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enlightenment

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Danza said:
whilst I think our experience is an emergent property of our brain.. I am not *entirely* convinced of this position
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Well, you could be (not entirely convinced)... but it doesn't really matter.

We carry the blueprints of the spiritual dimension in ourselves. These blueprints are like informational DNA: we have the capacity to make them alive - to dream them into reality - through our consciousness. I strongly suspect that they do not exist at all if there is noone who manifests them. But if they come alive, they change how our brains operate: how we think, what we think to be possible.

It is not necessary that these dimensions have any reality beyond this. People tend to think that the imagination is less powerful than the forces of the material dimension. This is not so. Spiritual experiences can have a great effect on a person's behaviour. And by influencing a person's behaviour, they also have indirect control over this world.
 
Mr_DMT said:
enlightenment is beyond words.
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have you experienced it?
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i voted no, i personally feel enlightenment involves more the self's life within where as psychedelics heal and teach and open the mind.
 
fractal enchantment said:
whats this thing again were calling "spiritual enlightenment"?..cus id really love to know, if there even is such a thing.
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There is. You have to experience it to know it. When you do, you understand.

Sorry, I wish I could explain it to you, but it is one of those things that cannot be caputred with language.
 
If you are responsibly using psychedelics then you are probably the type of person searching for enlightenment.

I voted no because psychedelics won't get you there from my experience...For me they have drawn me to meditation and to various philosophical incites but you have to take those and go from there. I don't think I personally would have discovered what I have without psychedelics but that isn't to say you couldn't and they aren't the end of the journey.
 
burnt said:
I said cut the self righteousness. The "enlightened" ones really have the biggest egos.

I didn't mean to start an argument by saying that which is maybe why the post was deleted. I was pointing out that I think most people who think they were enlightened really did wind up having big egos.
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Well there's a HUGE difference between people that ARE enlightened and people that THINK THEY ARE enlightened. And I think unfortunately the latter group is a lot bigger :p
 
A jesus complex is kind of the opposite of what enlightenment is all about. That also means that you would have to lower your expectations a little on what enlightenment may actually bring you. If anyone is hoping to be able to walk on water one day, than psychedelics are clearly making no difference whatsoever, even if taken in amounts that would make it seem otherwise.
Some sense of balance and joy in being alive on the other hand, wich is clearly a less spectacular thing than being able to turn water into wine, is not so bad at all. And yes, psychedelics may help smoothen the way to such a state of mind.
 
The best aspect of DMT is that it has the ability to open the mind and allow one to see things in a entirely diffrent perspective. We spend our entire lives living while looking through one frame of reference. Psychadelic drugs are one component in evolution of mind that can make a piece of the journey shorter and easier but not all of it just a piece. The dillema is that some use mind altering drugs as a religion in and of itself because it is a easy thing to undertake but very much intense so they feel like they are 'doing something' .

We are a product of our experiences they form our foundation of reality and as such the more experience one has the more they have to draw from. The path to enlightenment is a never ending one there is no final set goal. It is a way of life that one must undertake until the end striving to move farther and faster each day so they may evolve as far as possible in the span of a life. This is why short cuts arent bad like DMT but you cannot allow them to be a distraction or they will counter their purpose.
 
Saidin said:
fractal enchantment said:
whats this thing again were calling "spiritual enlightenment"?..cus id really love to know, if there even is such a thing.
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There is. You have to experience it to know it. When you do, you understand.

Sorry, I wish I could explain it to you, but it is one of those things that cannot be caputred with language.
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Yes yes, I was half being sarcasitic..I jus find the whole topic of enlightenment funny more often than not, becasue alot of people seem to be grasping at something that is a fantacy IMO. I believe I have reached what people call "enlightenment", in fact I am sur of it..but I came back every time..just a side effect of a cosmos in motion.

Alot of people tend to have some idea of enlightenment as some sort of permanent state of being..which makes no sense to me, unless you think that enlightenment is like a thread that runs through ALL states of being simultanousily at once..everything is in flux, nothing is static, so why would a state of "enlightenment" be any different?..

Enlightenment to me is temporal the way most people define it, then again I wouldnt define it the way I think most people choose to..you can reach that state again and again, but you always come back to normal egoic consciousness as well..jsut becasue someone is "enlightened" one moment, doesnt mean they necessarily are the next..unless you want to say that "enlightenment" is just the conscious realization that all states of being are devine..but even so, the degree to which we realy hold that awareness in our minds is something that fluctuates itself, and I personally think that anyone who says that can live a life in western society and not loose some sight of that reality at times is full of it. Life doesnt seem to be about trancending ego all day long..ego is a tool, and a wonderful one at that..

That being said..alot of "enlightenment" talk that I hear and read makes it sound like enlightenment is some sort of end point, or spiritual ceiling one reaches where they are now residing in thehighest state of being..which I dont agree with..how can we know that?..there ALWAYS seems to be anoter level above what we think is the highest level, then one abovethat and another above that, and so on..to some being somewhere normal human egoic consciousness might be something they refer to as "enlightenment" respective to where they are currently at..

The term "spiritual" enlightenment sounds funny as well..is there a type of enlightenment that is not "spiritual"..words are funny this way..
Once you have REALLY been there, you do know..but its half memory at times..other times you just see it everywhere..but terms like "spiritual enlightement" just start to sound silly..attemping to speak the unspeakable..words mean NOTHING. A silly definition that doesnt even hit close to the thing.

So this thing called "spiritual enlightenment" does exist you say..well ok..I say that it exists only in the mind of the person to whome it means something..becasue its just a phrase.
 
the word entheogen means generating the god within
using psyche delic which means being shown 'delic' the psyche/soul ..... plants brews ect have been around since mankind walked on this planet animals also know which plants barks roots and berries cause similar effects in them and use them as well........it's natures way of saying high.....lol

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i think psychedelics can cause a certain enlightenment, but not make one an enlightened being. i find this completely different.

Enlightenment in my eyes is a new perspective of self of ego, bringing one a step closer to becoming enlightened as a being.

Being enlightened to me means the start of life. The beginning where ones transcendent being appears an one no longer to works as a mechanical display of the ego around us. This enlightened person can never become fully free and true of will though as ego is always on a journey inwards, as our minds are journeying outwards into the path of the unknown also known as the human self and mind.

just my two cents on the matter
 
Damn such hard question to answer... psychedelics are very helpful for spiritual and mental enlightment.. but i can't say they are the best way to enlightment... but considering circumstances in our daily lives, it might be the best way for some people to gain a bit of awaraness, or at least take their attention to the topic "awarenes" or "spiritual enlightment"..

So i believe its the best tool for helping/improving/boosting spiritual enlightment and increasing awarenes.. but i voted "NO" because it would be wrong to call it "the best route to spiritual enlightment".
 
While I think that psycadelics are a tool that can be used for spiritual growth, in the right context, I do not believe that they are a path to enlightenment.

I believe that DMT in particular can be a great asset in finding the divinity within and without, it, in and of itself, will not bring enlightenment.

Meditation, training the senses and emotions, repetition of a mantram, and utter love, are, to me, a multifaceted approach to enlightenment.
 
define enlightenment.
Can someone own define enlight?
I think enlight is just learn about love and life.
You dont have to help people, animals, ambient, be against murders, crime, war or even this money world.

I have never being at religion and never believe in some popular writen ethic code impost.
And after a hard time in my life I discovered mezcaline and then DMT, and the experiences this things give to me once in a while have learned to me about pure love...

So, in my concept of enlightenment and the gifts I have obtained from psychedelics I can say:
they, psychedelics, are a gift, If you use it with the right purpose, and they can show you the path to...
 
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