Endogenous DMT using nutrients. Testable science. Should be studied.

[Transform]

Presumably, supplementing a bit of methionine wouldn't hurt either?

I'm a teeny bit concerned about the 5-hydroxylation side route (being a major pathway for tryptophan/tryptamine) and its subsequent methylations leading to formation of of mexamine and homologs up to 5-MeO-DMT, this last one presenting higher than usual risk in combination with harmalas. Would there be any simple ways of minimising the action of TPH, DDC and HIOMT to help circumvent this? And what about the converse?

 

[blig-blug]

Let's try to get some specific dosages, as I must confess I can't keep up with the thread either That could make it easier and encourage other people to try it.

It was mentioned by @Sabnock1990: that about 500mg tryptophan would be a reasonable dose.

• 500mg tryptophan
• 500ug (micrograms!) B12, to be progressively increased up to 5mg if needed
• 400 to 600ug (micrograms!) methylfolate
• full MAO-A inhibition, e.g. 200mg harmalas (or your dose and substance for full inhibition)

Is that correct? Anything else to add about timing, etc?

 

[Sabnock1990]

Presumably, supplementing a bit of methionine wouldn't hurt either?

I'm a teeny bit concerned about the 5-hydroxylation side route (being a major pathway for tryptophan/tryptamine) and its subsequent methylations leading to formation of of mexamine and homologs up to 5-MeO-DMT, this last one presenting higher than usual risk in combination with harmalas. Would there be any simple ways of minimising the action of TPH, DDC and HIOMT to help circumvent this? And what about the converse?

Yeah, Methionine should help too, although worth keeping in mind that a lot of Methionine = a lot of SAM = a lot of SAH = a lot of Homocysteine = a lot of demand on the B12 and Folate for recycling that Homocysteine back into Methionine and keeping the cycle going. So you want enough Methionine for enough SAM, but not too much that will put extra pressure on Methionine Synthase and B12/Folate, especially if one has some deficiencies it might make things a bit harder to recover, perhaps. But yeah you definitely need some dietary or perhaps supplemental Methionine.

Ime, the B6 seems to force Tryptophan's decarboxylation to Tryptamine, it feels like it does this fully/completely, like with the B6 there doesn't seem to be any Tryptophan going towards Tryptophan Hydroxylase/5-HTP synthesis, i can feel the differences between Tryptophan without B6, and Tryptophan with B6, without B6 it seems to go down it's usual metabolic route turning into 5-HTP and Niacin at the least and then like a few hours later turns into Tryptamine cerebrally, that much i can feel, but, when the B6 is taken with the Tryptophan, it's like it forces all of the Tryptophan to decarboxylate in the gut to Tryptamine and stops it from going down it's usual metabolic route of 5-Hydroxylation. Though if enough Tryptamine's were allowed to build up in the body/brain (like if MAO-A would irreversibly inhibited), we could see more Tryptamine/DMT going down the 5-Hydoxylation, 5-Methoxylation, and other routes and potentially producing 5-MT, 5-MEO-DMT and 5-HO-DMT. This is why it'd be interesting imo to try this out with an irreversible MAO-A inhibitor.

There could maybe be a theoretical risk if 5-MEO-DMT or perhaps 5-HO-DMT built up to high enough levels, though i'm not sure how that might look or how possible it might be compared to straight Tryptamine/NMT/DMT production, but theoretically, if trace amines were able to build up due to lack of MAO-A, it could give the body enough DMT to be methoxylated or hydroxylated enough to become those metabolites, and then that could have some potential risks but i haven't detected more than NMT/DMT yet personally so i don't think that's a risk at the moment. Also it's worth keeping in mind that 5-MEO-DMT (and probably 5-HO-DMT) are metabolized in the liver by CYP2D6 (as well as by MAO-A), which Harmalas potently inhibit, as such, with both CYP2D6 and MAO-A inhibited by the Harmalas, it can increase bioavailability of ingested (and endogenously synthesized) 5-MEO-DMT which can necessitate a lowering of 5-MEO-DMT dosage to account for the increase in bioavailability, then, it might be potentially safer/less risky and might be something some folks haven't factored in yet, so it's possible that 5-MEO-DMT and 5-HO-DMT could maybe be safely combined with MAO-A and CYP2D6 inhibition, so if anybody were to experiment with (or experience endogenous synthesis of) 5-MEO-DMT, i think dosage is key. Now, who knows how much 5-MEO-DMT the body might spurt out, but with the inhibition in place, i don't think the body would need much? Heck, i think we should test this out on some mice or rats or something, just keep MAO-A inhibited, maybe CYP2D6 too if possible, feed em' B6, B12, and Tryptophan and see if things build up and how they metabolize over time.

