• Members of the previous forum can retrieve their temporary password here, (login and check your PM).

TEK Ethyl acetate approach [CIELO]

This topic contain a TEK
Migrated topic.
More updates from the reddit world:

Success "skipping" the dough/paste step. Instead the water was mixed in with a handheld electric mixer in the french press, once incorporated, fridge cold EA was added for the pulls.

No fridge rest, salted directly.

New world record, 32 minutes from powder to xtals. 3.3% yield.

I still stand by using a blender and as little water as possible. I've never had to do a fridge rest if on the lower end of water content and using a blender. However, using a mixer would enable even less water comtent than what is needed in a blender. I still rate warm pulls too. So I'm not surprised by this finding, it definitely speeds things up. I do rolling pulls with the filter too which minimises time. And I enjoy shaking and using the higher end of citric acid scale 20mg/ml (in my tests it'll crash out 90-95% of your yield in 5-10mins last 5-10% crashes out over a day or 2) All speeds up the process, however I usually have to use minimal hot water to collect the dry crystals from the wall of the jars and do a quick evap (which slows the process for me).
 
Last edited:
Very interesting! He used 95 grams of water for 91 grams of cactus, blended for 15 seconds on the lowest setting with his immersion blender whisk attachment, and then added cold EA. The water content is very low compared to the usual TEK recipe of 130 grams of water for 100 grams of cactus powder (plus up to an additional 130 grams of water to get the correct dough consistency). For comparison, I've always used 300 grams of water for 100 grams of cactus powder (the 69ron paste ratios).

With such a low water content, I wonder if all the mescaline was freebased and pulled? A comparison with identical cactus material using this technique versus the standard TEK would be useful.
Over time we have learned that a lot less water can be used. It keeps the EA drier and the fridge rest can be skipped, with direct salting after filtering. No goo and less sticky xtals.


The TEK has been steadily dropping in water content down from (3x cactus weight) to (1.3x + small incremental amounts to get a dough).

This new 1x lazy approach with EA mixed in a few seconds later before forming a dough/paste is very interesting.
 
With some exprience over the years and dozens of cacti extractions, I have become convinced that the fridge rest is not needed if the paste is not too wet to begin with. I now believe that the ideal paste has just enough water to moisten the cactus powder with no dry spots. Any water beyond that, is not usefull and seems to be the cause of some beginners get5ing goo. Side note: it also seems helpfull to let the paste air out for a few minutes to allow the ammonia smell to dissipate.

There are several kind of paste after mixing well

- Too dry: some dry powder remains.
- Ideal: just enough water is added so all the cactus powder is wet. Consistensy is similar to play-doh. Fridge rest and decant is not needed, but it eont hurt.
- Accceptable: More water than ideal, but the paste can still hold its shape. Consistency is similar to moist mash potatoes. Fridge rest reccomended to avoid goo.
- Too wet: Paste is so wet it begins to not offer resistance to holding its shape (soggy mashed potatoe consitency or beyond). Fridge rest may not be enough to avoid goo. More extensive drying with a freezer or sodium carbonate step may be required (however, excessive drying can cause other issues such as sticky powder, hard goo, or no clouding reaction). If goo is obtained, 99% IPA re-X will recover xtaline product.

With an ideal paste, and by not undersalting (at least 5g citric acid per quart of extract), the process is very robust in my opinion.

I'm planning on updating the TEK soon. In particular, making it clear that the Ideal paste is preffered instead of the Acceptable one. Wondering if anyone has any feedback or different/alternative observations before that.

ah i see maybe my issue is similar! first run ceilo here! currently have goo even though my dough/paste seemed very good and just wet enough to not have any crumbles. i did my fridge rest but didnt notice any layer separated at all. so i just salted right away but i did salt while the ETA was cold... anyways. saw the clouding but not a ton. about 72 hours after salting and no crystals but a small thick layer im assuming "the dreaded goo". I cant do much with it till next monday so im thinking im going to let it sit till then, then try for this 99% IPA reX step. I noticed here when looking for answers that this guy didnt have sealed jars. i bought a big mason jar for this and it ended up being a non mason jar lid so there was a gasket in the lid i had to take out making it not sealed air tight. i am also humid in my area so maybe thats where excess water couldve came in. Chemistry is not my strongest but this place is helping. thank you for all help.
 
ah i see maybe my issue is similar! first run ceilo here! currently have goo even though my dough/paste seemed very good and just wet enough to not have any crumbles. i did my fridge rest but didnt notice any layer separated at all. so i just salted right away but i did salt while the ETA was cold... anyways. saw the clouding but not a ton. about 72 hours after salting and no crystals but a small thick layer im assuming "the dreaded goo". I cant do much with it till next monday so im thinking im going to let it sit till then, then try for this 99% IPA reX step. I noticed here when looking for answers that this guy didnt have sealed jars. i bought a big mason jar for this and it ended up being a non mason jar lid so there was a gasket in the lid i had to take out making it not sealed air tight. i am also humid in my area so maybe thats where excess water couldve came in. Chemistry is not my strongest but this place is helping. thank you for all help.
Yes, the cold EA could have absorbed some water if unsealed while warming up.

There could have also been some difficult to see water droplets on your jar walls/bottom after the fridge rest, not sure. Sodium carbonate partial dry would have helped with that if it where the case.

The 99% ISO re-X will work. Don't expect all the white mescaline powder to dissolve necessarily, some can be left behind as the water and citric acid are removed by the hot IPA. The freezer part will recover any dissolved mescaline citrate.
 
