Potentially deadly! Datura seeds for lucid dreaming?

[Schahin92]

So dear community.

I read a story of taking low amounts of Datura seeds around 1-3 or 1-5 to have instant vivid and lucid dreaming at night.

What experiences have you done and is it really safe? Could there be variying potencies that do induce delirium if the seeds are too potent?

 

[blig-blug]

Datura is very dangerous, but imo, the danger is not very much in its variability

Yes, and what I'm saying is that, while it may not vary in your area, it's been known to be very variable in general. For example, the paper mentions that Mexican Datura plants can contain 40 times more alkaloids than Spanish ones. So even someone with extensive experience with the plant in Spain could have serious problems if he assumed Mexican plants to be of the same strength. In general it is a concern. So even if it doesn't happen always or everywhere, or there are even bigger concerns, I don't think it's something to disregard. Even for experienced users.

 

[dithyramb]

There could be a regional variation, and also a seasonal variation - I found too early and also too late season seeds to be impotent.

The variation may be more critical for larger seed producing species like innoxia and metel.

 

[doubledog]

Yes, fully agree, to rely on assumptions about Datura potency is definitely dangerous. Datura plant material must be tested by starting with very low dose.

Edit:
Only reasonably safe approach is to collect plant material to create a batch, test very little amount of material (20 mg) and work only with this batch.

 

[northape]

My homegrown Datura stramonium was much weaker than the seeds from France that I used to grow it. So, climate and soil actually play a very big role. The same thing happened to my planted tobacco. I only got a very strong leaf one summer, and we had a lot of Sun then. People just don't think about it, but it's kind of obvious. You need to know your local plants and dose accordingly. Plants love the Sun, just as people do

 

[Prima Materia]

@northape Tobacco has been mentioned a few times already. I feel it would be worth it to further the discussion about nightshades and open a tobacco thread. It's a sacred plant with traditional uses and it is widely miss-used in the present therefore I believe it would serve as well to do so.

 

[northape]

@northape Tobacco has been mentioned a few times already. I feel it would be worth it to further the discussion about nightshades and open a tobacco thread. It's a sacred plant with traditional uses and it is widely miss-used in the present therefore I believe it would serve as well to do so.

Information about tobacco is scattered all over. We can continue to post to the original thread about it:

https://forum.dmt-nexus.me/threads/tobacco-as-sacrament-brain-chemistry-thoughts.351600/

Here is quite a discussion about tobacco, too:

The Other Magic Mushrooms. Amanita Dreams. Substantial Clarity. Substance, & Substances.

I just wanted to make a quick post about mushrooms, and their magic. Magic mushrooms? As in the Psilocybin kind? No, not this time, although I have a good relationship with those mushrooms too. I’m talking about the edible psychoactive Amanitas. This time Pantherina. It has come through for me...

forum.dmt-nexus.me

 

[Schahin92]

Btw in my dream last night I saw datura plants and ate their seeds, and woke up to read this thread for the first time this morning (no ingestion was involved in the objective world)

it is in season in the northern hemisphere right now.

Amazing. I used to had dreams picking up Amanita Muscaria on the street and knew that it called me to take it.
Where exactly in the northern hemisphere? I live in Germany

So you say its a positive experience? Can one have darker experiences on it too?

 

[1Starway7]

you can take...15 or 20 syrian rue seeds before bed.. and also have very vivid dreams..[not shure about lucid ones] .... if you want lucid dreams....[ Galantamine] or huperzine A...is what you need...

Even eating a bananna 4 hours into sleep can boost your dream vividness because of the potasium in the fruit...

 

[dithyramb]

Amazing. I used to had dreams picking up Amanita Muscaria on the street and knew that it called me to take it.
Where exactly in the northern hemisphere? I live in Germany

So you say its a positive experience? Can one have darker experiences on it too?

Yeah, I also experience and believe that these plant or mushroom spirits reach out to us in dreams.

Autumn is the general seed producing time for daturas. Here the stramoniums are transitioning from flowers to seeds, and the metels seem to be in full bloom still. Very different plants (spirits/effects) if you ask me, btw.

Low dose stramonium has consistently been euphoric for me. I don't have plans to explore higher doses.

 

[Schahin92]

Yeah, I also experience and believe that these plant or mushroom spirits reach out to us in dreams.

Autumn is the general seed producing time for daturas. Here the stramoniums are transitioning from flowers to seeds, and the metels seem to be in full bloom still. Very different plants (spirits/effects) if you ask me, btw.

Low dose stramonium has consistently been euphoric for me. I don't have plans to explore higher doses.

Does Datura or Brugmansia lose its flowers during winter even indoors? And how would you describe the effect/spirit of the differente Daturas or Brugmansias?

