DMT Extraction Q21Q21's Tek Vs. Marsofold Tek with safety as a factor

[Lyghtsout]

I got my hands on 1,500 grams of powdered MHRB. From the research I've done I'm stuck between the Q21Q21's tek and the Marsofold tek. I'd normally just go for the tried and true Marsofold tek except I'm pretty intimidated by using lye. Is it better to just go with the Q21Q21's tek for the safety factor of not having to use this compound? Are the results of the Marsofold tek superior in yield or purity - and if so - worth the risk of using lye?

If chemical resistant gloves and eye protection are used along with caution is there much to worry about? I have no prior experience with hazardous chemicals, but I am good at being cautious when needed.

Also how do you weigh out the lye? I imagine putting it on a scale would be a dangerous idea. And how slow is it added to the distilled water?

In your opinion, if Marsofold is attempted, would it be better to do few big extractions or many small ones? With safety being the biggest concern.

Thanks in advance,
Lyghtsout

 

[Entheogenerator]

Welcome to The Nexus Lyghtsout!

Both teks can be used to extract a clean, reasonably pure yield. Marsofold's tek would probably be the easier of the two, but obviously Q21Q21's tek uses food-safe reagents and solvents. I haven't used Q21Q21's tek yet, so I can't say from experience whether or not the potential yields from the two teks are comparable.

Nitrile gloves, chemical resistant eye-protection, and caution are definitely the biggest factors. I wear my respirator when working with lye, but only because I am paranoid. I don't think it is necessary at all. A dust mask or something might put your mind at ease a little bit, just make sure it isn't going to fog up your goggles. Keep vinegar on hand to neutralize any lye or lye-containing solution that spills. Just read up on all the safety precautions if you do decide to use lye: i.e. what the risks are, how it should be handled, what to do if you do get any on you, etc. I have been using lye for extractions fairly frequently for several years (although not nearly as long as some of the O.G. Nexians) and I have never spilled any on myself. I have certainly spilled some on the floor, but never been burned by it. *knocks on wood*

I use a small glass dish and I have a relatively cheap scale that I use for weighing lye and nothing else, both of which I clean very meticulously with vinegar after using. Lye should be added pretty slowly to water, stirring constantly. I add about 10g at a time, stir until it is completely dissolved, then add another 10g, and so on. Probably slower than is absolutely necessary, but I'd rather be too cautious than not cautious enough.

As far as one big extraction versus several small ones, that's really up to you. If lye is your concern then your choices are really to work with a lot of lye at once and then be done with it, or work with small amounts of lye multiple times. For your first couple extractions you would probably be better off starting small, that way if something goes wrong that can't be fixed you will have only wasted 50g or 100g rather than 1.5 kg. There's really no need to extract 1.5 kg MHRB all at once, in my opinion. 300g of average-quality MHRB will typically yield more than enough spice for a person to vaporize a large breakthrough dose (60mg or so) every week for a year.

Although I can understand the allure of having a vial full of 10g DMT that will last me several years, I prefer to keep rootbark on hand (stored away from light, heat, and air) and extract small amounts at a time as I work my way through my stash. Some people may feel differently, but that's my opinion on it.

I hope this excessively long reply has been helpful! :thumb_up:

 

[Lyghtsout]

Thanks! I read through it and it helped a lot!

I'm still undecided which tek to go with. I'd prefer to avoid lye if there's really no or slightly a difference in the final product. I may end up doing the Q21Q21 tek with 200 grams and see how it goes.

A question I have is should the Q21Q21 work with Acacia Confusa inner root bark? I think it'd be good to practice with that, as it was a pain in the ass getting Mimosa from someone in the U.S. and I bought them out lol.

Thanks again!

 

[Lyghtsout]

Also, once the lye is dissolved in the H2O the exothermic reaction stops so more can be added right after? How do you know you're pouring in close to 10g's at a time? I'm assuming eyeballing it's pretty safe?

 

[Lyghtsout]

Will lye still burn it gets on your skin or the floor dry? I know eyes it still would be, but is it only really caustic once it's moist or wet?

 

[User1911]

When the lye is mixed in the water and gets on you, yes it will sting. Wear gloves while adding it to the water and when shaking the solution. Keep it away from furniture, it can eat through material.

