Double Slit Experiment, and quantum theory

[realitycheck123]

So, when being observed atoms, behave differently.
So if you do not observe them they are in their natural state, When we observe their behaviour
they act different.
How the heck can this happen? Nobel prize for answer. x

 

[brokenChild]

their natural state, according to my understanding of quantum theory and mechanics, is actually full expression of all possible quantum states

When we "observe" them, we collapse the quantum possibility function into one specific, and direct reality... or, in other words, one particular expression of all it's potential possibilities.

That's my basic understanding, studied physics in college for a few years.

Also important to note that the atom actually functions as both; a particle and a wave... so the expression of the singularity is dualistic in nature. I'm not sure there's a direct explanation from the physics society of that one, I think that's simply an integral part of the nature of its expression; in other terms just the way it is.

 

[realitycheck123]

But, and there is a GIANT but here.
How can a single atom or multiple atoms realise the arey being observed?
There is always cause and effect, so how is the cause of observation, effecting the atoms behaviour?
Now I am no scientist, but this is certainly a glitch in the fabric.

 

[brokenChild]

Who said that that which is observed, is ever separate from the observer?

According to Einstein, E=MC^2, so essentially mass=energy=mass=energy. In other words, everything is just different forms of energy on various planes of expression. That said, maybe consciousness and energy are intrinsically linked, and YOU, the observer, in a way collapse the wave function to the particular expression that you choose out of all of the limitless and possible potentials.

If you haven't already, you should go on youtube and watch "what the bleep do we know"

Mayhaps we are all creators of our own realities :lol: :thumb_up:

 

[Du57mi73]

I think that the act of observation doesn't in itself cause the collapsing, but in actuallity our senses can only percieve one possible collapsed form. That still doesn't sound right though.

 

[brokenChild]

actually according to quantum mechanics the act of observation does indeed cause the collapse; it's intrinsic

This does make me wonder tho if there is any way to observe such that all possibilities still exist in their full potential

 

[arcologist]

There is no way, at least as far as current scientific knowledge is concerned, to observe a particle without affecting it. On the most fundamental level, particles like electrons are really represented as a probability distribution function representing the probability that a particle exists at any given point in space. In order to observe a particle on the quantum level, you have to somehow 'see' it, either by interacting with it via light or the electromagnetic force (really the same thing). Both of these will cause the probability distribution to be collapsed to a single point, at the expense of being able to determine either the electron's momentum or position, depending on what you are measuring (i.e. Heisenberg uncertainty principle).

However, many so-called pseudo-scientists like Deepak Chopra will try to apply this behavior to larger groups of atoms (aka people), which is entirely false and shows a misunderstanding of the processes at work. While these processes take place any time two quantum particles interact anywhere, the net effect when averaged out over the trillions of atoms in a human being is zero.

 

[brokenChild]

I think that the act of observation doesn't in itself cause the collapsing, but in actuallity our senses can only percieve one possible collapsed form. That still doesn't sound right though.

Maybe this is where choice is linked to expression

 

[thecrystalkid]

maybe they sense that they're being observed?

read some interesting ideas in the book "occult chemistry", where they claimed to view actual atoms, slowing them down with their mind, so they could draw and document their appearence. free ebook The Project Gutenberg eBook of Occult Chemistry, by Annie Besant and Charles W. Leadbeater

they claimed to extend what they called their anjic micro-scope from their third eye and shrink their perception down in gradations at will. supposedly its also possible to expand your perception to view say the solar system or unverse and descibe the locations of star systems or planets accurately.

Sodium (supposedly)

whilst opening a bottle of nitrous oxide (is that possible? this from memory so might have the wrong compound but it contained oxygen bound to another element) and registered the oxygen's elation as it was freed from its chemical binding. but of course this is conjecture.

steven m philips, physicist, claimed the results published by the occultist in the early 20th century were consonant with the latest string theory, and had in them discoveries that were in total awarded 5 nobel prizes. occult chemistry has also been claimed to be debunked. leadbeater, the viewer, even claimed to have used a triton, which is supposedly an elemental sea "spirit", to locate a very rare element that he knew would be in the sea, and then supposedly drew it. he also claimed the ajnic microscope could be extended like a tube for a large distance, with alot more effort, so he could view rare elements in a museum or somewhere, can't remember. all conjecture.

i think its possible that viewing the atomic world sometimes accounts for some of the visuals in shroom trips.

 

[Randomness]

You have to interact with the atom to observe it. This interaction changes it's state.

