DMT induced muscle spasms and arrhythmia?

[TrigZu]

Can DMT cause muscle spasms? It seems like I am randomly having muscle spasms while I'm in hyperspace. It's like I'm twitching. It's very distracting to say the least. I get body shakes before and after the experience also. I probably have them during the trip too, but I haven't noticed them. This didn't used to happen... I don't think they did at least.

Also, the other day I experienced arrhythmia, an irregular heart beat. Tachycardia to be exact (A very fast heart beat). It didn't scare me, as I've experienced it a few other times in my life, but then it was under physical stress. I remember once I got it while I was swimming and another time I got it while I was cutting a tree with an axe. It's almost like some kind of heart attack, but not. Your heart just beats really fucking fast. You think perfectly fine, and it doesn't hurt, but there's no way to stop it. It's like, I'm not breathing hard, or doing anything too physically exhausting, so why is my heart beating so fast and hard? I took a pretty big hit then my friend turned on some really fast and loud techno music with a lot of bass in his car. I think that's what caused it. It was very mind sobering though. As I began to experience tachycardia I could instantly think normal again, but I was interpreting the world differently (things looked brighter, felt different, etc., etc.) I have been very sober minded ever since then whenever I smoke DMT except when using very large doses. AKA, being unable to blast off.

Are things like this normal?

 

[Garulfo]

Can DMT cause muscle spasms?

Yes, definitivly. Spams from the whole body, but curiously not unpleasant.
Same for tachychardia which is more annoying. However, it may be also that ones inner feelings about ones heartbeats is exagerated while tripping. Maybe ask someone to check you heart pulses ?

 

[soulfood]

When I first started with DMT my eyes would open when I REALLY didn't want them to. Not anymore though. I seem to be able to lay completely still once in the trance.

 

[d*l*b]

I’ve experienced muscle spasms quite a few times, both during peak and in comedown. At first the spasms going through my whole body were a bit of a shock and I was really quite worried.

The spasms seem to happen less regularly at the moment and when they do they are less intense than they used to be. I find them very enjoyable when they happen now, I think the feeling is something close to orgasmic

 

[TrigZu]

Muscle soreness/tension from DMT - DMT Discussion - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus

There is one case on record of someone nearly dying from an injection of 40 mg of DMT. Symptoms included tachycardia, a rapid fall in blood pressure, extreme cyanosis, and auricular fibrillation. This lead to cardiac arrest, but the test subject was saved via vigorous cardiac massage.

So in short, DMT would have likely killed the test subject had the subject not been revived. The subject's heart stopped beating.

I would NOT go deep into it if you're experience those kinds of side effects from it.

The safety of smoking DMT is unknown. With at least one near fatal incident on record from injecting 40 mg of DMT, I would be VERY CAUTIOUS going in deeper with the symptoms you described.

DMT is actually quite toxic. The LD50 for DMT is lower than bufotenine. Bufotenine has a bad reputation because of it's known bodily side effects when injected, but all lab tests show that DMT is actually more toxic. The only time bufotenine ever showed toxicity that was close to that of DMT was when it was administered to test subjects along with chlorpromazine.

This makes me very unhappy...

My tachycardia ended in less than 5 minutes, but I'm 100% sure I wasn't imagining it. But to correct 69ron, from what I read the patient didn't ever die, thus was never revived. In fact "vigorous cardiac massage" is a method of stopping tachycardia so in reality they just prevented what may have been a death. My guess is that the tachycardia would have simply ended as mine did. I sure hope this isn't the end of the road with the spirit molecule for me though. I've really enjoyed my time with it and have learned a lot.

Then there's this though:

An increase in sympathetic nervous system stimulation causes the heart rate to increase, both by the direct action of sympathetic nerve fibers on the heart and by causing the endocrine system to release hormones such as epinephrine (adrenaline), which have a similar effect. Increased sympathetic stimulation is usually due to physical or psychological stress. This is the basis for the so-called "Fight or Flight" response, but such stimulation can also be induced by stimulants such as ephedrine, amphetamines or cocaine. Certain endocrine disorders such as pheochromocytoma can also cause epinephrine release and can result in tachycardia independent nervous system stimulation. Hyperthyroidism can also cause tachycardia.

Paroxysmal tachycardia seems to be what I suffered from, and I think the muscle spasms are related to the tachycardia. IDK... I'll take it easy for the next week and see how it goes after that.

 

[Pokey]

You really smoke DMT in a car?:shock:

Also injecting 40 mg is WAAAYYYYY to much. I think the high dose in the clinical studies by Dr. Strassman was .4mg/kg.