You can weigh the lye by using a coffee filter on top of the scale. Put newspaper or paper towels down under your work area so no lye contacts furniture.

And have plenty of paper towels handy. Things can get a little messy.

 

[Mimosa_Man]

A question I have is should the Q21Q21 work with Acacia Confusa inner root bark? I think it'd be good to practice with that, as it was a pain in the ass getting Mimosa from someone in the U.S. and I bought them out lol.

Thanks again!

It seems to me you have away more than enough MHRB to last you a long time. No need to worry about extracting more for at least a year. Unless of course you intend to distribute a ton of it unsafely and possibly immorally...

 

[Entheogenerator]

Lye will burn you whether it is dry, wet, hot, cold, powdered, microbeads, purple, blue... lye will burn if it touches your skin. Period.

The lye will create an exothermic reaction each time you add a little bit to the water, hence the emphasis on adding it slowly. The heat from the first ten grams will combine with the heat from the second ten grams, and so on. Basically when it is added slowly, the water is able to cool off slightly in between each 10g of lye that is added. If say 100g were just dumped into water all at once, all of that heat would be released simultaneously, making the water boil and splash, and possibly cracking glassware. Although that description probably makes it seem a lot more sketchy than it really is, it is still something that needs to be done with caution. A tablespoon is approximately 15g of lye, so you can use a measuring spoon to eyeball/estimate 10g.

Q21Q21's tek will work with ACRB, but I would recommend starting with 50 or 100 grams. ACRB is still valuable stuff, albeit slightly less rare than MHRB.

The only reason that I would recommend Marsofold's tek over Q21Q21's for a beginner is because Marsofold's is a little bit simpler. The drytek/food-safe extractions require a few more steps than standard A/B teks, meaning therre is a little bit more room for error. The dryteks also require a few additional solvents/reagents. I am in no way trying to discourage you from doing Q21Q21's tek, I'm just throwing in my two cents.

One more thing I feel I should mention is that I believe the dryteks usually leave a person with a sticky, paste-like product (which is actually reasonably pure freebase DMT), so if you decide to go that route you would need to recrystallize your extract in order to produce a yield comparable to that of a standard A/B.

 

[Lyghtsout]

Thanks for the info! Is it better to use a plastic spoon or a metal one?

What I'm planning on doing is add 10 grams wait 20 minutes add 10 grams wait 20 minutes etc. My biggest concern isn't getting burned as much as having it flash boil and the bottle breaks then I got a real mess on my hands. I'd rather be really patient then extremely sorry.

Thanks again,
Lyghtsout

 

[frozenthunderbolt]

Thanks for the info! Is it better to use a plastic spoon or a metal one?

For dry lye (as opposed to liquid solutions of it) either will be fine - i have used both to measure it out in soapmaking.

Once it is in any kind of liquid form the only metal it should contact is a high grade stainless steel, and then as briefly as possible.

It must NEVER touch, copper or aluminum as it will eat straight through them (and i believe it will also release hydrogen gas, though i may be wrong on that one)

 

[Entheogenerator]

For dry lye (as opposed to liquid solutions of it) either will be fine - i have used both to measure it out in soapmaking.

Once it is in any kind of liquid form the only metal it should contact is a high grade stainless steel, and then as briefly as possible.

It must NEVER touch, copper or aluminum as it will eat straight through them (and i believe it will also release hydrogen gas, though i may be wrong on that one)

Yes, you are right, frozenthunderbolt. When aqueous solutions of NaOH come into contact with aluminum (not sure about copper), hydrogen gas is created. Hydrogen gas is highly flammable over a wide range of concentrations, and in high concentrations it could displace the air in the room and cause asphyxiation. Stainless steel, glass, and HDPE are the only materials I would recommend that you allow to come in contact with lye.

 

[Lyghtsout]

Roughly how long do you wait between adding each tablespoon of lye? Are you good as soon as it dissolves? And if so, how long does that take?

What container would be the most safe for mixing lye with water? HDPE2, stainless steel, or glass?

Thanks in advance,
Lyghtsout

 

[Lyghtsout]

Also I imagine pouring the lye h2o solution into the other container that contains the Mimosa would be very dangerous? Cause since it's mixed with h2o it's more caustic? Is there a way to avoid this step?

