DMT and suicide

[xss27]

Or maybe I read different books about psychology than you did. How about Eric Berne? You just took a common role in a common human game. So did the OP.

What on earth are you talking about dude. For someone who is going on about how they're 98% sure they're God you don't exactly possess a great awareness or ability to discern context of a discussion, or the ability to contribute appropriately. In any other thread I would say nothing and just let you babble on about whatever it is that's going on in your mind, but in a thread where someone is expressing genuine suicidal concerns and seeking advice.. there's a time and a place, do you understand?

I wasn't the only person who picked you up on your comment about 'suicide ruining your lucid dream' and 'DMT promotion'. The fact you posted that in the context of this thread is shows a real lack of tact on your part.

At first I presumed the over use of 'I' and focus on yourself in your posts was because perhaps English isn't your first language or something. Look back at your posts dude, it's all about you.

 

[Anonymous2]

At first I presumed the over use of 'I' and focus on yourself in your posts was because perhaps English isn't your first language or something. Look back at your posts dude, it's all about you.

Your problem is that I "talked a lot about me".

Your solution to your problem is that you talk more about me.

Brilliant.

 

[Anonymous2]

Edit: removed

 

[clop]

I just want to keep the number of suicide people in my lucid dream as low as possible, if you don’t mind. Besides, your plan would be horrible marketing for DMT. I want to have it legalized.

I really don't think you are contributing in a helpful way to the OP with a post like this, Anonymous2. He/She is obviously struggling to resolve an internal conflict and you're making the focus of the thread all about you.

The OP needs clarity, not extended self-centred rambling posts from someone who in my opinion appears to be struggling as well. You may mean well but your posts are off the wall and chaotic, and not what someone in the OP's position needs to hear.

Please reflect on what you're posting in the context of this thread. This isn't about you.

---

OP: @Clops

I've pulled out some quotes of yours in this thread. Before I go through them I would say please re-read the posts by Daturas, Null24, and corpus callosum on page 2 of this thread.

What if this action(suicide) is just another small fraction of god consciousness? What if this is just my fate? The manifestation of this individual consciousness. I feel my body so much asking for this killing, and it has been there for a long time.

Your body does not want to die though, it does not possess that belief because it is not capable of possessing belief, only programming (which is non-negotiable at a physical level). All biological organisms fundamental drive is self-preservation above all else. No physical organism has been gifted the ability to reflect on death, only the drive to avoid it at all costs - otherwise life would have an anxiety attack and never succeed.

Only the mind can contemplate death, or suicide. Your problem is mind related, not body related - though your physical health may be adversely affecting your mental ability. This includes ingesting psychedelics!

I'm trying to make sense of this idea. Looking for someone seasoned on psychedelics who had profound awakenings when it comes to love and god. When I think of love myself I think in not resisting anything and currently, I feel I'm resisting to die. I fear death. And I'm also don't feel that I'm following the flow.

Suicide, or rushing yourself to the grave through disintegration (substance abuse) is not going unlock the flow. Too many people get caught up with psychedelics believing it's unlocking some flow or route to oneness, but to the outside observer it is obvious where they are really heading.

Psychedelics are not a panacea to the mystery of life. From my own experiences with psychedelics and observing the journey of friends, both real and online, if anything they only increase the confusion by generating more questions than they solve. Useful for shifting the perspective of an individual, a slap in the face if you will, but slapping yourself over and over is not going to generate new wisdom just a sore cheek and maybe a bloody nose.

I have had life changing DMT experiences. Useful and amazing, but they never solved anything though. Anyone claiming to have solved the mystery through psychedelics is bullshitting themselves, and you. If you want real answers to the mysteries of God and Love you would be best placed not to put all your eggs in the psychedelic basket, trust me. Branch out, there's so many more rocks you have to turn over.

The idea of killing me was already here. It's there. Old. Since I was a child I feel that this life lacks meaning. And lately, this urge to die became very intense. Regarding the video, yes I've watched the whole video. And a lot of stuff made sense for me. When you say that "in this place" you are alone and you see creatures, then you didn't reach this becoming "One". Whole. Because when I think of this idea of dying, I think of being everything. Integrate the whole universe.