Think of it like this - I observe you by prodding you with a stick. Being prodded with a stick is going to influence your behaviour and you are no longer in your natural state.

 

[valentino]

How the heck can this happen?

well, it almost seems as if science has just decided to simply accept that the phenomenon exists and just move on...i don't think they know where to begin explaining it...and they're probably afraid of the ramifications, if they did...

equally as mind-bending is the phenomenon of entanglement...and, when you consider that the accepted theory is that all of the universe began as a singularity, entanglement would mean that we are all much more intimately connected than many of us might feel comfortable admitting

 

[Infundibulum]

As pretty much everyone said, there is no magic here (and most certainly no nobel prizes to be allocated).

You have to interact with the atom to observe it. This interaction changes it's state.

Exactly - and by extension to observe anything you have to interact with it somehow. It is fundamental in its understanding that by studying a system you change the system. If I stick a thermometer to find out the temperature of the water I will not get the right answer; the mere act of sticking the thermometer in the water will change the initial temperature of the water and will give me an incorrect reading. Granted, a negligible error for practical reasons in this simple experiment, but with powerful implications when extended in the complex world of quantum mechanics.

The "observation" part of those who describe the double slit experiment has been so much of a pain because what it implies (i.e. drastic interference to the system you observe) just goes over the head of the average layman. And thus all the misinterpretations start.

 

[brokenChild]

^^Sure, but there is still a creative aspect from potentiality to actuality of a certain thought, idea, or expression (or imagination, even)

[YOUTUBE]

So, how would you just write off the fact that consciousness, even thought, is indeed somehow intrinsically linked to matter in expression?

 

[Ryusaki]

...
they claimed to extend what they called their anjic micro-scope from their third eye and shrink their perception down in gradations at will. supposedly its also possible to expand your perception to view say the solar system or unverse and descibe the locations of star systems or planets accurately.

:surprised
Well, i did this once when on a massive shroom trip. I saw planets and alien star systems and then i somehow shrunk into this atomic particle view. I saw strange pulsating things (like the image) arranged in an endless matrix. I saw DNA synthesis as well.
All while my friend was turning into an O2 atom and travelled through his lung into his bloodstream.
Very powerful experience, stronger than anything else i had before.
Same session i met my avatar.

I believe that it is indeed possible to collapse the wave function with the consciousness alone (and withouth direct physical interaction). Somehow things change if you change your thinking. Since drinking Ayahuasca i have so much telepathy going on in my life its not even funny anymore. I just take them with a straight face and go on.

 

[brokenChild]

We live in succession, in division, in parts, in particles. Meantime within us is the soul of the whole; the wise silence; the universal beauty; to which every part and particle is equally related; the eternal ONE. And this deep power in which we exist and whose beatitude is all accessible to us, is not only self-sufficing and perfect in every hour, but the act of seeing and the thing seen, the seer and the spectacle, the subject and the object, are one.

- RALPH WALDO EMERSON

 

[thecrystalkid]

:surprised
Well, i did this once when on a massive shroom trip.

always liked that avatar, very cool you met and drew him. i think the perception expansion could explain how some cultures had such accurate info and understanding of stars. the egyptian head dresses with the serpent coming out of the 3rd eye could be construed as meaning they had and knew of such capacities.

 

[realitycheck123]

Well Thanks for all the great replies, some really interesting stuff here.

 

[Parshvik Chintan]

good explanation of double slit:
[YOUTUBE]

plausible (but NOT proven!!) explanation of what is going on:
[YOUTUBE]

this video helps get a better understanding of wave function collapse to the layman (if a layman's understanding of wave function collapse is possible )
[YOUTUBE]

which is to say the measuring of the electron's physical location collapses its wave function, turning it from a super-positioned function of probability waves into a particle (Essentially).

also, what arcologist and InMotion said.

also also, if you have not heard the alan watts bit on prickles and goo, i highly recommend watching it, as it fits this context very well.

 

[upload]

We live in succession, in division, in parts, in particles. Meantime within us is the soul of the whole; the wise silence; the universal beauty; to which every part and particle is equally related; the eternal ONE. And this deep power in which we exist and whose beatitude is all accessible to us, is not only self-sufficing and perfect in every hour, but the act of seeing and the thing seen, the seer and the spectacle, the subject and the object, are one.

- RALPH WALDO EMERSON

wow. THIS! I need to read more RWE...

 

[thecrystalkid]

i like some of what this guy says. he claims to have the double slit experiment understood but its too techy for me to understand. so in case its worthy to another > http://www.cheniere.org/books/excalibur/2slit.htm