Is it that kids shouldn't use psychedelics because there is actually something that's harmful to children about psychedelics or is it that they aren't educated enough about them for it to be responsible? What have been the effects on kids who have taken them accidently (like eating wild blue mushrooms) or intentionally because of their cultures/families?
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Children and psychedelics
- Thread starter elru
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giver of will
L.ife's S.ubliminal D.ream
I've seen videos of tribes giving their newborns ayahuasca. Cant imagine what those babies grow up to be like.
[YOUTUBE]elru said:
[YOUTUBE]
I think the fear is that their phyche is not fully formed and stable until a few years after puberty. I personally don't like the idea of messing with that process. Adolescence is also the age where psychosis is most likely to occur. It also seems like trauma is more likely to be an issue, though I may be wrong about the. To me it seems better to be "whole" before one visits those distant realms.
In the amazon its common for children to take ayahuasca. I remember in peter gormans ayahuasca in my blood he describes his son taking ayahuasca with him and a shaman. He'd lived in the culture his whole life and seemed to get a lot from the experience. I'm not saying we should all give our kids psychedelics, cuz i honestly don't know what i really think about the topic that and don't wish to open up that can of slippery beans.. just saying that the stigma in our culture about these matters isn't universal
Some publications on adolescents and ayahuasca
I think it all depends on age vs dosage, context and integration. Some babies might take microdose as baptism, but its more on the teen years that larger quantities are consumed and never forced. They consider ayahuasca in a careful context during teen as some kind of vaccine against typical teenage crisis and problems. I think its more healthy than drinking alcohol/smoking ciggs/doing stupid dangerous things, as the more typical rite of passage exisitng in our societies.
I think it all depends on age vs dosage, context and integration. Some babies might take microdose as baptism, but its more on the teen years that larger quantities are consumed and never forced. They consider ayahuasca in a careful context during teen as some kind of vaccine against typical teenage crisis and problems. I think its more healthy than drinking alcohol/smoking ciggs/doing stupid dangerous things, as the more typical rite of passage exisitng in our societies.
Most kids take drugs everyday either way. People give refined sugar filled candy to they're kids all the time..MSG laden foods..all kinds of things that are most likely far far worse than ayahuasca. Since there is no evidence of brain damage so far with ayahuasca despite the studies that have been done there really is no reason to assume that there is any harm done to a childs brain from simple ayahuasca micro-dosing. People use the fact that the brain is still developing in children, but really what does that statement tell us?..not enough to jump to any conclusions. If people really want to take that statement seriousily then they should keep them away from brainwashings such as television and public school and toxic fast/refined foods.
I want to have kids, and I will definatily make sure they understand what it is that I do. I will not lie to them about it. My kids will be raised to respect nature, they will spend time in nature..they will be well educated, healthy and well fed. I feel confident that when my kids are say, 14-15 years old I would definatily drink ayahuasca with them if that was they're wish. The experience would be carried out properly and only if it was what they truely wanted.
My goal would for my children to have the mindset for such an experience to be integrated and approached in the right way, weather they end up wanting such and experience or not. I think when an individual is as equipped as they can be to have a psychedelic experience and integrate it, it is a good indication of how well equipped they are for life in general. I hope that I can raise kids that are equipped to that level.
I want to have kids, and I will definatily make sure they understand what it is that I do. I will not lie to them about it. My kids will be raised to respect nature, they will spend time in nature..they will be well educated, healthy and well fed. I feel confident that when my kids are say, 14-15 years old I would definatily drink ayahuasca with them if that was they're wish. The experience would be carried out properly and only if it was what they truely wanted.
My goal would for my children to have the mindset for such an experience to be integrated and approached in the right way, weather they end up wanting such and experience or not. I think when an individual is as equipped as they can be to have a psychedelic experience and integrate it, it is a good indication of how well equipped they are for life in general. I hope that I can raise kids that are equipped to that level.
Shayku said:
^My question would be how much of that is due to the social climate surrounding an adolescent..how would they're family inhibit or reinforce integration of critical parts of such an experience etc?
I wonder if the same sort of problems are found within the same age group of drinkers in a group such as the daime?
These are studies that should be done.
giver of will
L.ife's S.ubliminal D.ream
elru said:
Probably, I cant imagine how they are either.
fractal enchantment said:
I agree with that fully, I think it has a lot to do with the type of "crazy" that is acceptable in our society. That being said, it's also true that I want my kid to be able to function within this society, and I hope to equip him with the creativity and critical thought that will allow him to see beyond the values that will be imposed on him by me and everyone else. Throwing him into experiences that run counter to the world he'll have to integrate may not be doing him a favor. The social climate is something we have to work with.
Endlessness's point of integration I believe is right on.
It may not be so much the ability to integrate the experience into your life as it is about the ability to actually gain something from it. It really comes down to circumstance like most other things, where it depends solely on the individual, and whether or not they are taking it as a party drug or a problem solver.
It may not be so much the ability to integrate the experience into your life as it is about the ability to actually gain something from it. It really comes down to circumstance like most other things, where it depends solely on the individual, and whether or not they are taking it as a party drug or a problem solver.