Real talk now, I think you should step away from psychedelic thinking for awhile. I can sense the vein in your posts I think and you are muddying up two strands of your life, and the psychedelic strand has hijacked your attention and is masking the real cause of your malady which is real life issues, whatever they may be - family, childhood, etc. The internet is not the place to sort that material out, let alone on a psychedelic forum. People here can offer advice and help, but really you need to talk to your therapist and to friends/family who can help you dig to the core of what's really bothering you.

I wrote because a part of me resists this idea of dying. Of leave everything behind. But my this just my human ego.

You may be covering over the cause of your malady by labeling it as ego. There may very well be a set of memories or experiences that are calling for your attention, and that upon examination will free up your mind.

Not to encourage morbidity, but you may benefit from the stories of those who jumped off the Golden Gate bridge and survived. All of them jumped, were convinced it was the right thing to do based upon their own individual stories at the time, but the moment their feet left the ground and the realization of death dawned on them their thinking got real focused real fast.. and they inevitably realized they didn't actually want to die at all.

Suicide and depression is like that. It's a mood. A lens through which your attention is looking and caught up in. Moods are very powerful and they can shape our thinking and over time our personality too if we stay in them long enough. But they are not fixed and can be shifted. I know it seems real to you, which is why you need to get out of your head (and off digital forums) and go speak to real people like your therapist, friends and family.

But my mind is generated by my brain, which is my body ...

Regarding the therapy, I'm already doing It, and if I have to choose come here and talk instead of killing me, I rather talk here, even if I don't get 100% good advices(yes, some advices here does more harm than good I know), but there are good advices out here.

 

[clop]

I've tried to pm some people that posted here, That I felt the most helpful to me and I couldn't. If some admin can help me, I would be grateful.

 

[Anonymous2]

I've tried to pm some people that posted here, That I felt the most helpful to me and I couldn't. If some admin can help me, I would be grateful.

Yeah, that’s the issue here, when you sign up, you can’t write into most of the forums and you can’t PM.

Your best bet is asking those who you found helpful to send you a PM with their email address. (You can’t even answer a PM now.)

 

[Anonymous2]

Regarding the therapy, I'm already doing It, and if I have to choose come here and talk instead of killing me, I rather talk here, even if I don't get 100% good advices(yes, some advices here does more harm than good I know), but there are good advices out here.

How long have you been doing it?

Do you have some kind of diagnosis?

 

[Jin]

Clop ,

Do you like tripping ? because God does

God loves to trip , that is what life is , a trip , an experience , a dream , a game there are many ways to look at it yet God loves to experience life , that is why it's here , to be experienced , that is the point , the meaning

Also life is death , each minute you live is another minute you're dying , there is nothing else

And talking about earthly matters if life is too tough what makes you think death is easier , they are after all two sides of the same coin

naturally at its time death will come for you to end this experience , take comfort in that if you can't handle this trip anymore

also you will be expelled out of God's oneness since you don't like tripping , and thus are not God ,

If you seek oneness you'll find it in life , and if all you seek is an end to this trip then you shall find it too in life

Everything is here life is a part of death and death is life , you die you live , you live you die , if you seek oneness forget about life forget about death , the path that you're looking for is not in either of them , its in the freedom of your mind

Killing yourself is just a thought that passes through your mind , don't let a thought be your master , allow this to pass and be on its way ,

Seek oneness , not an end to this trip

for God loves to trip

 

[Anonymous2]

It does not mean it is okay to hurt yourself, because you are eternal.

It means you should not hurt yourself. You should do your best to stay alive and realize how you exist. Hurting yourself is never the correct answer to find peace, love, and happiness. The opposite of it is.

