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Defining "Breakthrough"

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OrderAndChaos

Rising Star
Hello fellow psychonauts,

I've been wondering for quite some time now exactly what defines a breakthrough experience. I realized this probably varies quite a bit from person to person, so can anyone share what factors they think need to be present for a trip to be a "breakthrough"?

I myself have had trips ranging from weak to fairly strong, and I have a very difficult time deciding if any of them are "breakthroughs". I've had one very strong trip with some wild, incredible OEVs, the sensation that I've stopped breathing, the shimmering sounds, but it didn't feel like any kind of breakthrough. On the other hand, I've had moderate doses with entity contact during CEVs, even some communication was involved. Do you guys feel like you need a strong dose in order to have a breakthrough, or can you breakthrough on a more moderate trip?

Looking forward to everyone's input!
 
I always interpreted a breakthrough as a strong trip. A higher dose. I've never felt as if I've ever broken through a veil or wall or something but I know I've went really really really far before.

I think the most basic description of a breakthrough would be when the trip gets strong enough to the point were the first things that come to your brain is "No that isn't possible" "How is this happening" followed by the complete take over of both the open eyed world and close eyed world by extremely awesome visuals. I know a few of my trips were so dramatic that I just ignored everything. I'm not proud of that but I was scared and wasn't ready for it. But now I believe I am ready for it.
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I often say on the come up that "OMG I remember. I forgot how strong you were DMT. But now I remember" because the fact that dmt shows you impossible things it is very easy to forget those things and underestimate the experience therefore leading the ill-prepared into panic and fright then leading to a bad trip. <<<< For me at least.


When you come down from that intense trip. You'll still be tripping Bawls but nothing compared to what you just experienced. Lol I was so humbled by my first few breakthroughs that when I could still feel it I got in the car and took a short drive to my friends house. I know it sounds unsafe but I felt sober, I was sober.

You'll know :)
 
when I could still feel it I got in the car and took a short drive to my friends house. I know it sounds unsafe but I felt sober, I was sober.



Sounds like a stupid thing to do if you ask me...
 
My impression of a breakthrough from reading Terence McKenna and others, is encountering a mandala or field of fractal like visuals, and bursting through this to find yourself in an alien zone with entities, or a trascendental nothingness of God mode.

Having never experienced DMT, I can't be sure if the colourful reports I read are to be taken literally, or are just very visual descriptions of what are just feelings. I'll never know until I try it, if I ever do.
 
I feel as though the term breakthrough only needs defining for those who have not experienced the phenomenon. As much as it can be described, there are no words for it. You die, you appear in an alternate reality, you enter another dimension, these are cultural terms that express but a fraction of the multitude of experiences encountered at the peak of a higher dose spice experience. Essentially it can only be understood as the experienced reality of breaking through; ultimately you've either experienced it or you have not.

Just my opinion, it's become apparent to me over time that those who have "broken through" recognize/share an experience that is understood to be both communally shared and completely unique, i don't know that there is a static definition to ultimately define breaking through in its entirety.
 
To me a breakthrough is where you cannot tell the difference between reality and your imagination. Eyes open or closed doesn't matter. I don't believe that I have broken through yet. I have gone pretty deep, but I always have a sense of my body. It is still like I am laying in my floor just watching the back of my eyelids. I have never had an experience where I have been completely engulfed in the experience.

When first starting use dmt I was confused about the breakthrough experience. It seems that a lot of people correlate a breakthrough with entities. But I get entities every time I smoke dmt no matter what the dosage. I have never been completley out of my body in a place that seems more real than here.

One day when the time is right I am sure I will breakthrough completely, but I am still waiting patiently.

~Peace
 
To me a breakthrough is not a measure of intensity. I have had high doses that were very intense with very little insight or recognition of anything but a bunch of rapidly flashing lights. I have also had tiny, tiny doses with full entity contact where my heart barely lifted above resting pace and I felt very much "in touch" with the other.

I think with DMT if you wait to have a "breakthrough" and judge it by terrence McKenna's experience it probably won't happen. That man was very good with words.
 
agreed, I listen to McKenna talk and I maybe know of half of what hes talking about.... A breakthrough in my opinion is anything more than patterns and fireworks. If I close my eyelids and a 3d world is around me (whether I know my body is with me or not), I consider that a breakthrough, meaningless visions or not....
 
