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ehum.....DMT and the Pineal.

Migrated topic.
I reckon it would shut up a lot of the critique on Rick Strassman's work

Yay for science!

(btw, haha. Benzyme. Love ur humorous approach)

Too bad i don't understand much of a word here ^_^
 
I am also interested to see the paper!

In a way it makes sense that there is dmt in the pineal, if there are small amounts of dmt in the blood then there will practically be dmt in some amount in all of the body tissues to variable extents. The interesting info would be to see how much dmt the pineal accumulates when compared to other tissues, that would really put some perspective to the study. And yeah, as benzyme said, presence of dmt in a tissue is different from production of dmt in said tissue.
 
benzyme said:
I'm interested in seeing that paper when it's published. I'm thinking they used some ELIZA-based assay, definitely the way to go.
when they finally (if ever) show in situ production in the pineal gland, I'll eat my hat with sriracha sauce.
Click to expand...

Personally I hope it is found to be produced in the pineal for one reason and one reason only. I'd like to see all the rude naysayers eat their words. It would just be poetic justice if Rogan ended up being right and all the vile (yes I've seen vile people weigh in) slamming him and strassman ended up looking like complete tools.

Personally benzyme I see no reason to eat your hat with sriracha sauce. Just let go of the view you have about it not possibly being synthesized there and open your mind to whatever the data eventually say's. There is no reason what so ever to form a belief about this. It is either produced there or it's not. It's not like ANY human has absolute knowledge of anything. We learn knew shit ever day. So maybe on first pass mRNA wasn't found for the methylating enzymes...maybe a new assay will indeed show it was found...etc etc.

Science rocks not because it's alway's right, but because it's often wrong and can acknowledge it was wrong and get on with a correct view.

BTW I've we are keeping score I've been siding with the made in the pineal camp since the beginning. It's very clearly made in the spinal region of the CNS so I would not be surprised if it was made in the pineal, but I'd also not be surprised if it wasn't. As alway's watching the scientific paint dry is dreadfully slow at times. lol

Time will hopefully soon tell.
 
I will open my mind...to the possibility of it being produced in a rat's pineal gland.
However, humans are obviously not rodents. 😁

I want to see electropherograms/chromatograms and blots, characterizing human
pineal cell tissue-sourced DMT. Of course, there is that "ethical" dilemma scientists are faced with. :roll:

rats.

yet the "burden-of-proof" lies on the proposer of the theory, not the naysayers.
and while Rogan said "the brain pumps out heavy doses of dimethyltrypamine while you sleep"
(a ridiculous assertion, no doubt), I'm more inclined to think that central mechanisms inhibit production, favoring serotonin and melatonin as the preferential ligands. Also, since ~85% of serotonin is produced in the gut, it seems more likely that most DMT produced in the human body would be in gut epithelial cells, or neighboring tissues.
Yes, it's possible that the mechanisms exist in the pineal gland, but more probable that higher concentrations are produced in other tissues.
 
benzyme said:
I will open my mind...to the possibility of it being produced in a rat's pineal gland.
However, humans are obviously not rodents. 😁

I want to see electropherograms/chromatograms and blots, characterizing human
pineal cell tissue-sourced DMT. Of course, there is that "ethical" dilemma scientists are faced with. :roll:

rats.

yet the "burden-of-proof" lies on the proposer of the theory, not the naysayers.
Click to expand...

Why not just remain open to it being found in humans as well?
It sounds like from your post you've determined what the answer is and you've even set expectations for an experiment that will obviously never be run in order to 'prove' it to you. I guess what I'm most curious about is why the defensive stance on this? So WHAT if it is produced in the pineal. It's not like it effects you or me one iota

All I'm saying is be open brother.
Right now more signs are pointing to it produced in the pineal gland than not...though that could change again.

I just don't personally see any reason to be invested in the outcome here.
It will be what it will be.

BTW If it's produced in the rat pineal are you really gonna continue to argue against the possibility of it being produced in the human pineal? If so why? Wouldn't it be more prudent to then say, well it's produced in a least one mammal's pineal so it could very likely be produced in the pineal of most mammals...remember the pineal is an ancient structure that we all share...kind like eye's. I'd be shocked if it was only moderately different from mammal to mammal.
 
I am a member of the Pineal Calcification Front, so of course I have invested interest in debunking this hooey. :d

but seriously, rat brains are not human brains, and rat physiology isn't human physiology.
granted, the two are remarkably similar. have you ever seen a rat gag? I haven't.


