Clarification on Q21Q21 Tek

[Smeed]

Hello everybody,

I'm new to the Nexus and I've been reading a lot of the wiki the past couple days. I came across the Q21Q21 Vinegar/Lime A/B Extraction Tek. It seems like an easy place for beginners to start, and it's also very detailed.

However, I'm left slightly confused. If one were to go with Tek 2, would a steel bowl be usable for the mixing step? I know steel and metal are similar, but I also know they are slightly different.

Also, I know the container that the contents get mixed in can't be plastic, but couldn't the container that holds the water that will indirectly warm the naptha be?

Where I get the most confused, though, is the pull process. I understand the two consistencies, but I don't get the first Note:

Note 1: The tek is designed to do each step directly after another without any waiting periods except those that are steps.

The first pull if done immediately after getting the lime-bark to one of the consistencies shouldould yield anywhere from 10%-35% (in my experience.) If the first pull is done after 6-8 hours however it will likely yield 25%-60%.
2 pulls done around 24 hours and 48 hours (or later) should be enough to get 80%-90% of the DMT (In my experience).
Pulls after that tend to be rather small but I highly recommend doing pulls at 1 week and another at 2 or 3 weeks to get all the DMT possible.

Is that saying if one were to wait a full day to do the first pull it would yield more? If so, how would you store the mixture? And if the wait threw the consistency off, would you just adjust it how the tek says?

One last question, just be on the safe side. If I were to do this tek, all I have is an electric stove. Is that suitable?

I'm sorry for all the questions so soon in my Nexus membership, but this is so much info at once and I just want to be sure I'm understanding it all. I would truly appreciate any help.

Good vibes to you all.

 

[ewok]

A steel bowl should be fine, plastic ok for warm water bath. I don't wait to do pulls leave naptha in for 15mins pull, repeat 3 times always yeild minimum 1.5% this way.

Never used a stove at all with this tek.

 

[Smeed]

Awesome information! I really appreciate the help, ewok.

 

[Smeed]

I didn't want to make a new thread so I'm adding a new question here, hope that's OK.

For the pull process with Q21Q21, does the mhrb mixture actually get stirred with the naptha? I'd assume the naptha would get adsorbed completely that way. Also, would it be safe to put all three pulls into a container at once?

Any information on this would be greatly appreciated.

 

[ewok]

Yeah gently mix/stir a few times while naphtha is in mix doesn't need to be constantly mixed, Ill add all pulls together then freeze precip over night.

 

[Smeed]

Awesome. Glad to hear that. However, that leaves me with another question. I'm assuming if you mix it there will be small amounts of the root bark getting into the naptha (just small specs, mostly). What would you do about those? Just freeze it as usual, and when you scrape the precipitation container, separate the pieces from spice?

And I'm still confused about the after-freezer part. This is what I gather the steps are:
1. Pour off as much naptha as possible without dumping spice
2. Tilt container at an angle to let dry
3. Scrape spice

Seems easy enough, but the logic isn't sitting with me. In the freezer the spice forms crystals. How do those crystals stay formed while at the same time evaporating the remaining naptha? Wouldn't the crystals melt?

I'm sorry about all the questions. I'm just the kind of person that whats to know exactly what to do, why I'll do it, and what to expect as I do.

 

[TheRawringDinosaur]

I just followed my intuition and it all worked out. 1g+ :thumb_up:
Pour it through a coffee filter.
The spice won't melt til it gets to a higher temp. Each time I did it, it only took around 5-10 minutes with a fan. Then I moved it around and let it sit for the day.

 

[Smeed]

Cool. I appreciate the information. I'm glad your attempt was successful. Now I'm just hoping a little of that luck comes my way. Thank you for the help.

 

[Smeed]

So, not much of that luck came my way. An attempt using the Q21Q21 tek resulted in an odd extraction.

I threw the naptha into the freezer after combining all three pulls into one. I let it sit in the freezer for approximately 18 hours. When I took it out the freezer, the THINK I seen small, frozen crystals. There were very few though (not surprising since I used 30g of MHRB).

I set the container at a 45 degree angle with a fan blowing on it. As time went by, it appeared all the crystals melted because I could then see small "bubbles" in the naptha. That is from, I'm assuming, the naptha warming up, and in turn melting the crystals. I decided to still let the naptha evaporate in front of the fan. Once it was all gone and I could no longer smell naptha, I scraped the container. All that came up was a thin streak of an oily substance that stuck to the blade I used. It was reddish, brownish in color.

I think I know where I went wrong this go 'round. So this is my plan for the next attempt and I just need someone's input as to if it will work or not.

I'll still place the container in the freezer for approx. 18 hours. Then once I take it out, I will strain the naptha through a coffee filter. The container will then be placed back into the freezer upside down at a 45 degree angle with paper towels or coffee filters under it. Whatever was caught by the coffee filter from the strained naptha will be placed in front of a fan to dry. I'll wait a few hours for the naptha to fall from the container in the freezer, and then scrape what frozen crystals remain.

Sound like a successful idea?

 

[Ramabodhi]

Consider evapping a little bit after combining pulls but before freezing.. You want that sucker saturated. And get your freezer nice and cold if it isn't already. If you get the right saturation and temperature, you wont "think" you see little crystals, they will be obvious.

But yeah, combine, condense, freeze.

