Ethnobotanicals

[Shanghigher]

I think there's different ways of putting it together, so you might get slightly different looks. There's also the other problem where the chemicals used to make it are a lot harder to find, and you can make knockoffs (I can't remember their names off the top of my head) easier, which is generally what happens. You can even get people flogging MCAT as MDMA, which is nowhere near as enjoyable IMO and makes you feel like death (much more so) the following day.

Best and the legit stuff tends to be some of a mild yellowish/brownish colour, and crystal. Anything else could be anything else.

 

[expandaneum]

mild yellowish/brownish colour

color says nothing about purity, crystals are a better indication(but still s a very bad one) since its more easily cut when its powder.
If you have a chance, use reagents and do some tlc, or a melting point check for first indication. It should be around 150 Celsius if you have hcl

 

[wearepeople]

Bumping this thread for the plant folks out there.

 

[GMM]

Back in the days ,candyflipping was my way to go.
Started with100-150 mg of mdma , followed by 200-250 ug LSD one hour later.

If it was an intimte setting i maybe would increase the amount of acid (exploring nature and/or your mind), at a festival or rave or so , maybe some more mdma .(more sociable).

Some good acid is available at the moment over here , so maybe pretty soon i will make a nice flip ,

Never done mescaline(non available) but sounds very interresting.:thumb_up:

 

[Nathanial.Dread]

I am marvelled at the intensity of this drug from this newer batch. Someone said to me that whenever you use a new source of MDMA your body reacquints itself and produces stronger effects. I think I may just be feeling some of that.

From a pharmacological standpoint, this makes *no* sense. Your body has no way of knowing where the MDMA came from, one molecule is basically just like another.

Differences in purity, or if it's cut with different psychoactive compounds, might contribute to a different experience, but if I give you 99% pure MDMA I made in a lab over which I have said hours of blessings and 99% pure MDMA that was cooked up in a soulless government lab, *and you don't know which is which* the experience should be identical.

Blessings
~ND

 

[Infectedstyle]

I am marvelled at the intensity of this drug from this newer batch. Someone said to me that whenever you use a new source of MDMA your body reacquints itself and produces stronger effects. I think I may just be feeling some of that.

From a pharmacological standpoint, this makes *no* sense. Your body has no way of knowing where the MDMA came from, one molecule is basically just like another.

Differences in purity, or if it's cut with different psychoactive compounds, might contribute to a different experience, but if I give you 99% pure MDMA I made in a lab over which I have said hours of blessings and 99% pure MDMA that was cooked up in a soulless government lab, *and you don't know which is which* the experience should be identical.

Blessings
~ND

I think so too. This question extends to Mescaline and any other chemical as well. As a more extreme example Mescaline in it's synthetic form should produce the same experience as the Mescaline that has been extracted from cactii.

However, Someone mentioned the visual side of Synthetic Mesc is lacking. And I think I would agree. But I don't personally have any natural Mesc experiences to compare it with. Loads of people regard 4-aco-dmt to be a pro-drug for 4-ho-dmt a.k.a. Psilocin. In that case, visuals from said substance should be very similar but I notice genuine mushrooms have much more to offer in terms of visuals compared to 4-aco-dmt. Which is strange considering that it is likely to be converted and metabolized in the same way as Psilocin. As noted by Sasha Shulgin.

However, when coming back to MDMA. The "Word on the street" goes that different precursors from which the MDMA was synthesized produce slightly different effects? Purity is speculated to be at play here. I still think it is strange that impurities will make qualitative differences, considering non of these impurities except for MDA etc. are likely to have any psychoactive activity in the brain at all. And MDA should be easily distinguished as it is vastly different from regular MDMA in it's effects.

I think we can extroplate that to LSD as well. I've had someone told me that 99.5% and 99.9% can produce an experiental difference. How can such a small amount make any notable changes in experience? I am going out on a limb here and suggest another mechanism like Morphic Resonance may be at play here. In that case, maybe the blessings of the lab-rats at work may play a role in it's effect. And so does the quality of the precursors used in the process. i.e. Ergot in LSD is generally the same starting material. The precursors for MDMA are widely variable.

Just to offer an alternatively tangible idea here.

 

[Nathanial.Dread]

I am marvelled at the intensity of this drug from this newer batch. Someone said to me that whenever you use a new source of MDMA your body reacquints itself and produces stronger effects. I think I may just be feeling some of that.

From a pharmacological standpoint, this makes *no* sense. Your body has no way of knowing where the MDMA came from, one molecule is basically just like another.

Differences in purity, or if it's cut with different psychoactive compounds, might contribute to a different experience, but if I give you 99% pure MDMA I made in a lab over which I have said hours of blessings and 99% pure MDMA that was cooked up in a soulless government lab, *and you don't know which is which* the experience should be identical.