I wouldn't hesitate to give a child of mine psychedelics, provided they were self-aware enough to usefully comprehend such an experience--and able to understand and be willing to deal properly with the quite grave legal risks to ME!
dreamtimereturn
Rising Star
i just gave my brother his first mushroom experience a couple of weeks ago, he's 16 atm. i have to say i gave it alot of thought last winter when he opened up to me about his troubles with friends and with our parents negative attitudes crying and the whole terrible ordeal, i didn't know how crappy home life was for him or my other two brothers, not that they even help one another out they seem to make things harder. i though the integration process would ultimately be more effective than the trip itself. so i chopped up and mushed the mushies in some lime took a spoonful myself talked and waited for it to kick in, then we went for a walk. lying in the field out there i thought when i came down everything would be different, but you know it seems none of it was, my parents found out my dad is pissed my mum is just trying to understand while all the while they never consider the words i speak, and because he can't seem to control his at times terrifying rage with everything, its hard to know exactly where i stand, but its becoming more and more concrete everyday, everything in every way everything i read and everything i say. could i ask for your advice? i really need it. he's in jail or whatever under observation for the next thirty days due to violent outbursts, he's a good kid he just needs a little direction.. i don't even know where to turn. do you think it was too soon to early? he just doesn't get action and consequence or action and reaction..
and i totally agree, it def has alot to do with out society and of course the state of the world as a whole is in effect with this too
and i totally agree, it def has alot to do with out society and of course the state of the world as a whole is in effect with this too
Sorry for your family troubles, dreamtimereturn.
I think it may be "unrealistic" to refer to a young person in jail for violence as being "a good kid, just needs direction." Of course it MIGHT be true--it would be hard to convey the exact circumstances (maybe it's all a big mistake, kinda thing). But maybe it's also true that he has psych issues that require more than "direction."
...and, in EITHER case, a violent, screaming family life is not conducive to fixing psych or emotional problems.
I'm thinking what he needs more is someone who LOVES HIM, and will offer help and support while he tries to work through difficult times--and maybe some professional help from someone who has had success dealing with people in his situation.
I think it may be "unrealistic" to refer to a young person in jail for violence as being "a good kid, just needs direction." Of course it MIGHT be true--it would be hard to convey the exact circumstances (maybe it's all a big mistake, kinda thing). But maybe it's also true that he has psych issues that require more than "direction."
...and, in EITHER case, a violent, screaming family life is not conducive to fixing psych or emotional problems.
I'm thinking what he needs more is someone who LOVES HIM, and will offer help and support while he tries to work through difficult times--and maybe some professional help from someone who has had success dealing with people in his situation.
dreamtimereturn
Rising Star
Thanks SWIMfriend,
"I think it may be "unrealistic" to refer to a young person in jail for violence as being "a good kid, just needs direction."
yeah, i'm not sure where i stand here because him and my parents just set eachother off so bad, they're both flaming the fire.
The thing is he's alot stronger then he thinks so this is another problem here,
its the 2nd time they've called the cops on him because they weren't sure how far he'd go
and my younger brothers were scared you know? i don't want to go into too much detail but it is because of family life, i hope he will be able to control his anger better and really get to the route of the dispute before this becomes a bigger issue.. therapy will help and love always helps! i have faith things will work out soon
"I think it may be "unrealistic" to refer to a young person in jail for violence as being "a good kid, just needs direction."
yeah, i'm not sure where i stand here because him and my parents just set eachother off so bad, they're both flaming the fire.
The thing is he's alot stronger then he thinks so this is another problem here,
its the 2nd time they've called the cops on him because they weren't sure how far he'd go
and my younger brothers were scared you know? i don't want to go into too much detail but it is because of family life, i hope he will be able to control his anger better and really get to the route of the dispute before this becomes a bigger issue.. therapy will help and love always helps! i have faith things will work out soon
We have a habit of sheltering our children from things. There are a hell of a lot of people out there that think ingesting psychedelics is like playing russian roulette with your brain. And yes, we feed our children drugs everyday. Sugar, caffeine, a multitude of chemicals in processed foods. Look at the energy drinks for example. Those things are pumped full of sugar and caffeine, and many people allow their kids to drink up to six of those things a day! That'd be like someone drinking a few dozen cups of coffee with half a cup of sugar in each cup EACH DAY.
But when it comes to drugs that may cause our children to question our authority over them, to develop different lines of thinking that are not conducive to our culture, we say it's a crime. I do think that a child should be allowed to develop without too much interference from things like potent psychedelics. But they're already being bombarded by all sort of social conditioning from a very early age. I think a little Ayahuasca, in the proper setting and with proper guidance, could help a lot of these depressed and despondent teens who already have difficulty functioning in society. I know I could have benefited from a good cup or two of Aya at that age. The LSD, shrooms, and marijuana helped once I started to look deeper, past the veil, and not see it as some pretty light show or a way to escape my problems.
BTW, that video you posted was classic gibran. I couldn't help but laugh :lol:
The kid sounds like one guy I gave some Salvia to a few years back. He even said some of the same things. "Is this real life?" and "Is this going to be forever?" :lol: He was 24 at the time. What does that say about brain development and maturity? :lol:
But when it comes to drugs that may cause our children to question our authority over them, to develop different lines of thinking that are not conducive to our culture, we say it's a crime. I do think that a child should be allowed to develop without too much interference from things like potent psychedelics. But they're already being bombarded by all sort of social conditioning from a very early age. I think a little Ayahuasca, in the proper setting and with proper guidance, could help a lot of these depressed and despondent teens who already have difficulty functioning in society. I know I could have benefited from a good cup or two of Aya at that age. The LSD, shrooms, and marijuana helped once I started to look deeper, past the veil, and not see it as some pretty light show or a way to escape my problems.
BTW, that video you posted was classic gibran. I couldn't help but laugh :lol:
The kid sounds like one guy I gave some Salvia to a few years back. He even said some of the same things. "Is this real life?" and "Is this going to be forever?" :lol: He was 24 at the time. What does that say about brain development and maturity? :lol:
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