I'm guessing the best way to do it would to use a stainless steel funnel to avoid splashes being able to come out the top if they occur and hit you, also to avoid the chance of missing the bottle.

 

[User1911]

You're over thinking it. Be safe, don't pour all the lye in at once you'll be fine, just wear gloves have a window open and pour the lye in. Waiting ten minutes per tbl spoon isn't neccesary. Add the lye to water stir slowly for about a minute add more lye stir slowly... Etc you can add multiple tbl spoons at a time and be fine.. The solution will get warm/ its normal. Its not that difficult. You add the mimosa to it you don't pour the lye on it. Its all done in 1 container.

 

[Mimosa_Man]

You're over thinking it. Be safe, don't pour all the lye in at once you'll be fine, just wear gloves have a window open and pour the lye in. Waiting ten minutes per tbl spoon isn't neccesary. Add the lye to water stir slowly for about a minute add more lye stir slowly... Etc you can add multiple tbl spoons at a time and be fine.. The solution will get warm/ its normal. Its not that difficult. You add the mimosa to it you don't pour the lye on it. Its all done in 1 container.

do this:thumb_up:

 

[Entheogenerator]

The last couple of posts are good advice. Once you have finished your acid boils and reduced your acidic bark soup as much as necessary, mix your lye water in the container that you plan to use as your extraction vessel, then add the reduced ACRB soup. Pyrex or borosilicate glass would be the absolute safest material, but I have used plain old mason jars to mix NaOH solutions plenty of times. Stainless steel and HDPE are also both safe to use with NaOH, but then you would have to pour the solution into your extraction vessel rather than just mixing it in the extraction vessel and then adding your ACRB tea. This would increase the risk of spillage, which I am certain you would like to minimize.

If you're really concerned about it, mix your lye solution in a bathtub or HDPE tub. That way if you do manage to add it to fast and the glass breaks (which is pretty rare AFAIK), you can simply wash it all down the drain.

For the record, lye is not "more caustic" when it's in a solution. It is equally caustic whether it is dry or wet. I think you are probably building up the risks of working with lye in your head too much and psyching yourself out, much like I did when I was new to extraction. Sure, it's caustic and it requires a good bit of caution. But if a person utilizes the recommended safety precautions, it can be used with minimal risk. :thumb_up:

 

[Mimosa_Man]

Since we are on the topic of safety, im going to be using a Methanol/Lye solution to disolve my MHRB powder. do i need a respirator for the evaping mathanol vapors?

 

[Entheogenerator]

Since we are on the topic of safety, im going to be using a Methanol/Lye solution to disolve my MHRB powder. do i need a respirator for the evaping mathanol vapors?

It certainly wouldn't be a bad idea. Otherwise you would probably need some serious ventilation...

EDIT: Do you mind explaining your reason for using a methanol/lye solution? I'm not trying to discourage you, I just have never heard of this method and I'm not aware of any advantage it would provide.

 

[Tranzcentral]

Wow thats a lot of bark.

Your dedicating one Tek to the whole 1500g's are you?:shock:

Seeing as you have so much, i greatly suggest Vovins Tek for very clean and pure spice.

Lye is just Sodium Hydroxide, used for soap, not just drain cleaner. It's very safe, but you must be careful, like not throwing Lye onto hot water, etc stuff like that.

 

[Entheogenerator]

Wow thats a lot of bark.

Your dedicating one Tek to the whole 1500g's are you?:shock:

Seeing as you have so much, i greatly suggest Vovins Tek for very clean and pure spice.

Lye is just Sodium Hydroxide, used for soap, not just drain cleaner. It's very safe, but you must be careful, like not throwing Lye onto hot water, etc stuff like that.

If you read the rest of the thread, the OP was not necessarily intending to extract all of the bark at once, and I recommended that he do smaller extractions.

Vovin's tek and Marsofold's tek are both pretty standard A/B teks, and they can both be used to yield reasonably pure DMT when followed exactly. The only things that are included in Vovin's tek that aren't in a lot of others is a sodium carbonate wash, which has pretty much become standard practice for a lot of the experienced DMT extractors, and a defat step which is really unnecessary when working with MHRB.

Regardless of what it is used for apart from cleaning drains and extracting alkaloids, I would hardly consider sodium hydroxide to be "very safe"... "Relatively safe when all safety precautions are followed" might be a little more accurate.