That being said, I wouldn't screw around if you already had an adverse reaction. Not worth dying for. And it will be really hard for your buddy to explain how you died from loud techno in his car....


Pokey

 

[TrigZu]

benzyme simply suggested using a beta blocker like Propranolol. It sounds reasonable enough. I'm doing research on the subject now.

Oh yeah... and he has an awesome car. He built most of it himself. It's an old 71 Monte Carlo, here's a pic!

Badass no? Painted it himself too. I'm very comfortable in it. It's like a second home to me. Plus it has an epic shiny woodgrain-like dashboard thing that morphs while you're in hyperspace.

 

[BGTM236]

Not really related, but i went through a 2-3 week period of time where i was screaming, almost uncontrollably while i was coming down and i think during my trips as well. I wasnt yelling out of fear or pain that i was aware of. This is something that was incredibly strange to me. I was remembering very little about these trips, so i didnt know what to take from it. The only thing that worried me, was that i would freak out one of my neighbors and I would receive some unwelcomed guests.

 

[nadir]

none of beta blockers would stop panic attacks , screaming etc. DIRECTLY.
however, psychosomatically they could help preventing negative thoughts, feelings and so on.

 

[prottel]

TrigZu, do you have any problems with your thyroid? Just wondering, because my girlfriend has similar symptoms. This happens on the harmalas for her. Even in very small doses. Not sure what to do about it.

 

[TrigZu]

none of beta blockers would stop panic attacks , screaming etc. DIRECTLY.
however, psychosomatically they could help preventing negative thoughts, feelings and so on.

I never panicked, honestly. I have no idea why my body decided it should start having my heart pump so hard. I think that the shaking or twitching has something to do with the sympathetic nervous system.

Autonomic and endocrine causes of tachycardia:
An increase in sympathetic nervous system stimulation causes the heart rate to increase, both by the direct action of sympathetic nerve fibers on the heart and by causing the endocrine system to release hormones such as epinephrine (adrenaline), which have a similar effect. Increased sympathetic stimulation is usually due to physical or psychological stress. This is the basis for the so-called "Fight or Flight" response, but such stimulation can also be induced by stimulants such as ephedrine, amphetamines or cocaine. Certain endocrine disorders such as pheochromocytoma can also cause epinephrine release and can result in tachycardia independent nervous system stimulation. Hyperthyroidism can also cause tachycardia.

Propranolol is indicated for the management of various conditions including:
Control of tachycardia/tremor associated with anxiety, hyperthyroidism or lithium therapy.

TrigZu, do you have any problems with your thyroid? Just wondering, because my girlfriend has similar symptoms. This happens on the harmalas for her. Even in very small doses. Not sure what to do about it.

Not that I know of.

Not really related, but i went through a 2-3 week period of time where i was screaming, almost uncontrollably while i was coming down and i think during my trips as well. I wasnt yelling out of fear or pain that i was aware of. This is something that was incredibly strange to me. I was remembering very little about these trips, so i didnt know what to take from it. The only thing that worried me, was that i would freak out one of my neighbors and I would receive some unwelcomed guests.

Yeah, like I said above, I wasn't afraid or anything of the sort, but for some reason my heart still decided to go into overdrive.

 

[ragabr]

SWIM has the tremors for about 20 minutes after breakthrough, although she also gets them from MJ. On her last journey, the Spice entities controlled the patterns of the tremors as she came back.

 

[polytrip]

To me this happens only at the first phase of the trip. At a certain moment the muscle spasms stop.

It seems to be independant from the dose taken.

arrhytmia is a different thing. I think that whether it´s a problem depends on how bad you have it. Very mild arrhytmia is not dangerous.
I have this as well.

Even meditating causes mild arrhytmia in some people.

When you have it realy bad though, it´s a different thing and you probably have it with many more substances and with physical exercise as well.

In that case you might want to see a doctor because maybe it has a deeper cause.

 

[benzyme]

none of beta blockers would stop panic attacks , screaming etc. DIRECTLY.
however, psychosomatically they could help preventing negative thoughts, feelings and so on.

beta-blockers block the autonomic response (by inhibiting epinephrine signaling) resulting from signaling in the amygdala, so yeah..it effectively halts anxiety.
some 30 years after propranolol's entry into the market, they discovered it could be effectively used to treat PTSD :roll:

 

[dmtsymphony]

Interesting. I have been experiencing tremors in my legs and butt while seated, and when coming out of the peak of the experience. This is generally only with higher dose experiences (by higher, I mean 50 - 70 mg - I don't feel the need to really ever go beyond that, although one day I may....who knows) but I do not particularly enjoy these spasms. They are not painful or anything - I just find them distracting and not all that pleasant. I am somewhat comforted to see that I am not alone in this. I must say - tonight's was a very special experience indeed.