Blessings
~ND

I think so too. This question extends to Mescaline and any other chemical as well. As a more extreme example Mescaline in it's synthetic form should produce the same experience as the Mescaline that has been extracted from cactii.

However, Someone mentioned the visual side of Synthetic Mesc is lacking. And I think I would agree. But I don't personally have any natural Mesc experiences to compare it with. Loads of people regard 4-aco-dmt to be a pro-drug for 4-ho-dmt a.k.a. Psilocin. In that case, visuals from said substance should be very similar but I notice genuine mushrooms have much more to offer in terms of visuals compared to 4-aco-dmt. Which is strange considering that it is likely to be converted and metabolized in the same way as Psilocin. As noted by Sasha Shulgin.

However, when coming back to MDMA. The "Word on the street" goes that different precursors from which the MDMA was synthesized produce slightly different effects? Purity is speculated to be at play here. I still think it is strange that impurities will make qualitative differences, considering non of these impurities except for MDA etc. are likely to have any psychoactive activity in the brain at all. And MDA should be easily distinguished as it is vastly different from regular MDMA in it's effects.

I think we can extroplate that to LSD as well. I've had someone told me that 99.5% and 99.9% can produce an experiental difference. How can such a small amount make any notable changes in experience? I am going out on a limb here and suggest another mechanism like Morphic Resonance may be at play here. In that case, maybe the blessings of the lab-rats at work may play a role in it's effect. And so does the quality of the precursors used in the process. i.e. Ergot in LSD is generally the same starting material. The precursors for MDMA are widely variable.

Just to offer an alternatively tangible idea here.

On the subject of synthetic mescaline vs. extracts, I think it's more likely that the extract is also pulling analogous compounds that are very much like, but not exactly the same as mescaline. Those compounds may have slightly different binding affinities, which might induce a richer experience.

As for the same compound having different effects based on synthesis, that seems *extremely* unlikely. IMO, morphic resonance is BS, I've never seen any kind of study suggesting that such a thing even exists, let alone impacts the subjective experience of a drug. If the synthesis route could effect a drug, I'm certain the pharmaceutical industry would have found some way to tap into it, that would be a great way to increase the effectiveness of the drug.

Blessings
~ND

 

[Infectedstyle]

On the subject of synthetic mescaline vs. extracts, I think it's more likely that the extract is also pulling analogous compounds that are very much like, but not exactly the same as mescaline. Those compounds may have slightly different binding affinities, which might induce a richer experience.

Why, yes. I respect this theory. But I would personally like to see double-blind studies showing that this is in fact the case before I put my faith completely to it. In other words, I simply do not know enough about it and potential mescaline analogs in the cactus.

As for the same compound having different effects based on synthesis, that seems *extremely* unlikely.

Yes, but not impossible. Anecdotal reports are vast. For example Galantamine extracted from Red spider lily is widely regarded as more effective for Dream supplements compared to Galantamine from Synthetic source.

I plan to send you a PM as this is such a touchy subject. I understand that from a pharmacological standpoint this makes no sense. But that could just be because it rejects any notion for it based on past research. Thus, no research has been done in this area as far as I know. I will send you a PM with mysterious aspects of chemistry that I believe could be explained by Morphic Resonanse but remains a mystery as far as conventional physics are concerned. I just hope I don't get sidetracked and forget all about it..

 

[skoobysnax]

In response to different MDMA topics popping up on the Nexus. And considering that I regard most Nexus members to have high standards for knowing a substance thorougly before using it.

I was wondering if someone with a broader array of experience with the substance could tell me if they noted different types of experiences arising from use of different sources of MDMA. And if some of them have turned out negative. If there are major differences with different types of ingestion (quidding,oral, etc.) Alternatively, is set & setting the main cause for slightly challenging experiences.

I have personally acquired 2 grams from a different type of MDMA (rocks as opposed to off-white powder) and have noted anxiety in the form of chest discomfort arise from dosing over 50mg. Granted, set & setting may not have been quite ideal for letting out emotions which I have a hard time in verbalizing anyway.

In kind regards, me

Anymore I can see taste and smell if it is real to a degree but please do spend the money and send it of to dancesafe.org Testing powders is pricey BUT you will know for sure then, especially if you plan on eating that over time with loved ones. If it is bunk/fake then TELL EVERYONE!!! You may save a life. Also I always give myself as close to 90days or more as I can between MDMA sessions. Overuse kills the magic and that's where the Tuesday blues really play in from my own experience. I stopped using it as a party drug and focus on its therapudic aspects. For me it opens my vulnerabilities and empathic centers up so much I get more out of it that way.

