Dosage

[DeltaSpice]

Hi, sorry for asking questions that have probably been asked a million times before but I'm still not 100% sure on dosage of pharmahuasca and other details. I've read numerous threads.
Next weekend me and a friend will be out in nature trying Pharma for the first time.
Probably trying to get some thing rite first time is asking a bit much.

I have Rue Alk and Vine Alks but I'm all about the Vine at the moment , smoking it regular and I've been dosing myself with yellow vine Alks in capsules to get a feel for eating it.
The vine Alks I have seem potent to me, 100mg smoked gets me stoned so to speak.
Today I took a capsule with 120mg vine Alks, knocked back with a glass of white tea.
Its made me feel sleepy and maybe light headed. I know the standard recommended amount is 200mg min.
So should I just do 200mg with 30mg spice in capsules taken half hour apart with water? Maybe on an empty stomach?
Considering I don't want to be hurled into hyperspace for 4 hours because I'll be out in the countryside I still need my faculties to an extent.
Any advise would be welcome.
Thanks ..

 

[Jees]

30 is like an average in 1 cuppa aya, so it could go any way, and have given me ranging from little dull to very deep. The modest 200 alks will very likely steer it in modest ways, but you never know for sure with these things.

 

[DeltaSpice]

30 is like an average in 1 cuppa aya, so it could go any way, and have given me ranging from little dull to very deep. The modest 200 alks will very likely steer it in modest ways, but you never know for sure with these things.

Do you think I should go with 250mg.
or instead go 35-40mg on the spice or both?
Many thanks

 

[chocobeastie]

30mg will not do jack for most people, just like the Ayahuasca that was tested way back when will not do jack for most people either.

Try starting at 50-60mg. For most that will not be enough. Most will need 80-120mg at least. Some will need 200mg.

 

[universecannon]

On a truly psychedelic dose of harmalas, even 30mg of DMT can be a heavy trip for many people including myself. If it's just enough to begin to activate the DMT then obviously people will need more.

This is why it is somewhat pointless to talk about the amount of DMT in pharma without talking about the amount of harmalas. And it varies so much person to person.

 

[DeltaSpice]

Hmmm.... ok I will do 250mg yellow Caapi Alks, 45mg Delta Mike Tango and I will have changa to hand anyway ..Thinking about it I can take with me 2 x 30mg spice and 2 x 50mg spice, so if the Harmalas kick in hard we can do the 30's otherwise we can take the 50's or if the world is gonna end we can take 80mg
Cheers.

(The problem is I've 500mg of yellow Alks left (enough for me and my bud)until I do another extraction so I cant test to see to see my tolerance.
I have plenty of black and red and Cielo nearly dried but my first pharma has to be with yellow.)

 

[Jees]

I would first solid the maoi section before upping the light.
Light could be broken down if not deep maoi was reached, a spoiling sort of.
I think 400 vine alks + 30 light will be deeper than 250 vine alks + 45 light.
These are my estimations only and I could be wrong because I have no idea how powerful your alks are in relation to maoi, and other factors at play.
But if you have only 500 vine alks for two, go for it and let us know please.

 

[DeltaSpice]

I would first solid the maoi section before upping the light.
Light could be broken down if not deep maoi was reached, a spoiling sort of.
I think 400 vine alks + 30 light will be deeper than 250 vine alks + 45 light.
These are my estimations only and I could be wrong because I have no idea how powerful your alks are in relation to maoi, and other factors at play.
But if you have only 500 vine alks for two, go for it and let us know please.

Will do. Thanks for your advise and the others.
Now it feels like a team sport :thumb_up:

 

[DeltaSpice]

Just a follow up ..
Me and my mate found ourselves in a nature reserve deep in the woods.
We took our 250mg Caapi Harmala and waited 45 mins.
I came on super tired and couldn't stop yawning , I could feel the Harmalas, we both felt a little alteration in our states .
So we did the light, 30mg crystals.
We gave it about half an hour and it was obvious that our dosage was too low.
I got out the Changa zoots. This stuff is the most powerful changa I've ever made, Black Caapi Vine Alks with spice enhanced onto Tynanthus Panurensis vine.
A few hits on that and with the Harmala already inside us gave us extra long effects.
Eventually we left, made our way to a village and got a taxi back to our B&B to get ready for the gig later that night.
Sitting in the cab I could feel that I was not normal , it was a pleasant feeling that reassured me in the fact that pharma is the way to go.
My friend had some slight balance issues so he was also slightly effected.
We had a good evening anyway, a gig, 2 pubs and 2 nightclubs saw to that.
I'm not a night club/pub type person but I do like to see what's what now n then.

