind of intoxication, like in the study, i'll have with me someone sober wich will try to test my reflexes (dropping a ruler and see how many centimeter I need to grab it)

 

[gory dkalz]

Something I would like to add about the sleep paralysis. I have been getting SP since I was a teenager (I'm 23 now) and it always scared the shit out of me. It would usually happen either when I'm really tired or if I sleep in late or take an afternoon nap. But for years I would get it and I absolutely hated it. I never get the "spirits" in the room with me or the feeling something touching me like a lot of people do. But one time, years ago, I tried just giving in and relaxing and going back to sleep. It was pretty terrifying, as it felt like I was falling into a black hole and I was pretty sure if I didn't fight it like I always do, that I would die. So I didn't try that again until around this time last year but this time I didn't stop myself and next thing I know I'm in a lucid dream. For those of you unfamiliar with lucid dreaming this is called a WILD (wake-initiated lucid dream). Since then I have been able to use my sleep paralysis to have a lucid dream whenever it happens. Dream supplements like calea and galantamine often have SP as a side effect but this isn't really a bad thing for someone who can harness it like I can. And since I've started having WILDs, I have also started having DILDs (when you have that "oh this is a dream" moment and are then able to control the dream). But just thought I would share and maybe you and anyone else who suffers from SP can use it to your advantage.

 

[Al Dimentiz]

I never tried Calea, But I KNOW for personal experience that dosing daily 25mg - 50mg sublingual harmalas will bring you very Lucid Dreams (Sleep Paralysis included ).

 

[finding0]

I never had any luck with this stuff. This is actually what started it all for me, then salvia, then, dmt

 

[gory dkalz]

I noticed a huge similarity in the salvia realm and the lucid dreaming realm, though the dream realm tends to be less hostile and more influenced by what you tell yourself should be there. Then I read DMT: The Spirit Molecule and noticed how much DMT sounds like salvia but better so I decided that I had to try it.

 

[Toloache]

Dunno if this could be usefull, but when i was very interested in lucid dreams and considered using calea, i think i read somewhere that the effects starts to build up after a week of use.

Natives used to drink the tea and then to smoke lot of the herb before sleep.

 

[gory dkalz]

I would highly recommend you don't drink the tea. Calea is possibly the worst tasting thing on the planet. Not kidding. I though super concentrated kratom tea was bad but this stuff makes kratom taste like sweet tea. And there is nothing to cover the taste. Honey didn't do anything. And citrus supposedly makes it worse. I had to brush my teeth and use mouthwash to stop gagging. But I did do the smoke/tea thing the one time i could stomach it and I did feel some effects before falling asleep. Now I just load up the powdered leaf in capsules and take a couple grams like that. But even then I have to wipe off any residue to make sure I can't taste it.