Combining Syrian Rue with stimulant herbs and adaptogens

[RhythmSpring]

I've heard (and had?) conflicting experiences on this combination. I know if we were following a strict "Dieta," abstaining from various stimulating substances before and during drinking ayahuasca or ayahuasca-like brews, we'd avoid caffeine.

But many of us question these strict practices and find health and healing by keeping things like red meat and chocolate in our lives, even as we work with RIMA-containing plants.

But what about coffee? Green tea? Rhodiola rosea? Ashwagandha? Is it safe? Dangerous? What are your experiences?

I looked up the Rue + Caffeine combination on erowid and found these two trip reports, which seemed to affirm its safety:

https://erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=29093

Syrian Rue, Calamus, & Caffeine - Erowid Exp - 'Calamuasca'

An Experience with Syrian Rue, Calamus, & Caffeine. 'Calamuasca' by the joy luck club

erowid.org

And on the well-known drug combinations chart that's out there, MAOI + Caffeine = "Low risk / no synergy."

I also take Rhodiola rosea and sometimes Eleuthero (American Ginseng), and I notice when I take it in the morning after and/or before Syrian Rue, I feel no ill effects. In fact, I might feel more balanced overall.

I would be excited to work with both at the same time, or at least within the same day, more. In the past I've kept them very separated (by time) out of caution, but now I'm starting to think that I've been overly cautious.

What if Syrian Rue would even "mellow out" the jitteriness of coffee? I'm not about to drink them together, but... that guy on erowid did! Just sayin.

 

[Transform]

I've had rue with coffee several times. It does make the caffeine significantly stronger in a way that I wouldn't call long-term sustainable. With my regular background-level rue dosing (800mg seeds), I get along fine with ongoing intake of coffee, cacao, adaptogens, and even calamus and St. John's wort, albeit these latter two in minimal doses as part of a tea blend.

Siberian ginseng (Eleutherococcus senticosus) has synergised well with this combination, but particularly with lion's mane mushroom powder. Ashwaganda fits in just fine too. I feel a little less enamoured with Korean (Panax) ginseng, but I don't generally need that anyhow.

Something I've found with calamus is that the psychoactive effect seems stronger when it's brewed for a second or even a third time. It does feel like having had a weak joint of cannabis, so being able to achieve this with relatively tiny amounts blended into a herb tea of nominally non-psychoactive plants is somewhere between satisfying and amusing. My tea drawer:

 

[Jamie01]

Coffee with harmalas is just absolutely horrible…jittery, sketchy and leaves me hyper aware of muscle tension and arthritis. absolutely hate it but that’s becoming my feeling around caffeine in general as I age.

God it’s just such an uncomfortable combination. I will physically shake if it’s coffee or strong mate that is mixed. Wayusa was more of the same even though it’s often used with ayahuasca.

 

[Jamie01]

Man cacao was even worse and I have been sick and vomited when combined with rue or vine…but again cacao is something I’ve grown to hate even on its own. I think stimulants are not my thing any longer.

 

[Transform]

Coffee with harmalas is just absolutely horrible…jittery, sketchy and leaves me hyper aware of muscle tension and arthritis. absolutely hate it but that’s becoming my feeling around caffeine in general as I age.

God it’s just such an uncomfortable combination. I will physically shake if it’s coffee or strong mate that is mixed. Wayusa was more of the same even though it’s often used with ayahuasca.

Yeah, I wouldn't take a full dose of harmalas if I'd been having higher levels of caffeine intake either. Even with my low, background levels of harmala it's caused me to scale back on tea and coffee somewhat - and if I drink green tea (well, matcha to be precise) even in the morning it gives me tachycardia at bedtime.

Sounds like it's even less sustainable for you!

 

[Jamie01]

Ya I mean I’m fully addicted to caffeine but have gone down to 1-2 cups of tea per day. Coffee has always given me heart palpitations and stomach cramps, but it’s been really hard to quit. The only thing that ever motivates me is I see immediate improvement in my physical health when I do.

Cacao for some reason makes me pretty nauseous most times I eat it now. I could be allergic to that one.

My wife makes matcha and I will go drink it and want to jump out of my skin. I used to love matcha.

I have been using harmalas in low doses with berberine, curcumin, boswellia and dandelion root however. Seems to help my mornings. Not stimmy though.

I got into chewing calamus back in like 2018ish and I remember really liking it.

 

[Transform]

I got into chewing calamus back in like 2018ish and I remember really liking it.

I was chewing calamus and cacao nibs while excavating a cellar during a house conversion a while back - it seems to help with brute sweaty work. No harmalas at the time, though!