In the meantime I now have untold yellow Caapi Alks to work with and find the correct dosage.
In 2 weeks we will hit an amazing hill overlooking forests and get the rite dosage inside us.
I feel blessed

 

[Jees]

It was expected for the 250 to be on the shallow side, but it was good to go with it, to see how that worked out. It confirms my experiences too. No doubt that it is therapeutic, for that purpose it suits, yet you we're in for something more and nice that you got the chance to do that. :thumb_up:

 

[DeltaSpice]

Progression.
Today I took 350mg vine, 45 mins later I took 35mg spice.(on an empty stomach)
I was sun bathing ,listening to music, making phone calls, an hour passed and I thought that nothing was gonna happen so I came indoors.
Had a shower and started to play some music. I just knew then I had to lay down as it was starting to hit me.
I can describe the feeling I had as a kind of internal embrace . The music was excellent and I had a slight smile on my face.
I just felt excellent and warm .
There was no hyperspace ,just some deep thoughts.
I'm still no 100% back to normal yet.
Next time the dosage will be 400 + 45 .

 

[Jees]

Let's call this a healthy example of building up :thumb_up:

I've never really hit into hyperspace on (even a heavy) pharma, dipping toes yes.
The gravity of pharma, to me, lies in another region than hyperspace, it only borders it with a small overlap, a noticing, a confirming peep. Ymmv.

 

[DeltaSpice]

Let's call this a healthy example of building up :thumb_up:

I've never really hit into hyperspace on (even a heavy) pharma, dipping toes yes.
The gravity of pharma, to me, lies in another region than hyperspace, it only borders it with a small overlap, a noticing, a confirming peep. Ymmv.

I see. I was kind of expecting 4 hours worth of Changa in a capsule.
It is defiantly a deeper experience compared to smoking. Today (the day after) I've been a bit more thoughtful or what I mean is that you don't just do pharma , it wears off and your done.
My teeth feel sensitive also, as if I've been doing E's or coke. That is the only negative I can come up with.
I normally do Changa daily and vine joints plus Ha-pay (rape' ) but I think ill forgo everything for a week or two.
I should show a bit more respect for these things and do them less often.
8)

 

[chocobeastie]

Nobody is taking less than 30mg of DMT ever.

Nobody is starting at 10mg or 20mg or 25mg.

30mg can only be described as a starting point, that for most people will not do anything.

Please someone write up their "trip report" with 30mg as I have difficulty believing this does anything for anyone, unless they are ultra sensitive or their tolerance for this state is very low. (i.e. they are the exception, not the rule)

I have never MET anyone who needed such a light dose as 30mg of DMT. And I'm talking about using 3-5g's of Syrian Rue (or 150-250mg pure Harmine, not harmalas which generally contain other impurities)

Most here have only themselves as a reference point, whereas, I'm posting having the references and reports from many hundreds of people.

 

[○]

On a truly psychedelic dose of harmalas, even 30mg of DMT can be a heavy trip for many people including myself. If it's just enough to begin to activate the DMT then obviously people will need more.

This is why it is somewhat pointless to talk about the amount of DMT in pharma without talking about the amount of harmalas. And it varies so much person to person.

Yup, if I take my usual dosage of freebase harmalas (220-250mg), then typically 90mg of DMT will floor me. Although if I take 200mg freebase harmalas, then 70mg of DMT will floor me. That's the range I usually stay within.

Although, i've taken 300-320mg of freebase harmalas before (heavy ataxia, heavy purging, vision is awash in heavy tracers/reality splitting) and with that dose of harmalas - 40mg of DMT will floor me.

