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DMT salts for e-juice

Research DMT salts for e-juice

Overview Reviews (2) Discussion
Research done by (or for) the DMT-Nexus community
Anyone have experience with PEG400 as an alternative to PG? I've seen posts on other forums claiming it's smoother and less likely to cause some of the side effects PG is known for in certain individuals. Though I'm also seeings some claims in the opposite direction, so it's hard to know what's true.
 
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A quick update on my experiments (after I got some pH paper)
  • I tried to wash (2 washes of warm solvent in hot water with sodium carbonate ) + re-X my batch and compare the pH with a non-washed batch => no perceived difference in pH. So it invalidates a bit my "batch contaminated with lye" hypothesis. Side note: I lost a lot of material in the operation!
  • I did 2 vials of juice (10mL), with 500mg DMT. One with the recommended citric acid amount, and compared the pH (see picture below).
  • I tried a lower coil resistance value in my e-cig (0.35 Ohm) with a power of 18-22W => DMT juice was getting darker over time (with the characteristic odour of indole), so I came back to a 0.7Ohm value and bought a dedicated dripper atomizer (DotMod dotRDAX): muuuch better!, no juice darkening, better airflow and ease of use.
Juice pH comparison: without citric acid, and with citric acid:

IMG_9632_r.jpg
The citric acid one had a slightly different color and a bit thicker texture. Citric acid was a bit long to dissolve, even with an hot water bath (next time I'll crush the CA crystals in a fine powder before).

Global TLDR;
  • The citric acid method works well: no more (or almost) burn sensation in throat or lungs after use. It was caused by too high pH of the droplets of the aerosol: DMT Fb eliquid seems to have a pH of ~10/10.5. Adjusting it around 7 seems to do the trick).
  • I still prefer higher atomizer resistances in my setup: less chances to overheat the juice (and to generate harmful citric acid byproducts)
  • I'm quite pleased with my 500mg DMT to 10mL dosage (first tries were with 400-450mg): effective low doses, but not too overwhelming. Nice to make people discover the thing. I might got for 1g / 10mL, but won't go higher than that soon (I'm not chasing the breakthrough)
  • I have the slight impression that the citric acid juice version hits slightly differently than the FB version: less brutal, but a bit quicker. It may be an impression.
 
Hey folks. I am about finally to try the citrate juice, but before i follow the recipe i wanted to ask you if there was a research done in making an e-changa thing? To mix dmt with harmalas for our juice?
 
Kalitechnik said:
Hey folks. I am about finally to try the citrate juice, but before i follow the recipe i wanted to ask you if there was a research done in making an e-changa thing? To mix dmt with harmalas for our juice?
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I think there's a thread somewhere on the forum where they found that harmala salts aren't soluble enough with PG to make a good concentration. Can't remember what the thread is called though.
 
I believe when we were testing the best salt form found that did both dmt and harmala without precipitation issues was lactic acid. I believe Loveall worked with some success with mixing dmt citrate with other harmala salt forms. But from our extensive testing, I found lactic worked very well. I loved the idea of lactic acid from a potential safety POV. However, not everyone was a fan of the taste but one can always add flavoured PG/VG.

Edit: taste is potentially likely to vary between plant sources too.
 
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W O W !!!!
hats off.
well still a bit tripping, so hard to write complex
the vapor so smooth !!!
it works wonders
brought my faith into liquid realms back
thank you !
 
Kalitechnik said:
No. I just did the "classic" Loveall`s recipe.
1 dmt - 0.3 citric - 2 PG

and dosed harmalas in a gel capsules.
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I know people like to use e-mesh for harmala. I use a quartz bucket myself because it's way easier to load, and 10-15mg is enough to get the maoi effect.
And for sure, carrying two atomizers around isn't optimal when you are out and about.
But at home?
I haven't eaten capsules in months because of the inconveniences of loading them. But vaping it is very straightforward.
Plus it's extremely smooth, almost like air.

E-changa certainly would be neat, but if that's impossible? Well, this method ain't half bad.
 
_Trip_ said:
I believe when we were testing the best salt form found that did both dmt and harmala without precipitation issues was lactic acid. I believe Loveall worked with some success with mixing dmt citrate with other harmala salt forms. But from our extensive testing, I found lactic worked very well. I loved the idea of lactic acid from a potential safety POV. However, not everyone was a fan of the taste but one can always add flavoured PG/VG.

Edit: taste is potentially likely to vary between plant sources too.
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Agreed, lactic was best for solubility but the taste was horrible (like vomit).

Sublingual harmala + the dmt citric e-juice is great in my opinion.
 