 

[clop]

I could talk to you about my transformative psychedelic experience(s) if you want; when it happened, I was indeed suicidal beforehand and it was so powerful it left me struggling with how to make sense of it for years. It was transformative and for me eliminated the idea of suicide as legitimate (funny how unity works, different strokes? Or is it all inherent in the individual?) but left me, like you, emptied of meaning. Nothing made sense anymore. I was told the cosmic joke when I was 15 but did not get it I guess until 30 years later- in a psychedelic sense, and suffered all that time, becoming more and more marginalized in a sea of meaninglessness. It messed me up and has taken me a long time to integrate into a integral aspect of my being. Eventually, I was able to parse out meaning- real meaning derived from my own values and worldview- and put it into action, and live a life that I am proud to enjoy. You will FIND meaning in your professional life, personal relationships, the knowledge and wisdom you acquire and through the love you give.

Unfortunately, this wonderful gift of life and consciousness does not have a "meaning" setting built-in. It's a plug-in. That's why we have religions, power structures, economies, all the bullshit that runs the everyday world and creates that meaning for you. But that is for the folks that haven't seen what you have seen, is it? That's the challenge, young person, don't falter.

I'm not going to moralize or should all over you, that is not productive IMO&E, but I will say that I wholeheartedly agree with the implorations of the others here, you have been offered some solid advice, talk about invading lucid dreams and being a bad DMT-promoter aside. That said, I don't think you can know the suffering that a departure like that causes around you. It is the ultimate F-off. I do agree that pro-help might be useful, more in psychological than psychiatric sense, but also know how challenging and scary that can be to apprehend for yourself. For now, it is good that you are in a community.

We don't know who you are, cannot intervene and there are immense risks in interacting with you- to you. I see some others kind of pushing up on you, don't take anything personal, we do not know you as a person- it is the internet, only a step up from facebook. However I do want to engage you, when you say that it feels forced to extract meaning from life/universe/everything, why is that? That is, after all, really kind of your job as a consciousness. You don't sound like you are focused on material gain, but that something terribly important is missing from your experience in this world. What is it?

How can we talk? I would like to

 

[Anonymous2]

I was told the cosmic joke when I was 15 but did not get it I guess until 30 years later- in a psychedelic sense, and suffered all that time, becoming more and more marginalized in a sea of meaninglessness. It messed me up and has taken me a long time to integrate into a integral aspect of my being. Eventually, I was able to parse out meaning- real meaning derived from my own values and worldview- and put it into action, and live a life that I am proud to enjoy.

I think many of us would be glad to read about that cosmic joke and experience (regardless of whether we are one or not).

So, please, if you don’t mind, share it here.

 

[Asher7]

Hey clop, I think I can relate a bit with where you’re at. A couple of things came to mind while reading this.

First off is if you ever find yourself actively perusing the suicide route it’s real important to call someone and talk to them first. Whoever that is, a hotline, someone. Regardless of what your situation looks or feels like, you just can’t end your life. As far as I’ve been able to sort it out, and I’ve spent a chunk of time trying to sort it out, the perception of suicide is all a lie. It’s not what it appears to be or feel and by the time that realization shows, it’ll be too late. That’s not a road you want to go down, so you just can’t do it. Who am I to say that? Just another dude who found myself here.

The oneness thing as I understand it is that we are all one in that we’re made of the same thing, which is life. Think of our minds like cups, and life is water filling the cup. The water is always water which is life, but there’s many cups. Each of us is a different cup, we have individuality. There’s only one source for life though. The oneness is us seeing past how things appear which is us all being on our own, and then seeing that the water is all ‘one’, it’s the one source, which is life, and we’re all tuned into it right now and fills us all. So we’re all like individual guests being invited to be filled with this one water.

As far as meaning, you know as simple as it sounds it’s actually a pretty profound thing but I think the main meaning of life is just to hang out and enjoy each other’s company. Fellowship with your fellow humans. It’s something that can take you a lifetime to realize and then when the reality of it leaving really comes into light, that’s what it’s all about. A lot of different stuff will be propped up as being meaningful, but it’s usually not naturally attracting and at the end of the day lets you down, even though it was supposed to mean something. It’s come to my attention that since birth, people have been training me on how I “should” live and what has inherent value etc and it’s turning out to be almost exactly backwards. It’s hard work not seeing things as how I was taught and to see them in this new light that personal experience is showing me. At the end of the day, I think we’re just supposed to hang out, enjoy each others company and get our bearings so to speak. Truth can become apparent in lessons of what not to do, know what I’m saying? We’re still being formed, the process isn’t finished yet.