 

[jamie]

assuming 2% yields of most bark, I need 40mg for any kind of real psychedelic activity to be present, and often I will drink 4g of rootbark..so 80mg of DMT. At that dose I am laid out on the floor...unless I have taken a very large dose of harmalas, and then just 2 grams or 40mg has been extremely potent a couple times.

 

[The Traveler]

Most here have only themselves as a reference point, whereas, I'm posting having the references and reports from many hundreds of people.

Most here have the other DMT-Nexus members as a reference point. On the DMT-Nexus we currently have more than 5.500 topics about experiences with quite a few about pharmahuasca.

And good to know you are such a king with the "references and reports from many hundreds of people". :?:


Kind regards,

The Traveler

 

[DeltaSpice]

On a truly psychedelic dose of harmalas, even 30mg of DMT can be a heavy trip for many people including myself. If it's just enough to begin to activate the DMT then obviously people will need more.

This is why it is somewhat pointless to talk about the amount of DMT in pharma without talking about the amount of harmalas. And it varies so much person to person.

Yup, if I take my usual dosage of freebase harmalas (220-250mg), then typically 90mg of DMT will floor me. Although if I take 200mg freebase harmalas, then 70mg of DMT will floor me. That's the range I usually stay within.

Although, i've taken 300-320mg of freebase harmalas before (heavy ataxia, heavy purging, vision is awash in heavy tracers/reality splitting) and with that dose of harmalas - 40mg of DMT will floor me.

Are you talking about Rue or Vine ?
If I recall, less Rue Harmalas is needed compared to Vine.

 

[chocobeastie]

assuming 2% yields of most bark

That's a big assumption right there. Bark can be anywhere from 0.5% to 1.5%. 2% is awfully strong, although of course it can be higher in DMT content than that too.

People in circles who drink mimosa hostilis bark since the mid 90's, have traditionally looked to dose between 10-15g. 12.5g is considered pretty standard.

You can see that on forums.ayahuasca.com if you read back over the last decade or so.

Most Mimosa Hostilis seems to be around 1% or so, which means 100-150mg is what MOST people are doing assuming they are taking that many grams of bark, and even more than that if the bark is 1.5%-2%, which I think is much less common and may be the bark coming from "premiun" vendors.

I need 40mg for any kind of real psychedelic activity to be present, and often I will drink 4g of rootbark..so 80mg of DMT. At that dose I am laid out on the floor...unless I have taken a very large dose of harmalas, and then just 2 grams or 40mg has been extremely potent a couple times.

Your root bark could be 3%. You never really know how much DMT you are taking unless you have tested the batch.

Also, the point is, you *should* be floored. 70-80mg will floor me, but it is still not getting to the really interesting places you can go with this material.

Most here have the other DMT-Nexus members as a reference point. On the DMT-Nexus we currently have more than 5.500 topics about experiences with quite a few about pharmahuasca.

Yes, and I'm wondering why some people are continuing to propose low DMT dosages as some sort of standard when I know that is not the case.

Like I said, it is also duly noted that a lot of people facilitating ayahuasca brews are largely giving people what I would consider relatively light brews.

And good to know you are such a king with the "references and reports from many hundreds of people". :?:

This isn't a competition. I'm just trying to share knowledge here and state where this knowledge has come from in the hope people take notice.

btw, I have been posting on this pharmahuasca forum for many years communicating this same message.

Always some newbie comes on expecting 30mg to blow their mind and it almost never does ANYTHING.

My message is simple, 30mg aint going to do pretty much anything.

Have a look at the poll,

Thread for Oral Dosage in Pharmahuasca w/ DMT Dosage Poll - Pharmahuasca - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus

46% of people say that they prefer 100mg or more.

Very many experienced people will do 250mg no problem. However, I have become more sensitive over the years, and 100mg is strong enough for me these days.

 

[jamie]

"That's a big assumption right there. Bark can be anywhere from 0.5% to 1.5%. 2% is awfully strong, although of course it can be higher in DMT content than that too"

It's not that big of an assumption really..considering I KNOW my bark is around 2%