Do Psychedelics Make Prophets?

[Nathanial.Dread]

Apologies if this is too incoherent: I'm trying to put words on something I don't really have words for.

In the aftermath of a recent high-dose psilocybin trip, I've been thinking a lot about prophets, and what they mean both for the individual and the community they are part of.

I won't define prophet in terms of this discussion (although for me personally, 'prophet' is roughly synonymous with 'Buddha.'), but I have been wondering if psychedelics make prophets.
Whether you buy it or not, I'm sure we've all head the theory that John Of Patos was tripping when he had the visions relayed in Revelations, for example.

If they do make prophets, does that make us prophets? Or does thinking of yourself in prophetic terms after a trip just mean that psychosis is setting in?

Does it matter?

Despite many hours meditating on this, I don't really have an eloquent answer to this, just my own feelings. I feel like, through some very spiritual psychedelic experiences, I understand what it means to be a prophet and I certainly try and bring the positive things I have learned back to my community, so I suppose in a sense that makes me a prophet.
But maybe I'm crazy. I haven't had the guts to tell anyone I feel that way, but I definitely understand how that might be construed as psychedelic megalomania, and maybe it is.

I'm not the only one with some powerful vision of 'truth,' though. Far from it.
I know lots of people very passionate about all sorts of issues, who spread them with the same passion with which I try to spread peace and ego-dissolution, so maybe we're all just a lot of very small, kind of crazy, prophets all running around prophesying at each other.
I kind of like that.

Blessings
~ND

 

[Hyperspace Fool]

Heheheeh... nothing wrong with a bit of psychedelic megalomania IMHO.

You gotta watch yourself and not lose touch with your current actual state and level of achievement. Thing about psychs is that they can kind of show you what might lie in store for you down the road, but we shouldn't mistake that for our current level.

That is how people get lost and wind up tripping way too much... to chase and hold that elusive feeling of transcendence, enlightenment or prophesy.

I always saw traditional psychs as a kind of metaphysical "coming attractions." They show you the most flashy bits from some films you could see, but to actually watch the movie is much longer and more involved... more effort, but at least you understand the film afterwards. (read: doing the sober work) Coming attractions often leave you more confused than before you saw them... you might not even really know if you want to see that film or not.

DMT and aya are somewhat more than coming attactions, but still are not actually indicative of your personal achievement. IMO Heheheh.

As someone who believes that people can and do achieve rather lofty states, and that if you really read the books about prophets, saints, boddhisatvas and masters... you will find that the trip reports we psychonauts bring back are often even more powerful and profound. Ezekiel's wheels within wheels and angelic visions have nothing on my journeys.

But again. One has to be rather careful here. It is far to easy to overlook your shortcomings and weaknesses and get caught up in somewhat delusional self-aggrandizement. To be a prophet or a buddha is a lot more than just preaching at people. In fact, that has little or nothing to do with it. (otherwise tons of wide-eyed evangelists would be prophets)

In the Kabbalah, there is a tradition that Shem (one of Noah's sons) set up a school for teaching prophesy with his grandson Ever. The idea is that being a prophet is not only teachable, but that a large number of people can achieve it. Most of what it entailed was learning how to talk to angels, have visions, remember them... to know when you have deja vu where you saw the scene before, and who showed it to you etc. All stuff that can certainly come with entheogen use.

So, who knows? Probably best not to put such loaded labels on it, though. It tends to rub people the wrong way.

8)

 

[hug46]

Do Psychedelics Make a Prophet?

No. The moment you start thinking that you are a prophet, you are donald ducked.

 

[Global]

Look, a lot of people will get touchy when you start throwing the word "prophet" around, but I think it's really a matter of semantics. People think of what it means to be a prophet in different ways. I think that we are prophetic in the sense that we can have spiritual, sacred experiences that are for all intents and purposes off limits to the general public, and then come back from those experiences relaying the visions and/or messages/lessons/information ascertained in the visions that can create an impact of a spiritual nature (though not to the same degree as the "primary source" or "prophet" or whatever you wanna call it :lol: ) and so in that sense, when we act accordingly, especially with the mystical unity kinds of experiences, I think that is in a sense prophetic. Again, it's gonna be a matter of getting twist-tied in the whole semantics of what one person thinks a prophet is over another person's image.

dictionary.com offers 5 basic definitions for the term "prophet" and I think in the nature of being fair, we should examine each of the definitions.