 

[BananaForeskin]

I always get twitches and a high heart rate when just beginning the journey, both for aya and for vaped spice. It really only happens at low levels, though, when I haven't taken the second toke or when the aya adventure is just beginning. I found it extremely worrying at the beginning, but both the twitching and the fast heart rate both subside as soon as I go farther down the rabbit hole (not sure why). It always feels like the spice is talking to my body before it talks to my mind, making everything speak and dance without my permission.

One good option is to just not go deeper until you feel comfortable.

 

[dmtsymphony]

Yeah, the weird thing is, I only get these spasms intermittently. Let's say every third dose or something like that. If I do DMT more than once in a day (as is my wont occasionally) it is generally only with the first one that I get them. They are relatively violent and rapid tremors in my legs and ass, and occur in intervals. Five seconds tremor, then stop. Then again, then stop. It is very difficult for me to determine what variables are playing a role in making them happen or not. As soon as I am out of the trance, they subside, but they make it a bit less majestic to be in there. I imagine it is related to my autonomic nervous system somewhat, and perhaps is a by-product of some sort of heightened epinephrine activity. The sheer unpredictability of this symptom is what makes it more mysterious. I can be utterly relaxed before ingestion, and still get them, and I can be slightly nervous before ingestion and not get them. Possibly dosage related, as I eyeball every dose. Who knows. Might just be the batch.

 

[ragabr]

SWIM gets the leg tremors as well. She also gets them from marijuana, and actually much stronger. She always related it to autonomic tension getting released.

Edit: Didn't realize I had already replied to this, nearly exactly the same. Sorry.

 

[Dimitri-Trance]

Muscle soreness/tension from DMT - DMT Discussion - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus

There is one case on record of someone nearly dying from an injection of 40 mg of DMT. Symptoms included tachycardia, a rapid fall in blood pressure, extreme cyanosis, and auricular fibrillation. This lead to cardiac arrest, but the test subject was saved via vigorous cardiac massage.

So in short, DMT would have likely killed the test subject had the subject not been revived. The subject's heart stopped beating.

I would NOT go deep into it if you're experience those kinds of side effects from it.

The safety of smoking DMT is unknown. With at least one near fatal incident on record from injecting 40 mg of DMT, I would be VERY CAUTIOUS going in deeper with the symptoms you described.

DMT is actually quite toxic. The LD50 for DMT is lower than bufotenine. Bufotenine has a bad reputation because of it's known bodily side effects when injected, but all lab tests show that DMT is actually more toxic. The only time bufotenine ever showed toxicity that was close to that of DMT was when it was administered to test subjects along with chlorpromazine.

This makes me very unhappy...

My tachycardia ended in less than 5 minutes, but I'm 100% sure I wasn't imagining it. But to correct 69ron, from what I read the patient didn't ever die, thus was never revived. In fact "vigorous cardiac massage" is a method of stopping tachycardia so in reality they just prevented what may have been a death. My guess is that the tachycardia would have simply ended as mine did. I sure hope this isn't the end of the road with the spirit molecule for me though. I've really enjoyed my time with it and have learned a lot.

Then there's this though:

An increase in sympathetic nervous system stimulation causes the heart rate to increase, both by the direct action of sympathetic nerve fibers on the heart and by causing the endocrine system to release hormones such as epinephrine (adrenaline), which have a similar effect. Increased sympathetic stimulation is usually due to physical or psychological stress. This is the basis for the so-called "Fight or Flight" response, but such stimulation can also be induced by stimulants such as ephedrine, amphetamines or cocaine. Certain endocrine disorders such as pheochromocytoma can also cause epinephrine release and can result in tachycardia independent nervous system stimulation. Hyperthyroidism can also cause tachycardia.

Paroxysmal tachycardia seems to be what I suffered from, and I think the muscle spasms are related to the tachycardia. IDK... I'll take it easy for the next week and see how it goes after that.

DUDE...WTF :?
Ive heard of many people having thousands of experiences with smoked dmt and no one has said anything negative about it like this.

Somebody PLEASE let me know if vaped spice can be dangerous as described above.
Dmt is everything for swim. Its swims purpose. Im my purpose...to fix my self from many things I cant possibly post.
Spice is my life and Swim does not abuse it.
Somebody help. Should swim stop.
Swims has experience the descriptions above. (Many of you might have read my concerns that I have posted of heart and breathing problems).

 

[open'nheart]

SWIM gets the leg tremors as well. She also gets them from marijuana, and actually much stronger. She always related it to autonomic tension getting released.

i hold this same notion. that the body moves to release unnessesarily held tension.