SnozzleBerry said:
I feel as though the term breakthrough only needs defining for those who have not experienced the phenomenon. As much as it can be described, there are no words for it. You die, you appear in an alternate reality, you enter another dimension, these are cultural terms that express but a fraction of the multitude of experiences encountered at the peak of a higher dose spice experience. Essentially it can only be understood as the experienced reality of breaking through; ultimately you've either experienced it or you have not.

Just my opinion, it's become apparent to me over time that those who have "broken through" recognize/share an experience that is understood to be both communally shared and completely unique, i don't know that there is a static definition to ultimately define breaking through in its entirety.
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I also agree with this.
 
For me a breakthrough is when one or more of the following things happen:


A person experiences "The Veil" but then breaks/rips/goes through the veil to another place

Entity contact always = full breakthrough

There can be ego loss but not always

One sees the same thing with eyes open or closed, opening the eyes is difficult

Everything is in 3D, unlike the 2D veil



For me, this occurs on doses above 40mgs and almost always on doses above 50mgs.
 
I have certainly had some very powerful and intense experiences...but nothing REALLY profound. Definitely an extra dimensional tang to smoked spice, and incredibly beautiful visuals, usually accompanied by a menacing confrontational feeling...but never any entities, insight or anything to make me think "this can't just be my brain, and must be a deeper order of reality, etc".

Maybe I need to up my dosage and experiment with other methods of smoking, or maybe that is just the way my brain is wired. Is strange, as I click very well with mushrooms, which are chemically very similar indeed.
 
i agree with acolon 5, even tho i am VERY new to dmt, i am very experienced with lsd, mushrooms. i have only had experiences with enities, most of the time, the last time it was the best, it takes great concentration and total letting go at the same time, if that makes sense...try it, it may work....i think you kinda have to work with the dmt. or it just may be diff. for each diff. person idk, cant really put dmt into words
 
Phlux- said:
i can have intense entity encounters on 5mg of spice - is that odd ?
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IT is the same for me. I see entities EVERY time. These entities are usually humanoid also. Even if I get a threshold dose I can close my eyes and there are entities there. IT's just that they aren't as vivid as a full dose.

~Peace
 
So, both of you are oddballs I suppose :surprised 😉

My friend never sees them, but they always tell him something telepathically. But he wouldn't even notice a change in his body with 5mg.
 
It seems that the 2D wall is not considered a breakthrough. SWIM has met entities that seemed conscious in this 2D realm, such as the breasted beetle kings or the finger face suns (!). But these entities do seem less engaging, 'less advanced' maybe. And there is no feeling of 'being there', it's just tripping.

Then, one can go 3D. When SWIM started out he was surprised that viewing this other place and generally viewing the entities there was considered a breakthrough, because this can feel like looking through a crystal ball at another dimension- sometimes one can be 'broken through' due to this definition but still conscious that one is actually lying on the bed seeing stuff, in that it doesn't 'feel real'. Sometimes this is all you want.

For SWIM, a 'true breakthrough' is now when you land in another dimension, but YOU NO LONGER KNOW WHAT THE TRUTH OF REALITY IS. Is the world you were in 5 minutes ago 'real', or is this new place 'true reality'? You are immersed in this dimension, not the one you left behind, and this dimension feels like reality to you. It is not just a vision. Your understanding of conventional reality is smashed. The interaction with entities is two way here for SWIM, although this has so far only involved being beckoned and following them or stopping when they tell him to etc. No sex yet unfortunately! Maybe need to buy some THH to give them time to get frisky...
For swim this state is accompanied by the chuckled muttering of "This is so strange, I don't understand, what is real? Mmmmmm" :D

Then there's when you're travelling too fast and you never reach a point of stillness. He thinks this is kind of a 'hyperspace aborted landing', because you're zooming by all these entities and places but your never land in one location, you never reach those wonderful places of calm and stillness where you can have a meaningful engagement with whoever lives there. He doesn't count this as breakthrough, but I suppose it is really, just a different type.

Then there's ego death. Is this beyond breakthrough? There is no contact, just a reuniting with the rest of the universe in its entirity. An experience of death. A return to the soup.
 
Swim has never had a breakthrough with the spice (doesn't have scales so can't really tell if he has enough in the pipe),
but has with Salvia and a couple of mental shroom trips where reality disappears.

Swim's recent adventures with the spice have been pretty strong with OE 3D style visions filling the empty space of the
room and his favourite strange noises like "oodle oodle" and "ping" all in high pitched elven tones.

Maybe one day he will ascend again into the realms of hyperspace.
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