So it’s really important not to disrupt that forming process based off a frame by frame analysis because where we’re headed isn’t here. We’re going to end up somewhere else. This life has highs and lows, it’s really unstable in that regard but for the most part that’s all just stuff. The real value is the water and the cups, so it’s real important you don’t break your glass and spill the water. There’s a process going on here.

You know, if you go through a hard time and you make it through, you find the way and then one day you see someone in the middle of that hard time, your going through that hard time allows you to better relate with that person you see going through it. It adds a level of closeness and meaning, you two bond on a more significant level than had neither of you had those problems. My point being that in this process, a lot of things that at face value seem terrible, down the road can actually lead to more profound experiences with other people, but it’s important that you let the process keep going for that to happen.

So no matter what today looks like, just make it a sort of rule, you just can’t do that. You can’t cut the process short. There’s something out there that can pull you out of the funk, that’s your meaning, find that thing that pulls you out of the funk.

Remember, you’re the only Clop we got. The number of people is many, the number of Clops is 1.

 

[Anonymous2]

It is true that others can be important, and human relationships can be wonderful, but I think you can’t stay alive for others.

You can stay alive only for yourself.

It’s a cliche that "happiness must come from inside". It’s a cliche because it’s true.

 

[Asher7]

It’s a mutual thing how I see it. Helping you helps me. The synergy thing where 1+1=3.

Where we’re at right now is incredibly rare. Think of the entire process that had to happen to get you here right now. As best as I can sort it out there’s some factor going on that makes this feel “normal” and at times dull etc. I’ve had rapid shifts in my mood/outlook before, but what I’m looking at is the same thing, the world is a sort of constant. So a lot of my “value system” seems to hinge on just where my head is at. So I know now that when I’m at a low or pessimistic, angry, that I could very well be wrong and it’s important not to make any permanent decisions, especially something like ending my life.

My suicidal thoughts as it turns out wasn’t me wanting to be dead, it was based on wanting to get away from this life. People have made this life quite the burden. So it was being stuck between a rock and a hard place, it wasn’t me genuinely wanting to die. So I can only speak for myself but I can see now those driving forces aren’t authentic, therefore if I were to act, it would lead to regret. Those pushes are very persuasive you know?

I can’t tell anyone what to do but I can offer advice based off my experiences. There’s a lot of burden and a lot of beauty in this life and if you aren’t really focused you could mistake one for the other or the source of where it’s coming from and the perception of wanting to be dead vs just not wanting to do your daily routine anymore can look really similar.

 

[null24]

I could talk to you...

How can we talk? I would like to

Well until we get you promoted, we are stuck here. I can't say how far along that process is, sorries. It is a huge hassle, but you'll appreciate it one day.
If you have more anonymous concerns and would like to converse via PM, we'll see if there's some work-around.
Be good to ya, glad to see you sticking in there.
If there is anything you'd like to ask here, feel free.

 

[sbios]

If I may offer couple point of views on this whole issue about terminating on demand... I believe there are levels of understanding and knowing of Oneness. Intellectually understanding we are all one is part of it, through different methods to experience and feel the connections and merging with all that is are parts of it. It can go so much higher than most of us realize, I suspect.

On a more practical aspect, please if you have a chance to check out this book: Tibetan Book of the Dead. I found it helped me to see life on another perspective. That's essentially about reincarnation and the passage to the next life. Early termination is a choice, but might not be a right choice. There is a certain malice, a murdering intent that is of ending a living being, which includes the self. [edit: Unless the giving of life is of sacrifice to higher purpose, or with a level of surrender or enlightenment...etc, where it does not cause additional trauma. Of course this is base on my interpretations and you're free to consider it.] Therefore, an early termination of oneself in this life with unresolved issues with this [potentially] additional negative action will likely bring forth additional harsh lessons in future experiences until the soul is ready to accept the love and love oneself. Having a physical experience is an opportunity to experience deeply and create fully. That is, if you are willing to give your life, then give your life for a grand vision of your choice.