 

[The Day Tripper]

On the subject of synthetic mescaline vs. extracts, I think it's more likely that the extract is also pulling analogous compounds that are very much like, but not exactly the same as mescaline. Those compounds may have slightly different binding affinities, which might induce a richer experience.

Why, yes. I respect this theory. But I would personally like to see double-blind studies showing that this is in fact the case before I put my faith completely to it. In other words, I simply do not know enough about it and potential mescaline analogs in the cactus.

As for the same compound having different effects based on synthesis, that seems *extremely* unlikely.

Yes, but not impossible. Anecdotal reports are vast. For example Galantamine extracted from Red spider lily is widely regarded as more effective for Dream supplements compared to Galantamine from Synthetic source.

I plan to send you a PM as this is such a touchy subject. I understand that from a pharmacological standpoint this makes no sense. But that could just be because it rejects any notion for it based on past research. Thus, no research has been done in this area as far as I know. I will send you a PM with mysterious aspects of chemistry that I believe could be explained by Morphic Resonanse but remains a mystery as far as conventional physics are concerned. I just hope I don't get sidetracked and forget all about it..

In regards to the difference in efficacy for differently sourced galantamine extracts, perhaps stereoisomers might be a contributing factor?

I would assume the same would apply for synthetic/extracted mescaline, assuming the mescaline molecule has stereoisomers.

Just another variable to consider when talking about differently produced compounds, and how the production process (be it natural or synthetic) leads to the same molecule, but two molecules that are dextro and levo isomers have vastly different pharmacological effects (best example is amphetamine, but iirc, lsd has 4 stereoisomers and only one is active).

 

[Nathanial.Dread]

It never occured to me to look at different enantiomers of MDMA (which is never talked about). Here's what wikipedia has to say:

MDMA - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

MDMA and metabolites are primarily excreted as conjugates, such as sulfates and glucuronides.[63] MDMA is a chiral compound and has been almost exclusively administered as a racemate. However, the two enantiomers have been shown to exhibit different kinetics. The disposition of MDMA may also be stereoselective, with the S-enantiomer having a shorter elimination half-life and greater excretion than the R-enantiomer. Evidence suggests[64] that the area under the blood plasma concentration versus time curve (AUC) was two to four times higher for the (R)-enantiomer than the (S)-enantiomer after a 40 mg oral dose in human volunteers. Likewise, the plasma half-life of (R)-MDMA was significantly longer than that of the (S)-enantiomer (5.8 ± 2.2 hours vs 3.6 ± 0.9 hours).[4] However, because MDMA excretion and metabolism have nonlinear kinetics,[65] the half-lives would be higher at more typical doses (100 mg is sometimes considered a typical dose[60]).

I can't imagine that anyone is doing a sterioselective synthesis though, so different effects based on conformation seems highly unlikely.

Blessings
~ND

 

[Coja]

^ Though different synthesis routes may lead to different proportions of S- vs. R-. I know some real fans of ketamine prefer one over the other, could likely be similar for mdma when it comes to certain elements of the experience. You see this a lot these days in subtle differences in cannabis strains with elements other than delta-9-THC that tradionally weren't thought of as having much impact on the "high" or subjective experience of pot, but that some users really can tell a difference in.

 

[Nathanial.Dread]

I've always been concerned about loosing the roll while still tripping on the LSD. Combining MDMA comedown (which for me is very rough) with a psychedelic headspace sounds like it has the potential to be very, very unpleasant.

Does the LSD ameliorate the crash a little bit? What are the day-after effects like?

Blessings
~ND

 

[Pup Tentacle]

I thought it was fantastic. I ate the LSD and then the MDMA about 1.5-2 hours after. Neither were large doses. about 110mg of MDMA (I weigh about 210#) and 1 hit of blotter that if I had to guess...lol... and I do have to guess... was in the 250mic area.

Lovely euphoria... I spent a lot of the time just laid back in a dark room with my headphones on. Super positive feelings that didn't fog up the LSD headspace that I love so well. It does feel a touch "plasticy" though, for lack of a better word. Like you loose a bit of depth for that super-smiley thing.

ND - As far as the crash... I guess the LSD helped? I don't have much occasion to experiment with MDMA. The times I have though, I haven't had too much problem with a crash... but again... I don't do big doses and, with the exception of the first time, it has been in combination with another substance. I will say that most days after an experience like that are going to feel down, just because everything can't be as groovy as that "rainbow-pooping unicorn with magic hats" experience.

>>>I should also throw in that I take a ton of supplements when I eat MDMA so maybe that's helping with the crash as well and thusly why I don't really notice it.

As of late I've found it quite rewarding to combo LSD with cactus resin... similar positive direction without it being quite as "neon hello kitty" euphoric (which was cool, but felt kind of shallow to me).