1.
a person who speaks for God or a deity, or by divine inspiration.

Whether or not we're actually communicating with God or not, it can during some intense breakthroughs seem like it. I have spoken on behalf of it in terms of describing it (the godhead) as best I can to the community. Whether it's the "God Almighty" or some lesser deity or just an illusion of a massively powerful entity of grandeur and love, it comes across as a divine soul-touching experience, and I think could be considered divine inspiration. If these experiences affect my music and artwork and other forms of expression, then perhaps this should qualify in a way as well.

2.
a.
a person chosen to speak for God and to guide the people of Israel: Moses was the greatest of Old Testament prophets.
b.
( often initial capital letter ) one of the Major or Minor Prophets.
c.
one of a band of ecstatic visionaries claiming divine inspiration and, according to popular belief, possessing magical powers.
d.
a person who practices divination.

a. clearly we do not qualify as Old Testament prophets...though Eliyahu might have disagreed if he was still around :d
b. we do not seem to qualify for this either
c. I think we fit the "ecstatic visionary" bill. For those who believe DMT to have healing powers, or for being connected into the seemingly timeless energy systems that have many overlapping qualities with qi and other names that this probably same-similar energy has gotten over the years. I don't wanna sound too megalomaniacal with this one, but it could perhaps be true for some here.
d. not sure how they're using the term divination here.

3.
one of a class of persons in the early church, next in order after the apostles, recognized as inspired to utter special revelations and predictions. 1 Cor. 12:28.
4.
the Prophet, Muhammad, the founder of Islam.

We clearly cannot qualify under this definition because of the extreme specificity of both time and people.

5.
a person regarded as, or claiming to be, an inspired teacher or leader.

DMT experiences can certainly be inspiring, and the nature of relaying the experiences is a form of teaching. We may be right, or we may be wrong in regards to our interpretations of the messages/lessons/details that we bring back with us, but we essentially help teach each other as we stumble and bumble our way through unknown territory. If you wanna call it us "prophets" or "pioneers" or "psychonauts" or whatever you want...we can be any of those things, but it depends on semantics and how you choose to define certain words. Language can end up being a real beast and cause some mass miscommunication when you have a group of people arguing over completely different things and thinking they are talking about the same thing the whole time cause the words they're using are the same. :roll:

 

[Jin]

Do Psychedelics Make Prophets?

the right question to be asking is - do prophets make psychadelics :twisted: :lol:

Despite many hours meditating on this, I don't really have an eloquent answer to this, just my own feelings

i think the word you're looking for is not "meditation" , its "contemplation" ,
as meditation does not provide any answers , only the ever unfolding experience of NOW

only contemplation can provide answers , yet not my cup of tea

 

[Global]

Do Psychedelics Make Prophets?

the right question to be asking is - do prophets make psychadelics :twisted: :lol:

Despite many hours meditating on this, I don't really have an eloquent answer to this, just my own feelings

i think the word you're looking for is not "meditation" , its "contemplation" ,
as meditation does not provide any answers , only the ever unfolding experience of NOW

only contemplation can provide answers , yet not my cup of tea

good ole semantics getting in the way again

 

[Jin]

yessssssssssssssssssssss:grin:

 

[moniker]

But again. One has to be rather careful here. It is far to easy to overlook your shortcomings and weaknesses and get caught up in somewhat delusional self-aggrandizement. To be a prophet or a buddha is a lot more than just preaching at people. In fact, that has little or nothing to do with it. (otherwise tons of wide-eyed evangelists would be prophets)

In the Kabbalah, there is a tradition that Shem (one of Noah's sons) set up a school for teaching prophesy with his grandson Ever. The idea is that being a prophet is not only teachable, but that a large number of people can achieve it. Most of what it entailed was learning how to talk to angels, have visions, remember them... to know when you have deja vu where you saw the scene before, and who showed it to you etc. All stuff that can certainly come with entheogen use.
8)

H.F great post,
I could not have said it better myself. The only thing I would add is that I personally agree with the theory that the archetype Moshe(moses)used formahuasca...
which to me would explain why Acacia wood is emphasized so much in the Old Testament.

