Can one resist an iminent breakthrough?

[AstraKhan]

An inexperienced friend of mine told me the she took unsupervised a 30mg full VG hit but hadn't been thoroughly informed about the effects of DMT. She was only expecting to see thing altered and funny but nothing more than that (eg losing self control, dieing, "breaking through" aso).
First I saw her smiling, then she grasped the couch and refused to let go. She was thinking that that shouldn't have normally happened, that she was experiencing an accident and was supposed to die. So she struggled for several minutes simply refusing to let go. She managed to stay in control with the price of feeling very very sick (she told me that she felt like people must feel on their death bed).
She is a very thin person and the dosage was not one for beginners - so I guess a breakthrough could had been quite normal. Is it possible that she successfully resisted a breakthrough by pure will to live? She practically perceived those full 10 minutes as a fight against dieing.

 

[ewok]

Its different for everyone but I feel part of breaking breakingthrough is letting go, so could imagine its possible to resist to a point.

 

[gibran2]

I think it’s a function of both “will to resist” and dose.

At low doses, it’s possible to resist/fight the experience. But at a certain dose (different for everyone), DMT is fully in control.

At a high enough dose taken very quickly, there really isn’t much of a transition at all. One moment you’re inhaling vapors, and the next you’re wondering where your body went and how you got to the strange place you find yourself in.

 

[ewok]

Agree with time being a factor also, can happen before you realize so no time to resist or fight it.

 

[MooshyPeaches]

id say with a 30mg journey, you could definitely cling onto oneself and not let go into the journey.

reminds me of this time i saw a guy take a 20-30mg hit in a bad set/setting and he instantly yelled, "you can't take me from me!!" and then proceeded to have a horrible 'trip' for ten minutes, fighting to not let himself go. also sometimes people notice that their breath fades away when blastingoff and this makes them fearful and can hold them back from actually having the experience unfold because of their resistance.

 

[Kookaburra]

There's also the scenarios where you can "decide" to come back early - I've heard of this happening to a few people, for a variety of reasons.

 

[InneffableThings]

I think a powerful dose of adrenaline etc. may hold a person closer to this world. I had a powerful fight or flight response once which seemed to sober me up significantly. Was ready to run around the block full speed it seemed.

Mckenna seems to have had a slightly different experience, but I was on the lower side of the dosage.
[youtube]

 

[ewok]

There's also the scenarios where you can "decide" to come back early - I've heard of this happening to a few people, for a variety of reasons.

I often forget that I exist in this realm when I venture into the dmt world and am unaware theres something to return to.

 

[Tek]

I think there is a certain threshold that, once it's reached, you're gonna breakthrough whether you like it or not.

However before this critical threshold is reached, it's highly possible to 'abort' a launch, so to speak. I don't recommend doing this though, if your going to take a psychedelic, DMT or otherwise, once you buy the ticket you should take the ride. Trying to abort a breakthrough can make the trip turn very dark and things can get very confusing really quickly.

 

[Global]

I think a powerful dose of adrenaline etc. may hold a person closer to this world. I had a powerful fight or flight response once which seemed to sober me up significantly. Was ready to run around the block full speed it seemed.

Mckenna seems to have had a slightly different experience, but I was on the lower side of the dosage.
[youtube]

I'm not quite sure how much adrenaline has to do with it. I feel like I can regularly pull hyperspace machines and entities in my room with a sufficient dose and a minimal amount of concentration.

 

[Fractalyzed]

I've had times with unmeasured doses that have lead me to my few true breakthroughs with DMT.
Because i wasn't expecting nor wanting to breakthrough at the moment, when i did, i went through an intense episode of fear and not wanting to let go.
The result was a fight between reality and hyperspace, which was tremendously scarey because you're constantly stuck in the blastoff transition that's always a bit overwhelming.

The experience wasn't necessarily unpleasant, but it definitely shocked me to the core with fear and the loss of control when it couldve been purely enjoyable. I always did end in tears, though, from the awe .

I'd assume with a big enough dose smoked correctly, there really is no option but to ride it out.

 

[Kookaburra]

I'm not quite sure how much adrenaline has to do with it. I feel like I can regularly pull hyperspace machines and entities in my room with a sufficient dose and a minimal amount of concentration.

Great way of putting it!! "Pulling" hyperspace machines & entities back home is a fairly common phenomenon.

 

[InneffableThings]

I'm not quite sure how much adrenaline has to do with it. I feel like I can regularly pull hyperspace machines and entities in my room with a sufficient dose and a minimal amount of concentration.

I agree - I would not agree with an assertion that adrenaline is required to "break the membrane". Honestly I think adrenaline pulls one away from hyperspace, including in this case with Mckenna, I think it lowered the intensity of hyperspace for him. (Making it easier to answer the door perhaps, and "ignore" the hyperspace around him)

I think there's a sort of point of no return regarding dosage, on one side adrenaline can assist a person hiding from the experience (though I think surely resulting in some negative psychological trauma), on the other side of the dose line hyperspace will be dragged with a person running from it (probably causing severe psychological trauma).

However, Mckenna's description of the sudden enormous adrenaline rush strongly resonates with my experience. For me, even though I did "escape", and did not drag anything back, the words "ripped the membrane" really describe well the way it felt.