Don't forget... Santa loves the cactus too :thumb_up:

 

[Nathanial.Dread]

^ Though different synthesis routes may lead to different proportions of S- vs. R-. I know some real fans of ketamine prefer one over the other, could likely be similar for mdma when it comes to certain elements of the experience. You see this a lot these days in subtle differences in cannabis strains with elements other than delta-9-THC that tradionally weren't thought of as having much impact on the "high" or subjective experience of pot, but that some users really can tell a difference in.

Hmm, there is a big difference between dextro and levoamphematine. I wonder if that holds true for MDMA.

Obviously it's impossible to know what synthesis is the most popular, but I have a couple floating around (I don't synth, it's just for interest), and I can look to see if any of them look like they'd be stereo-selective in anyway. I'm inclined to doubt it, but we'll see.

Blessings
~ND

 

[downwardsfromzero]

Hmm, there is a big difference between dextro and levoamphematine. I wonder if that holds true for MDMA.

Yes there is. The S- isomer is more active:

(with 100 mg of the "R" isomer) There were the slightest of effects noted at about an hour (a couple of paresthetic twinges) and then nothing at all.

(with 160 mg of the "R" isomer) A disturbance of baseline at about forty minutes and this lasts for about another hour. Everything is clear by the third hour.

(with 200 mg of the "R" isomer) A progression from an alert at thirty minutes to a soft and light intoxication that did not persist. This was a modest +, and I was at baseline in another hour.

(with 60 mg of the "S" isomer) The effects began developing in a smooth, friendly way at about a half-hour. My handwriting is OK but I am writing faster than usual. At the one hour point, I am quite certain that I could not drive, time is slowing down a bit, but I am mentally very active. My pupils are considerably dilated. The dropping is evident at two hours, and complete by the third hour. All afternoon I am peaceful and relaxed, but clear and alert, with no trace of physical residue at all. A very successful ++.

(with 100 mg of the "S" isomer) I feel the onset is slower than with the racemate. Physically, I
am excited, and my pulse and blood pressure are quite elevated. This does not have the 'fire' of the racemate, nor the rush of the development in getting to the plateau.

(with 120 mg of the "S" isomer) A rapid development, and both writing and typing are impossible before the end of the first hour. Lying down with eyes closed eliminates all effects; the visual process is needed for any awareness of the drug's effects. Some teeth clenching, but no nystagmus. Excellent sleep in the evening.

Erowid Online Texts : PiHKAL #109 MDMA

 

[Infectedstyle]

Lol, I don't experience MDMA like this at all. 50-120mg is enough to make me happy like ziggity zigity zig for an hour or 2 but then it just sits in my head. eyes closed eyes open doesn't matter. i just have a pressure in my head and it really doesn't add anything but a neutral air and headache.

This is not a hangerover, this is just how MDMA effects me LOL!!

 

[trncefigurate_aomn]

I have experienced some learning regarding two unique entheobotanicals. One appears to have been fully unexplored by online communities and scientific inquiry, and, one has had what appears to be the bare minimum of online discussion (overall neither of these are on erowid, lycaeum, the wiki here) and some scientific inquiry but that did not have published followup research or possibly simply no followups.

What is the process when community members have found new information about entheobotanicals?
I do also have some helpful experience with using known entheobotanicals sublingually before sleep that I want to share. I will try asking in chat, I think, as well. Mostly I am thinking in a botany community, new discoveries would be checked with peers and elders first, before publishing!

 

[Cactus Man]

I have experienced some learning regarding two unique entheobotanicals. One appears to have been fully unexplored by online communities and scientific inquiry, and, one has had what appears to be the bare minimum of online discussion (overall neither of these are on erowid, lycaeum, the wiki here) and some scientific inquiry but that did not have published followup research or possibly simply no followups.

What is the process when community members have found new information about entheobotanicals?
I do also have some helpful experience with using known entheobotanicals sublingually before sleep that I want to share. I will try asking in chat, I think, as well. Mostly I am thinking in a botany community, new discoveries would be checked with peers and elders first, before publishing!

Feel free to share more in this thread! Would love to hear it.

 

[downwardsfromzero]

I have experienced some learning regarding two unique entheobotanicals. One appears to have been fully unexplored by online communities and scientific inquiry, and, one has had what appears to be the bare minimum of online discussion (overall neither of these are on erowid, lycaeum, the wiki here) and some scientific inquiry but that did not have published followup research or possibly simply no followups.

What is the process when community members have found new information about entheobotanicals?
I do also have some helpful experience with using known entheobotanicals sublingually before sleep that I want to share. I will try asking in chat, I think, as well. Mostly I am thinking in a botany community, new discoveries would be checked with peers and elders first, before publishing!

Bumping this teaser. Come on, dude!