I'm not sure how to go about minimizing the activity of Tryptophan Hydroxylase or HIOMT, but i must admit it would interesting to find out if they will increase in the consistent presence of Tryptamine and DMT and how they as substrate might end up producing other trace metabolites, i think it really should be studied lol.

 

[Sabnock1990]

Let's try to get some specific dosages, as I must confess I can't keep up with the thread either That could make it easier and encourage other people to try it.

It was mentioned by @Sabnock1990: that about 500mg tryptophan would be a reasonable dose.

• 500mg tryptophan
• 500ug (micrograms!) B12, to be progressively increased up to 5mg if needed
• 400 to 600ug (micrograms!) methylfolate
• full MAO-A inhibition, e.g. 200mg harmalas (or your dose and substance for full inhibition)

Is that correct? Anything else to add about timing, etc?

Don't forget the P5P B6, anywhere from like 25mgs to 100mgs to 200mgs, idk, i'm currently in the process of trying to get my B vitamin dosages down to more usual levels compared to what i was taking, ya know, trying to find the minimum effective dosage ranges, so i don't want to suggest anything too low because that may or may not be effective and i can't yet say because i'm not trying to take Tryptamines right now lol.

But if i had to give a range for what would work for people...
Full MAO-A inhibition (200mgs of Harmalas should definitely do the trick)
500mgs of Tryptophan to me seems reasonable
500 micrograms up to 5 to 10mgs of Methylcobalamin B12 (i like 10mgs, it seems most effective generally-speaking)
25mgs up to 100 to 200mgs of P5P B6, but generally 25mgs to 100mgs should suffice

And, 400 to 600 micrograms of Methylfolate (optional, and might be needed but not sure, and too much can use up too much B12 which can be counterproductive because then more B12 would need to be taken, so maybe Folate, maybe not, i think for the most part so long as one doesn't have a Folate deficiency, B12 and B6 should be maybe all one needs)

For timing, i say take the Harmalas, and then 1 hour later take the Tryptophan+B6+B12 (with or without Folate), and it should work. Tryptophan and the B's seem to get absorbed pretty quickly and 1 hour into the Harmalas seems to be peak gut MAO-A inhibition which maximizes the oral bioactivation of Tryptamine and NMT/DMT via the gut which then goes systemic, while if one doesn't take the B6 with it then Tryptophan goes it's usual metabolic route and only turns into Tryptamine like 7 hours later and only cerebrally so B6 is crucial to be taken with it. If one is higher in CYP2D6 the timeframe might be shorter, so like 30 minutes into the Harmalas take the Tryptophan+B's, whenever oral DMT is most bioavailable for you, is when you should also take the Tryptophan+B's, it all works on the same timeframe.

And remember, B6 is necessary for this to work as the B6 forces Tryptophan's decarboxylation to Tryptamine in the gut, so you need to take B6 with the Tryptophan.

 

[Sabnock1990]

It should also be mentioned as a side-note, because to me it seems that B6 forces Tryptophan's complete decarboxylation to Tryptamine in the gut, i wanted to try it out with Phenylalanine as well, though i don't have an MAO-B inhibitor for the resulting Phenylethylamine, but i already know how i feel when i consume Phenylalanine on it's own so i'm familiar with how it feels and so without an MAO-B inhibitor if i were to force Phenylalanine's decarboxylation to Phenylethylamine then the Phenylethylamine would instantly just be inactivated by MAO-B, and sure enough that's what happened, and so taking the B6 with the Phenylalanine basically just inactivated it and once it turned into Phenylethylamine it just instantly broke down and get metabolized/excreted. Though, if one were to have an MAO-B inhibitor, they would very likely feel the Phenylethylamine and it would be activated.

So i just wanted to add that because i've gotten the impression many times before that B6 forces complete decarboxylation of Tryptophan to Tryptamine, and may not leave any Tryptophan for it's usual metabolic pathways, and have also noticed that i didn't feel much in the way of 5-HTP or Serotonin from the Tryptophan when it decarboxylates to Tryptamine first. So without the B6, one will get Serotonin, with the B6, one will get Tryptamines.