Anyone else reading been jolted out of the middle of a spice journey strongly enough to feel the adrenaline? I'm curious as to what the general experience is now.


Hm this leaves me thinking, the importance of paying attention, "not giving into amazement", I wonder if amazement/fear releases adrenaline etc., which would strengthen a person's hold to their body/mind, lowering the intensity of the spice's effects. This could certainly be a factor in why some people claim to go farther on smaller doses.

A person who can sit calmly amidst hyperspace destruction and chaos without freaking out will go much much farther into hyperspace then an adrenaline junkie, or someone "fighting" the experience, purely on the basis of chemistry (aside from other factors). An interesting postulation, any one have thoughts on this?

 

[universecannon]

Yea i think it depends a lot on the dose. I've 'aborted' a few just before the breakthrough, or even resisted once broken through/gotten distracted and was thrown out of it

But at a sufficient enough dose it won't really matter because either way you'll be there..regardless of what your body and monkey mind is doing. I realized this once when i got 50mg in the vapor genie in one big hit. I thought my friend got most of it but apparently he didn't get anything and i got it all. Broke through, wasn't ready for what happened, freaked out, and somehow stood up and walked out of the room down the hall and into my own room. Weirdest walk of my life. Even then i was still completely in hyperspace. I don't know how the hell i even stood up but but resistance at that point was futile either way and i was stuck in that place for a long time

 

[naepius]

I resisted a breakthrough last night with a 40mg dose after a 10-day break. I couldn't pin exactly why, but anxiety got the best of me. I was able to stay calm throughout, reminding myself that the intensity will only take a few minutes to wear off. As I started reminding myself of this, I glanced at the clock to see it was 12:01.

Oddly enough, the next time I looked at the clock (which felt like a mere second or two later) it was 12:04. The rest of the experience filled me with a sense of knowing that a spice journey can be precisely what I will it to be. I felt as though I had literally willed those 3 minutes away, and was immediately disappointed with myself. From there, my thoughts wandered through my life's disappointments in myself and, as usual, the experience as a whole was very rewarding.

Such a wonderful thing it is - getting exactly what one desires only to realize that what one desires is not what one sought out to begin with.

 

[corpus callosum]

Yea i think it depends a lot on the dose. I've 'aborted' a few just before the breakthrough, or even resisted once broken through/gotten distracted and was thrown out of it

But at a sufficient enough dose it won't really matter because either way you'll be there..regardless of what your body and monkey mind is doing. I realized this once when i got 50mg in the vapor genie in one big hit.

^^Alot of truth in this.50mg via GVG in one breath is a proper heroic dose and IME, trying to resist whats going to inevitably happen at this kind of dose would require a stubborn wilfulness that I think would be wholly unrewarding , and in some individuals could well cause some psychological trauma which could persist well beyond the hyperspace part.

To surrender to the experience is the easier path.............but it can be tricky to be always mindful of this fact.

 

[Lucy]

I've had times with unmeasured doses that have lead me to my few true breakthroughs with DMT.
Because i wasn't expecting nor wanting to breakthrough at the moment, when i did, i went through an intense episode of fear and not wanting to let go.
The result was a fight between reality and hyperspace, which was tremendously scarey because you're constantly stuck in the blastoff transition that's always a bit overwhelming.

The experience wasn't necessarily unpleasant, but it definitely shocked me to the core with fear and the loss of control when it couldve been purely enjoyable. I always did end in tears, though, from the awe .

I'd assume with a big enough dose smoked correctly, there really is no option but to ride it out.

I would have to agree, after a certain dose its as if you're hanging by your finger tips off a cliff. I hope you're doing well, .

 

[Dethrone]

I have delayed a breakthrough once (I thought I had denied it) but it caught up with me a few minuets later while I was standing up. When it returned it came hard and fast,I was lucky to be able to get down on all fours before I fell over.
I had totally lost all sense of direction and could'nt see the floor so I just reached for where my feet usually are.

 

[tele]

If one is truely getting the dose properly, then I think there's no chance one can resist it, and in general it would be very stupid thing to do IMO:surprised 8)

 

[MindRider]

An inexperienced friend of mine told me the she took unsupervised a 30mg full VG hit but hadn't been thoroughly informed about the effects of DMT. She was only expecting to see thing altered and funny but nothing more than that (eg losing self control, dieing, "breaking through" aso).
First I saw her smiling, then she grasped the couch and refused to let go. She was thinking that that shouldn't have normally happened, that she was experiencing an accident and was supposed to die. So she struggled for several minutes simply refusing to let go. She managed to stay in control with the price of feeling very very sick (she told me that she felt like people must feel on their death bed).
She is a very thin person and the dosage was not one for beginners - so I guess a breakthrough could had been quite normal. Is it possible that she successfully resisted a breakthrough by pure will to live? She practically perceived those full 10 minutes as a fight against dieing.

I did the same, grabbing my plastic white chair and sitting on it. But no fear or bad visions. Just the feeling of clinging to something I 'knew" instead of facing what was "real" and unknown to me, past the yellow light pyramid curtain." this is where we are now" was all I knew. as " this is what we managed to create until now" past that light...the unknown. The flow was pulling me that way, and I grabbed the chair. Managed to stand and bang the chair on the wooden deck.