 

[hug46]

which to me would explain why Acacia wood is emphasized so much in the Old Testament.

If all the old school prophets were doing acacia bark back in the day, then we have to explore the possibility that they were not really prophets at all but just out of their boxes on drugs. They were just relaying their trip reports, very much like people do on this forum. If this was the case then i would have to renege my claim that psychedelics don"t make you a prophet.

Look, a lot of people will get touchy when you start throwing the word "prophet" around,

Guilty as charged...

[YOUTUBE]

 

[oilman]

Prophesy, to me, is a person speaking his personal experience of a deep, other-worldly truth. This could come about in a variety of ways. Perhaps it's drug related, perhaps it isn't. The semantics always throw people for a loop.

In the Old Testament, the prophets spoke from the heart, and they spoke in parables, visions, poetry - whatever spoke to them at the time. Ezekiel spoke using visual imagery. Isaiah spoke primarily in poetry. Others spoke in their own ways. The question really is, does it matter? Does it matter how they were inspired if their words hold truth and power?

Eliyahu's recorded prophetic experience is as follows:

2 Then Jezebel sent a messenger unto Elijah, saying, So let the gods do to me, and more also, if I make not thy life as the life of one of them by to morrow about this time.

3 And when he saw that, he arose, and went for his life, and came to Beer-sheba, which belongeth to Judah, and left his servant there.

4 ¶But he himself went a day’s journey into the wilderness, and came and sat down under a a juniper tree: and he requested for himself that he might die; and said, It is enough; now, O Lord, take away my life; for I am not better than my fathers.

5 And as he lay and slept under a juniper tree, behold, then an angel touched him, and said unto him, Arise and eat.

6 And he looked, and, behold, there was a cake baken on the coals, and a cruse of water at his head. And he did eat and drink, and laid him down again.

7 And the angel of the Lord came again the second time, and touched him, and said, Arise and eat; because the journey is too great for thee.

8 And he arose, and did eat and drink, and went in the strength of that meat forty days and forty nights unto Horeb the mount of God.

9 ¶And he came thither unto a cave, and lodged there; and, behold, the word of the Lord came to him, and he said unto him, What doest thou here, Elijah?

10 And he said, I have been very jealous for the Lord God of hosts: for the children of Israel have forsaken thy covenant, thrown down thine altars, and slain thy prophets with the sword; and I, even I only, am left; and they seek my life, to take it away.

11 And he said, Go forth, and stand upon the mount before the Lord. And, behold, the Lord passed by, and a great and strong wind rent the mountains, and brake in pieces the rocks before the Lord; but the Lord was not in the wind: and after the wind an earthquake; but the Lord was not in the earthquake:

12 And after the earthquake a fire; but the Lord was not in the fire: and after the fire a still, small voice.

13 And it was so, when Elijah heard it, that he wrapped his face in his mantle, and went out, and stood in the entering in of the cave. And, behold, there came a voice unto him, and said, What doest thou here, Elijah? (I Kings Chapter 19 )

Anyone who does up against adversity, who seeks higher powers with pure intentions, and listens for the still, small voice and pays it heed - this individual, in my opinion, is a prophet, regardless of other mitigating factors.

 

[vineseeker]

Do Psychedelics Make a Prophet?

No. The moment you start thinking that you are a prophet, you are donald ducked.

:lol:

vision of 'truth,'

there is no vision of truth there is only truth and that one surrounds you everyday.
I saw it in a water bottle yesterday bro!

 

[hug46]

Anyone who does up against adversity, who seeks higher powers with pure intentions, and listens for the still, small voice and pays it heed - this individual, in my opinion, is a prophet, regardless of other mitigating factors.

That comment may curb any future rants i have on the subject of prophets.

there is no vision of truth there is only truth and that one surrounds you everyday.
I saw it in a water bottle yesterday bro! Razz

I agree with this. Contemplating the wondorous truth in what are generally perceived as mundane things or people can also liven up an otherwise dull day (unless you are at work, then we don"t have the luxury of mooning about and it"s all hands to the pumps.)