 

[monomind]

Hi guys, I'm new here and I'm sorry to post this controversial and polemic topic but I needed to take out of my chest.

I've been struggling through depression for a while but before this pandemic shit I was taking ayahuasca and it was helping me. The thing is that on some trips it came to my knowledge a side of me that wanted to end this physical body/experience and it struck me like a lightning bolt.

After I watch this video:

which Leo from actualized tells about his 30-day experience with DMT, it made me consider even more this option of suicide. The point that touched me is the fact that if we all are just one, (and I kinda believe this a little bit because of the ayahuasca experiences) and we live this illusion of separation, why not just end all this suffering and miserable life that I'm leaving and merge "this infinite love" that doesn't require a body.

I appreciate your help.

Cheers

Hi Clop,

I find several issues with your way of thinking.

First one is practical: based on scientific knowledge and some simple first person experiences, it is more than reasonable to assume that in order to maintain the state of oneness with the universe/life etc. you need a functioning nervous system i.e. a physically functioning brain. That's enough of a reason to take care of yourself and live a healthy life.

Second one is that even if we assume that the state of oneness has no preference for the life of a specific single human being, then it also has no preferences towards his/her extinction. So ending your physical life makes no sense in this light. The most you can validly say is "it does not really matter"... and in this case I think that choosing oneness, or non-separation, as a motivation and a source of meaning to live is a much more respectful and interesting choice than the other one ( which btw, is coming at all of us one way or another at some point when the universe so decides )

Third one is that given that you are part of everything else, of the oneness,
it is your personal responsibility to sustain it, to do your part in it, and use whatever means at your disposal to propagate the sense of love and compassion it entails.

Wishing you peace and the power to change that which you want changing :thumb_up:

 

[Anonymous2]

I find several issues with your way of thinking.

First one [...]

Third one [...]

I wonder why no one mentioned that doing it because "we all are one so it doesn’t matter" would render the all-time classics invalid forever:

 

[clop]

If I may offer couple point of views on this whole issue about terminating on demand... I believe there are levels of understanding and knowing of Oneness. Intellectually understanding we are all one is part of it, through different methods to experience and feel the connections and merging with all that is are parts of it. It can go so much higher than most of us realize, I suspect.

On a more practical aspect, please if you have a chance to check out this book: Tibetan Book of the Dead. I found it helped me to see life on another perspective. That's essentially about reincarnation and the passage to the next life. Early termination is a choice, but might not be a right choice. There is a certain malice, a murdering intent that is of ending a living being, which includes the self. [edit: Unless the giving of life is of sacrifice to higher purpose, or with a level of surrender or enlightenment...etc, where it does not cause additional trauma. Of course this is base on my interpretations and you're free to consider it.] Therefore, an early termination of oneself in this life with unresolved issues with this [potentially] additional negative action will likely bring forth additional harsh lessons in future experiences until the soul is ready to accept the love and love oneself. Having a physical experience is an opportunity to experience deeply and create fully. That is, if you are willing to give your life, then give your life for a grand vision of your choice.

Thanks man for your interpretation. I like your point of view because you don't put "You can't, or you are not allowed, or its a sin or whatever" some people point. And the freedom to contemplate these options without being forced helps the discussion.

 

[clop]

How can we talk? I would like to

Well until we get you promoted, we are stuck here. I can't say how far along that process is, sorries. It is a huge hassle, but you'll appreciate it one day.
If you have more anonymous concerns and would like to converse via PM, we'll see if there's some work-around.
Be good to ya, glad to see you sticking in there.
If there is anything you'd like to ask here, feel free.[/quote]

You seem to be an old member, don't you know any admin who can help?