DMT fumarate reacting with iron?

[Jazz_Jackrabbit]

After FASA tek I finished with some red beautiful red colored tiny crystals on the bottom of a crystalizing dish. For freebase conversion I scraped it off (got a nice red powder/crystal substance it shined a bit like glitter).

Even though everything that was in the dish got there after evaporating a filtered water-based solution I had a hard time dissolving it in water again??? I used 250mg of fumarate and about 20ml of water and even then I had to use a magnetic stirrer for a few hours, the stirrer has a iron stir bar which I used. After stiring I'm left with a GRAY solution with some dark gray fine particles on the bottom (about a quarter of the water on the bottom is a suspention of the mentioned particles)

What the heck did I just make? I posted my entire tek in the "extraction problems" tread, the only difference being that this time after some more pulls I was left with powder/crystal fumarate while the first few pulls produced a dark red goo that hardened over time. Also the yield was less than 0.5%.

I'm on the verge of binning this project as it just seems to be problem after problem even after following the teks exactly as written. The yield is low, the product is strange (red?), and I can't seem to make freebase from it (fumarate solution + Na2CO3 solution producet clouding, but the particles were so fine they passed right trough the filter paper. I even tried using ether so the freebase would dissolve in it but ether 2 pulls with a lot of shaking before yieded only a few mg from the original 250mg?

If it's neceserry I have a few pictures of MDT fumarate, some pictures right after adding FASA and a few of ether-supposedly freebase solute in water if that is of any help.

 

[daspaismusflo]

Ok so you finished your dmt-fumarate conversion and are trying to put the dmt-fumarate in water. That is what your talking about right? Freebase in acetone the fumaric acid to make dmt-fumarate? That is FASA.

Wait, I just read your post which is this:

I tried the FASA method for the first time and something musht have gone wrong (aka I fucked up)

To start, I got my MHRB from a reliable european vendor in shredded form. I ground it all to a fine powder with some fibers in a blender.

Acetone was dried with anhydrous MgSO4, and with that a saturated citric and fumaric solution was made.

I took 200g of the powder(I hate very small scale extractions so I went with 200g since it seemed like enough to not be inefficient from filtering, recrystalization, ... loses (I didn't want to have to scrape miligams of DMT from filter paper)

200g of MHRB was placed in a jar and covered with CASA solution, enough that it was about 2cm above the plant material when it settled. Mixing every 45min I waited about 2,5h per pull and did 4 pulls so far. Every pull provided me with some dark red colored liquid which I then filtered to remove any remaining plant material. What remained was about 0,8L of red acetone, the color was intense and even with a very bright light it was impossible to see trough the container.

Being paranoid about possible water from the air getting in to my acetone,I opened the jar and placed it in a container with about 100g of magnesium sulphate and closed the lid. After 12h the sulphate gained an aditional 1,3g in weight which was presumably water acetone pulled from the air and from the plant material from the extraction.

Satisfied with the fact that I had 0% water in my acetone now, I added 200mL of FASA which contained about 1,4g of fumaric acid. It was not dropwise as I was concerned about water again so I just dumped it all in, not caring about pretty crystal formation as I was going to make freebase anyway.

A bit more than 2 days later I poured off the liquid (in another container of course) and scraped what looked like very shitty oily crystals from the bottom. They were not yellow but red. After drying (it fells dry and does not smell of acetone but could probably wait some more) I was left with about 0.65g of red material. It feels like some very good hash if you know the texture - a soft piece of tar that I can bend without it sticking to my fingers. It's not see trough, in fact from 30cm away it looks like a black piece of tar, only when you flatten it in a thin sheet can you see the vibrant red color. Which is see tough (no plant matter).


Considering 200g were used this seems a bit shit, with people reporting 1-2% yields, and this is a 0.325% yield and even that is in the fumarate form so in reality its less than 0.3%. Where did I fuck up? Will more dmt appear at the bottom? I'm going to do some more pulls but my acetone guy screwed me the last second so I didn't have any acetone to do a few more pulls so that's happening tomorrow since my acetone is drying now.

Another thing, how do you people recycle the acetone afterwards? Considering you use an excess of fumaric acid every time you have to remove it somehow before adding it to a fresh batch of MHRB. Should I just use a base to salt it out somehow?

Any help is very much appreciated, and I'm glad to provide more information about the extraction.

Well I am not experience with that sort of tek. I only have done A/B and STB then converted to fumarate salt which is really simple easy to follow and easy to udnerstand.

The best thing to do right now is base whatever that suppose dmt is and pull it with a solvent like naphtha and see if you get anything, it will also remove some of the red impurities too.