Now i would like to know how coul di clean my xylene pulls, since i used a bit orangey whitey stuff to make citrate juice and i clogged a coil during one maoi session. I seen some posts where @Loveall was changing goey polimerized dmt into white xtals.... i wish i could recreate the process.
When i look at some recrystalizing videos it looks like they leave lots of good (oily) dmt behind.
 
Kalitechnik said:
Now i would like to know how coul di clean my xylene pulls, since i used a bit orangey whitey stuff to make citrate juice and i clogged a coil during one maoi session. I seen some posts where @Loveall was changing goey polimerized dmt into white xtals.... i wish i could recreate the process.
When i look at some recrystalizing videos it looks like they leave lots of good (oily) dmt behind.
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You could do a backsalt/mini AB on it. This is generally how I extract and the results are always beautiful clean crystals.

PS: I usually use shellite/naphtha as the solvent on the backsalt and freeze precip it.
 
Kalitechnik said:
I used a bit orangey whitey stuff to make citrate juice and i clogged a coil during one maoi session..
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Is this more sensitive with citrate?
My last tank I made from pretty yellow freebase and it still hasn't clogged.
Though I've not used much of it yet so it might clog in due time
 
I had a little session yesterday with my recently made citrate dmt juice, for the first time. I shared it with 2 friends so we could all give our opinion on citrate juice vs freebase juice.
We used a cartridge (~ 1.2ohm coil) on a vape pen at 2.7v. The juice was 1.5 parts DMT, 0.45 parts citric acid, 1 part PG, by weight.

Our thoughts:
- It hits harder than a freebase juice with similar potency (1.5 DMT : 1 PG). Even if this one also has citric acid, so it's a bit more dilluted by volume.
- The come up seemed a little longer. The duration felt a little longer too. Maybe it takes more time for the lungs to absorb the citrate dmt aerosol?
- The flavour was pretty similar to freebase juice, but less intense. It had a (very faint) lemon taste together with the spice taste.
- The throat hit was similar. My friend said it's harsher than freebase, I thought it was less harsh. So it's probably pretty similar.

Today, I woke up with a heavy heartburn. I'm not sure if the citrate dmt juice caused it, or if it was my very unhealthy dinner. I would bet it was the dinner.

I used food grade citric acid to make the juice, and I'm a bit concerned it wasn't the right move. The label says its pure citric acid monohydrate, but It took a while to dissolve properly, and now I'm wondering if I didn't use the correct stuff. IMO, the citrate juice was better than the freebase juice, but only by a small margin. People in here swear by the benefits of the citrate conversion, so I'm wondering If maybe my acid wasn't correct for this application.

Anyways, I'll keep experimenting.
 
I can really relate to the delayed onset. Even without harmalas it seems to creep up as opposed to hit like BAM like the freebase juice.

I find it remarkably smoother, so not sure what's happening there for your friend. Like undeniably smooth, I barely smoke so my lungs get trashed by freebase juice.

You also use a more concentrated pg to dmt than I could (1:2 dmt to pg). How'd you get the PG to accept the citric acid? It wouldn't do it for me unless I added PG, I also use vape pens and my country has temporarily made getting a new vape impractical.
 
Animistic said:
You also use a more concentrated pg to dmt than I could (1:2 dmt to pg). How'd you get the PG to accept the citric acid? It wouldn't do it for me unless I added PG, I also use vape pens and my country has temporarily made getting a new vape impractical.
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Honestly I might be wrong about the amounts. I made this particular batch of juice around 2-3 months ago, and I remember using 0.3parts of CA per part of DMT. But I might have used 0.3 parts of CA per 1.5 parts of DMT.
The citric acid was difficult to dissolve. At first I was aiming for a 2:1 juice, but I ended up using a little bit more PG so the excess citric acid could dissolve, and my concentration dropped to 1.5:1.

My friend is a non-smoker, so he might have been more sensible than I am. He said this liquid feels "heavier", that it releases more vapour per hit. Maybe the citrate juice is heating up to aerosol form quicker than the freebase juice?. It wasn't harsh by any means, but It wasn't as smooth as lots of you people say it is.

On the potency of the juice. Are you using carts or sub ohm tanks?. Sub ohm tanks require a lower concentration, because they use more liquid per hit. For my cart, this (1.5:1) seems to be more efficient than freebase juice at the same concentration. Next time I'll probably drop the concentration to 1:1 and try again.
 
New to making DMT carts but very experienced in making shatter and live resin carts and I have a curious question,
Has anyone ever tried using terpenes to flavour your DMT carts and how did it go?
 
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