 

[Transform]

Does Datura or Brugmansia lose its flowers during winter even indoors? And how would you describe the effect/spirit of the differente Daturas or Brugmansias?

In a lightly-heated conservatory, I've had a shrub flowering in the depths of winter, in addition to two or three flushes outdoors from late spring to early autumn.

No comment on the plant spirits from me, mine are just commercial cultivars. That said, the plants give the impression of having a sense of humour, however, sometimes making surprisingly rapid spontaneous movements.

 

[Schahin92]

On the other hand, I must add that very low dose datura stramonium seeds when awake does appear to enhance lucidity for me - that is the opposite of it's known effect profile - but I have never experienced lucidity in dreams from it. There are much safer and simpler dream herbs. Valerian, mugwort, wormwood, Clary sage, guayusa... Even low dose amanita is better as a suggestion imo.

How do you use Mugwort, Clary sage and wormwood? I have two Valerian plants here and someimtes eat the root, it gives me very clear dreams with a good chain of stories, its not like normal chaotic dreaming.
But I use it only rarely because I find myself slightly irritable the day after, but still very settled in my body and relaxed.

I also do have Amanita, but still am figuring out the best way to use it. The experience hasn't been of vividly dreaming, more of prophetic dreaming sometimes short dreams, I havent used it as a tea thoug, just ingested the dehydrated mushrooms and a very very small dosage of that, because I feel like more than microdose isnt fun and becomes a negative experience, maybe the ingestion through tea is different?

Yes it is largely the same, what i've heard is that mandrake and henbane are more special than datura and brugmansia in terms of being smoother and better quality, they can be used on sensetive parts of the body without causing irritation.

So does that apply to the ingestion of seeds too? You seem to have had mostly positive experiences with datura seeds and the effects on dreams

 

[CataractSurgeon]

I could buy scopalamine eyedrrops if I wanted and eat them precisely-no thanks - I got poisoned accidentally a different way by this stuff - no way

 

[northape]

I could buy scopalamine eyedrrops if I wanted and eat them precisely-no thanks - I got poisoned accidentally a different way by this stuff - no way

This thread is about Datura. Plants are much more than some individual alkaloids. Still, thanks for your opinion

 

[Transform]

Datura and other tropane-related threads should have an automatic header and footer with the appropriate safety warning on every page for ease of reference.

This thread is about the possibility using relatively tiny doses for lucid dream enhancement, and is only alowed to remain here on account of having explicitly acknowledged the dangers in reasonable detail.

I've found pharmaceutical scopolamine in small doses (sold as travel sickness pills) to be fairly underwhelming by itself. Larger doses do not strike me as anything remotely like a good idea.

 

[Sakkadelic]

So does that apply to the ingestion of seeds too? You seem to have had mostly positive experiences with datura seeds and the effects on dreams

Yes with low doses and/or topical use the chances of things going bad are low, the effects while awake are subtle, but with repeated use, dreams start changing and you'll recognize it when you have one.

Edit: Never forget the best lucid dream inducer: good quality tobacco

The other day I had some tobacco (hookah) at night and had a dream very much like the nightshade dreams, and tobacco is a nightshade, the dream was very vivid and the dream environment quite persistent.

 

[Schahin92]

Yes with low doses and/or topical use the chances of things going bad are low, the effects while awake are subtle, but with repeated use, dreams start changing and you'll recognize it when you have one.

The question was actually about the difference of Datura seed ingestion compared to mandrake and henbane seeds ingestion.

The other day I had some tobacco (hookah) at night and had a dream very much like the nightshade dreams, and tobacco is a nightshade, the dream was very vivid and the dream environment quite persistent.

Thats an interesting fact to know that tobacco is a nightshade, so nightshades probably do work in that way of affecting the dreams.

 

[Sakkadelic]

The question was actually about the difference of Datura seed ingestion compared to mandrake and henbane seeds ingestion.

Yes they all contain tropane alkaloids

 

[northape]

The question was actually about the difference of Datura seed ingestion compared to mandrake and henbane seeds ingestion.
Thats an interesting fact to know that tobacco is a nightshade, so nightshades probably do work in that way of affecting the dreams.

Eat lots of tomatoes and potatoes for good dreams, then

 

[blig-blug]

Even potatoes do! Although it's not clear to me if they are active.

Calystegines as a new group of tropane alkaloids in Solanaceae

Calystegines are a new group of polyhydroxy alkaloids with a nortropane skeleton. They were detected in Atropa belladonna root cultures by chromatographic methods (TLC, GC) and identified by NMR and mass spectroscopy. Their occurrence was examined in several species...

link.springer.com