I looked at the tek once and just thought "no way am I going to try that" but I am sure others maybe maybe might help you here.

Curious though, why didn't you just do a standard A/B or STB? Then you would have no problems converting your freebase to dmt-fumarate.

 

[Jazz_Jackrabbit]

"The best thing to do right now is base whatever that suppose dmt is and pull it with a solvent like naphtha and see if you get anything, it will also remove some of the red impurities too."

Tried that, I added ether to a fumarate solution+Na2CO3 solution(both water solutions), forming 2 layers and hopefully extracting the freebase from water and removing and evaporating the ether - I got 5-10of freebase goo from 500mg fumarate.

Thought maybe some some ether and water mixed and that was the problem so I dried everything and added anhydrous acetone with the same goal as before. After hours of vigorous shaking, I removed the acetone and evaporated, I got about 10-20mg freebase from 50mg fumarate so something must be horribly wrong.

I retried everything and now have fumarate again but am afraid to try the fumarate to base so I don't lose another gram of DMT.

The reason I want for FASA is that naphtha is non existant where I live and alternatives are only available from chemical suppliers. Also I dislike the idea of retrieving DMT based on changing solubility by temperature, there is always going to be a bit left in the solution where as everything can be transformed to fumarate with fasa method so when done right the efficiency seems to be great. Also I have a very good source of acetone.

I posted another post with picture in the other thread if that helps.

 

[Emptiness]

I retried everything and now have fumarate again but am afraid to try the fumarate to base so I don't lose another gram of DMT.

Nothing is lost, it is just still in the solution. Must find a way to extract it, it seems your ether isn't working that well though so perhaps you could source another solvent even though you don't want to.

 

[Jazz_Jackrabbit]

Nothing is lost, it is just still in the solution. Must find a way to extract it, it seems your ether isn't working that well though so perhaps you could source another solvent even though you don't want to

It might not be lost, but nobody knows in what form it is, or what it even is, if freebase was in there I see no reason why ether or acetone did not work.

I'm starting to think there is a problem with what I'm getting from the FASA method, I'm not even sure it's fumarate. Chemicals have chemical properties, and those properties don't change fumarate should dissolve in water, but every time I try I get this gray mess and no matter how much I shake it never fully dissolves. Some of it forms fine particles that nearly instantly clog up any filter paper.

Do you have any idea on what I should do? I don't mean with this stupid-mysterious-inseparable-garbage, but with my remaining MHRB. If I take pictures of every step in my method surely somebody can figure out what the hell is going on. I'd like to keep switching methods of extraction as my last option - chemistry does not just "not work" for no reason, and if the tek is correct this should not be happening. Also I'm very well stocked on reagents for FASA which I would rather not have to give away. While I don't have bulk amounts of other solvents, I have access to a lot of chemicals for troubleshooting if someone can recommend anything - to test where things are going wrong.

 

[Emptiness]

Nothing is lost, it is just still in the solution. Must find a way to extract it, it seems your ether isn't working that well though so perhaps you could source another solvent even though you don't want to

It might not be lost, but nobody knows in what form it is, or what it even is, if freebase was in there I see no reason why ether or acetone did not work.

I'm starting to think there is a problem with what I'm getting from the FASA method, I'm not even sure it's fumarate. Chemicals have chemical properties, and those properties don't change fumarate should dissolve in water, but every time I try I get this gray mess and no matter how much I shake it never fully dissolves. Some of it forms fine particles that nearly instantly clog up any filter paper.

Do you have any idea on what I should do? I don't mean with this stupid-mysterious-inseparable-garbage, but with my remaining MHRB. If I take pictures of every step in my method surely somebody can figure out what the hell is going on. I'd like to keep switching methods of extraction as my last option - chemistry does not just "not work" for no reason, and if the tek is correct this should not be happening. Also I'm very well stocked on reagents for FASA which I would rather not have to give away. While I don't have bulk amounts of other solvents, I have access to a lot of chemicals for troubleshooting if someone can recommend anything - to test where things are going wrong.

I feel your pain bro but I don't know what you are doing with all that stuff. My only suggestion is source some new chemicals and double check they are pure.

I know when I put dmt-fumarate in to water sometimes it takes a while to dissolve esp if they are big crystals. I squish them and roll them with my fingers and it comes apart eventually. I also have to use repeated fresh water to get all of it out.

If I was in your position I would get lye or carbonate then source some naptha or xyxlene and pull with that. Ebay can help you or just make a weekend road trip.

I hope someone else on here can help who has more experience with your chems and methods but it is a bit slow on this forum so you might want to PM a mod and get there att.

try endlessness, I read a lot of his posts about FASA etc.