I used to favor the pineal gland theory, now I just don't find it as mystical as people make it out to be. all I figure is that perhaps the pineal gland produces a relatively tiny amount (because of the aforementioned preferential ligand production) with respect to peripheral tissue production.
 
A lot of people have just taken a defensive or reactionary stance against it because of all the uninformed people who claim its 100% proven to be produced there when you dream/die/NDE/etc... They get annoyed by this (rightfully so), and then over-react...and the result is that many people who respond to these claims go too far and often say conclusively that "its NOT produced there" ...instead of just humbly admitting that "we just don't know yet"


Oh well, time will tell. To me it wouldn't be surprising at all. We already know that MAOIs like pinoline etc are produced there... INMT is present.. and countless of us have had ayahuasca type experiences in the dark during meditation (which rouses the gland) without taking anything at all
 
benzyme said:
I am a member of the Pineal Calcification Front, so of course I have invested interest in debunking this hooey. :d
Click to expand...

LOL.

but seriously, rat brains are not human brains, and rat physiology isn't human physiology.
granted, the two are remarkably similar. have you ever seen a rat gag? I haven't.
Click to expand...

yeah man they are certainly different no doubt about that. But like you noted they are similar..and some parts are almost identical.

I used to favor the pineal gland theory, now I just don't find it as mystical as people make it out to be. all I figure is that perhaps the pineal gland produces a relatively tiny amount (because of the aforementioned preferential ligand production) with respect to peripheral tissue production.
Click to expand...

Mystical? What's that got to do with anything? It's either produced there or not. The 'mystical' whoo whoo people (Which I have to count myself) are irrelevant to the actual science.

I'm with universecannon here. This would not surprise me at all inspite of all the Joe Rogan's and mystical pineal lovers out there.

Good science is like a good murder mystery. And the pineal is shaping up to fit that bill well.
 
benzyme said:
when they finally (if ever) show in situ production in the pineal gland, I'll eat my hat with sriracha sauce.
Click to expand...



If such proof ever comes to light, this quote will be brought back to you...no cheating like using a hat made of bread--your regular hat.


(well, if you start wearing a bread hat all the time, and it becomes your thing, well, that's different)
 
This is exciting news!

Cottonwood research foundation article

We’re excited to announce the acceptance for publication of a paper documenting the presence of DMT in the pineal glands of live rodents. The paper will appear in the journal Biomedical Chromatography and describes experiments that took place in Dr. Jimo Borjigin’s laboratory at the University of Michigan, where samples were collected. These samples were analyzed in Dr. Steven Barker’s laboratory at Louisiana State University, using methods that funding from the Cottonwood Research Foundation helped develop.
Click to expand...
 
cool so rat pineals can be used for extraction aswell:twisted:

edit : any idea on how much yield one can get ?
 
My question is how does this relate to humans. I know we are close genetically to rats, but this doesn't directly mean that DMT is found in human pineal glands I believe. So further study is needed, but I believe this could help jump start a much needed acceleration of study about DMT in relation to humans.

Also, do all animal brains contain a pineal gland? What about insects?
 
This suggests that we might find dmt in the pineal gland. Don't know until the research is conducted.

If dmt is found in the human pineal, the next question becomes, "where is it produced?"

I've read that 95% of serotonin, in humans, is produced in the gut, the rest being produced in the brain. Please do correct me if that information is outdated. Well, dmt is found in rat pineals....and the pineal, it's the third eye man, come on :) of course the third eye is pumpin out spirit-sauce. But that's a totally nonscientific thought, right there.

Maybe we will find dmt produced in the gut and also produced somewhere in the brain as well, perhaps within the third eye, perhaps not. It is interesting to speculate....what possible role could dmt serve within the stomach, if it is produced there? Is the second brain more important than it is given credit for, so far? Or would there be some digestive role, or what?

I don't know much, just asking.
 
Well, since when are the speculations about the pineal around in the psychedelic literature? Sometime around the 50s? And it took us 60 years to find evidence in the direction by finding a psychoactive substance in the pineal gland of a mammal...
And if it is in another mammal, it is very likely also in humans, because the basic neurochemistry is pretty old and very simmilar in many aspects. Very interesting read, I'm excited reading the publication. :)

cool so rat pineals can be used for extraction aswell :twisted:

edit : any idea on how much yield one can get ?
Click to expand...

Where did you get that idea? Everyone knows that the best source for pineal extractions are fresh ones from newborn humans. 😁
 

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