At this point (taking it out of the freezer), most people use a coffee filter, which I don't use. I just decant the naphtha out of the container.. With a mason jar, the little lip usually catches any goodies trying to float out.. IF they float out, you will just get them when you evap the solvent (i typically will reuse the decanted naptha for further pulls until I have deemed it exhausted)

And to answer your question- it sounds like it should work the main difference with my preferred method is decanting and reusing the solvent (its cost and environmentally effective)- I don't like getting spice off a coffee filter (because sometimes the only way is to just smoke the filter.. maybe i'm just careless), its nice to use a nice metal edge and scrape it off some smooth glass.

Its also easier to just let one jar dry versus a jar and two random coffee filters which can melt the spice in them, be knocked over, blah blah blah.


Whichever way you go next, goodluck!

 

[Smeed]

Evapping first is a great idea! Thanks.

And I think using a mason jar is something I need to do. Is this method you speak of similar to what I stated? Only you save the naptha you pour out to use at a later time? When you have the mason jar in the freezer, is the lid on? And after pouring the naptha out, do you place the jar back in the freezer? Or let it air dry on a table? I apologize for the questions. Your method sounds rather effective, and I have spare mason jars. Are they easy to scrape?

 

[Ramabodhi]

Smeed, It sound to me like you have some more research to do- not necessarily a lot, but I think its very important to be able to execute a tek to a T in your head over and over before you actually do it. You should pretty much have the entire tek memorized- so I ask you to go reread this. Imagine yourself doing every step mentioned- this will be for preventative safety, but will also help you clarify confusing parts before you get to them while holding a jar of hot naphtha and don't know what to do.

Q21Q21's Vinegar/Lime A/B Extraction Tek - DMT-Nexus Wiki

wiki.dmt-nexus.me

No really, go read it again READ READ READ MOAR MOAR MOAR. Unfortunately no amount of reading can fully give you the knowledge that firsthand experience will, but you should know every detail of how you will proceed before you even start. I promise if you follow the tek to a T it will work wonders. Okay now I will answer your questions.

Is this method you speak of similar to what I stated? Only you save the naptha you pour out to use at a later time?

q21q21 Recrystalization

Essentially. There's no sense in evapping naphtha that's barely saturated- reuse that stuff. If you read the tek, there are two ways given to deal with this. I think you took a third by waiting to freeze after combining all pulls.

My preferred method is to naphtha wash my basified bark at T+0, T+24h, T+48H, T+1week and MAYBE T+2 weeks. With this I was only throwing one wash at a time in the freezer, but I was working with more than 30 grams, so i didn't need to combine everythin.

When you have the mason jar in the freezer, is the lid on?

Again: q21q21 Recrystalization

Considering I keep food in my freezer, I really prefer to cover it. I just cover it and wedge it under the compresser between a couple of ice packs (i have a terrible freezer, this helps keep a consistent temperature)

And after pouring the naptha out, do you place the jar back in the freezer? Or let it air dry on a table?

To avoid redundant redundancy, see previous link I go with q21q21 on this one too. Find a shady place, with a nice breeze (shady is important, the sun will melt your spice). "then find a (preferably outdoors, fumes) place to lean the container against, the excess naptha will drip off and evaporate in a couple hours."

If your worried about spice dripping out, let it drop on a filter or something.

My new preferred method is to cover the top of my jar with a coffee filter and literally wedge it in my window with the open (but covered) mouth facing out to catch the breeze. Its a compromise considering with my new home there's nowhere outside my apartment to really evap a jar of naphtha.

Don't put it back in the freezer, those aren't the best temps for evapping naphtha

Your method sounds rather effective, and I have spare mason jars. Are they easy to scrape?

I mean its all q21q21 methods, I have slightly adapted them to my circumstance/preference, but its all in there.

No, the jars are not easy to clean. I tried a few methods.. Painting knives (really bendy), razor glued to popsicle stick.. With a little patience you can get it all out.

My new favorite way is to add a minimal amount of warm naptha (or bestine) at this point (after taking it out of the freezer and decanting and drying), dissolving everything in the jar, pouring into a shallow pyrex baking dish and evapping slowly in the shade.

Scraping this baking sheet with a razor is WAY easier than the jar.. It adds another step that is not in q21q21 (unless you do your original freeze precip in a shallow pan), but it does make it a hell of alot easier.. ANd if your yield is large enough, you might end up with some fatty crystals in the pyrex.

Hope I could help, but I really really hope you do some more reading because all of your answers are out there.

Best of luck!

 

[Smeed]

All of the help is truly appreciated, Ramabodhi. I do have more reading to do.
And your post has helped to clarify many things I wasn't understanding. Thank you.

 

[Ramabodhi]

One quick clarification / reiteration:

You can do your freeze precip in the shallow pyrex pan, and carefully decant off that and just let it dry.. It will save you a step and put you right in line with q21q21 verbatim.

I really appreciate the mason jar.. After freezing, it makes an effortless decanting.

Also, when you lean it at 45 degrees upside down to drip n' dry, the curve before the lip will catch any spice trying to escape.

The jar really makes freeze precip and drying much easier, but ultimately I like to recrystallize / scrape my yield off a flat pyrex.. So much easier.

No worries buddy, I really remember my first q21q21 xtraction.. I had read everything so much I was dreaming teks, and still I wasn't prepared for every step when I got there.

Its a learning process, but it doesn't take long. I'm sure your next attempt will be a success and after that you will start to feel very comfortable with the process.

Oh yeah one more thing.. About rereading the tek. Make sure you didn't make your mistake before the freeze precipitation. If you did, all your spice could still be in the bark and you will be wasting your time.

If you follow the tek exactly (times and ratios), then this will not be a problem!