 

[Sab-Alternate]

I just searched around on here and it looks like apparently i'm not the first person to have suggested this whole thing. But as usual, people dismissed their claims, as people have dismissed mine, but i'm telling you, this stuff works, if you do it right. P5P B6, Methylcobalamin B12, Tryptophan, an hour into a dose of Harmalas, if you don't feel the NMT/DMT, take more B12, it'll provide the SAM necessary to methylate the Tryptamine into NMT and DMT, at least to some extent, as i've said. It's good to know a few others out there have thought along the same lines as i, though. I think if people don't have it work for them, they're either not taking enough P5P B6, or they're not taking enough Methylcobalamin, or potentially not getting enough Folate per day, and as i've said B12 deficiency likely plays a major role if someone doesn't feel it, they should definitely feel the Tryptamine, but methylating it to NMT and DMT requires enough SAM and you need enough B12 for that. If one takes just pure SAM or perhaps Methionine, it'll still turn to Homocysteine and need B12 (and Folate) to remethylate the Homocysteine back into Methionine for the SAM, and for Methionine to turn into SAM you need enough Magnesium and Potassium for Methionine Adenosyltransferase to convert the Methionine to SAM. If you give the body all the necessary cofactors, it'll work.

 

[bezevo]

OP interesting stuff ..

did you model your explanation after 69rons style ?

sometimes i think i'm funny

 

[universecannon]

I just searched around on here and it looks like apparently i'm not the first person to have suggested this whole thing.

Where has it been brought up before ?

I'm definitely interested, just scared to try - not to mention I don't fully understand it.

 

[TheGreenPhantom]

Seems like it's worth a try, and I've been meaning to (but keep forgetting). At worst, I'm out of a few $ on vitamins.

 

[Sab-Alternate]

OP interesting stuff ..

did you model your explanation after 69rons style ?

sometimes i think i'm funny

Lol, naw, i know people clown on him though, wonder where he's at these days, same with Tregar.

 

[Sab-Alternate]

Where has it been brought up before ?

I'm definitely interested, just scared to try - not to mention I don't fully understand it.

For example, here - Get DMT by taking MAOI + tryptophan + L-methionine = DMT in brain = trip

And here - Legal DMT(almost)

And here - Mythbusters?

This is what i've come across so far just by searching up B12 on here lol. Similar concept, except i got the process down pretty much. I wonder if there's any other posts similar to these.

Imo it goes to show, there's something to it and i'm glad to know that i'm not the first person to have thought about this, though i may be the first to actually more fully figure it out, idk.

Either way, it definitely works, it just needs to be done right, the B6 and B12 especially are vital to this, as is the Tryptophan, still undecided if Folate is needed in the mix but i think so long as one just isn't deficient in Folate, all should work as intended, B12 is by far ime more important than the Folate (and again, too much Folate can use up too much B12 and reduce the chances of Tryptamine turning into NMT/DMT), and of course the P5P B6 is necessary for the decarboxylation of Tryptophan to Tryptamine.

Ime you have no need to be afraid, i assure you nothing bad will happen, worse case scenario it just doesn't work until you get things right, certainly no risk of Serotonin Syndrome ime because as i said, taking the P5P with the Tryptophan forces it's decarboxylation to Tryptamine before it gets the chance to turn into 5-HTP (plus Folate levels control 5-HTP synthesis, ime), so the B6 forces Tryptophan down the Tryptamine metabolic route, whereas without the B6 the Tryptophan will go down it's usual metabolic route turning into 5-HTP and Niacin and such, but even then, ime, no Serotonin Syndrome risk and still turns into Tryptamine and NMT/DMT albeit approx 7 hours later and only then in the brain, whereas if the B6 is taken with the Tryptophan it forces it's complete decarboxylation to Tryptamine in the gut and the Tryptamine will become orally active and full bodied, same with the NMT and DMT. So there's nothing to fear ime.

Again though, it's pretty simple to understand. P5P B6 taken with Tryptophan decarboxylates/converts Tryptophan to Tryptamine, which with gut MAO-A inhibition becomes orally active, same as with taking exogenous NMT/DMT. Then, once Tryptamine becomes active in the system, it goes through the INMT enzyme which uses SAM to methylate the Tryptamine to NMT and DMT, and B12 is needed to recycle Homocysteine back into Methionine so Methionine can turn into SAM. And that's all there is to it. If you don't have enough B12 or SAM, you will only feel the Tryptamine, at which point if you take more B12, you will pretty quickly feel/notice/observe Tryptamine's methylation into NMT/DMT by SAM via INMT.

 

[Sab-Alternate]

Seems like it's worth a try, and I've been meaning to (but keep forgetting). At worst, I'm out of a few $ on vitamins.

Oh it'll work, if it's done right. Anybody need any advice, lmk. Thankfully vitamins and Tryptophan (and Rue) are cheap.