Has anyone in the past tested salicylic acid with ethyl acetate? Just did a mini test and hard to tell where the mescaline is. I think it is in the 70% isopropanol since

I think the mescaline salicylate is in this liquid and the crystals are just unreacted salicylic acid which I converted from aspirin. In theory there should be 300mg of the mescaline salicylate having started with 200mg of pure amine hcl salt.

The issue IF this does work it isn't viable for extraction of tea since it remains soluble in the water. The crystal needles are soluble in 99% isopropanol so I think it is the unreacted salicylaic acid but hard to tell without a reagent test.

The solvent here is 70% isopropanol. Salicylic acid has low solubility in water but is very soluble in alcohol. The ratio was tested just to see viability. Maybe should have started with just pure water or pure alcohol.

Maybe it'll work with Ethyl acetate? wondering about the solubility in different solvents.
 

Attachments

  • IMG_8801.JPG
    IMG_8801.JPG
    2.1 MB · Views: 3
  • IMG_8803.JPG
    IMG_8803.JPG
    3.2 MB · Views: 3

Attachments

  • salicyclic acid in 5 solvents_1.jpg
    salicyclic acid in 5 solvents_1.jpg
    676.5 KB · Views: 3
  • salicyclic acid in 5 solvents_2.jpg
    salicyclic acid in 5 solvents_2.jpg
    505.3 KB · Views: 3
I haven't seen that around related to CIELO in particular but this 2008 paper shows some solubility results, i think at 200.76mg/g @ room temp, but i barely know what I'm looking at with that paper tbh...

Good paper thanks... the issue is mostly knowing the solubility of the mescaline salicyate. I'm evaporating the cloudy water solution but seems hard to distinguish or seperate which is the unreacted acid and the new salt. If the mescaline salicyate is very water soluble or insoluble in alcohol you'll be able to seperate it from the acid. Atleast its a 'safe' acid but doesn't seem like a good option atleast for mescaline.
 
greetings. coming with some cielo tek related notes from the field from another who gives thanks to those that came before us and have passed on the knowledge and are working on keeping the torch lit for those to come.

a first extraction was attempted with some operator errors, one wonders if anyone might have some input as to what might be able to be done to salvage any yield. it was a particular bummer, seen only looking back that a test run or two should be made with some less valuable (potent) material but alas what is done is done.

first attempt with lumberjack, aged 3+ months in dark. and some pachanoi from SPM, fresh, dried. about 50/50 to total 100g dry dust. not wet here. was dusted then put in dehydrator for another few hours at 130 or so.

used one mixing container added 25g mrs wigles lime to 100g dust and mixed, then dropped water in.... can anyone speak to differences between mixing lime in water first then dust or?

first major tactical error: the scale that was used maxes out at 200 its thought and thus when it came time to add h2o it was impossible to tell how much had been added and "eye-balling" it was required; strongly suspect it was overhydrated but didn't resemble the grossly overhydrated samples in photo. no deviation from tek on pulls. cold EA. it says mix for 3 minutes and so a timer was set and strong mixing was done with a mini wisk. no stronger than how mixed the sample is with the electronic whisk in the attached (to tek) video. pulled 150ish mls at a time until quart jar full. was very dark green with the red/brown tint at some angles.

2nd error: attempted the fridge rest for beginners. accidentally added sodium bicarb instead of sodium carb; 1 tablespoon. came back next day to no clumping so thought was all good to go. lo and behold, later discovered the wrong agent was used which could xplain why it didn't clump... wasn't drying.

dropped in 5g anhydrous citric acid from sprouts grocery (can't find anything online about the contents other than it being citric acid - have since seen that others use milliard and thus -- moving towards this as material instead to remove/reduce risk of particular samples confounding results). saw clouding. got no xtalization after a day. started fucking with it... spun it for a little while, added another 5ish g of citric. don't think much appeared when spun. seemed the gel/goo might have been observable at this point but couldnt tell.

trailed adding a few drops of h2o, thinking it was already dried. discovered sodium bicarb issue.

trialed putting in freezer. after a few days in freezer, maybe a little bit might have xtalized and was swirling when stirred. but this could have been ice as well. at this point it was spun then decanted. strainer contained some xtal looking material which disappeared with evaporation. it was suspected that at the bottom of this jar was some goo (confirmed by touch) and this was discarded for unknown reasons.

sodium carb was aquired and neutralizing EA commenced. it resulted in significant clumping of the material which is retained (can this be rinsed/pulled/flushed for alkaloid?)

after a day of the EA sitting, some xtalization was apparent. but minimal. instead of trying to pour this off and isolate the xtal, another wash was done to ensure it was neutralized. this resulted in less-no clumping of material. now the EA used is much lighter and is considered ready for re-use, with hopes it contains a fair amount of alkaloid that could be seen in future pulls.

the jar which originally held the EA (prior to pouring it off for neutralization) has some hard/dried stuff on the bottom of the jar which is thought to possibly be alkaloid? wondering about attempting to recover with warm water wash and brushing (with glass pipette cleaning brush, plastic/metal) to dissolve? hoping to dissolve in <100ml that is hoped to adequately hydrate the next sample/attempt.

in the future, planning on attempting to hydrate only 1:1 per some of the more recent notes. it looks like the signs of underhydration (lime dropping out) are more obvious and easy to deal with than goo, so would attempt to approach this way? if need be, drop a drop or two of h2o in rather than try to deal with goo. isolating the goo isn't understood. how is this done?

thoughts? could the citric acid from the supermarket be an issue or does it sound right to suspect that it's primarily due to overhydration until proven otherwise?

need to find some cuttings now...
 
greetings. coming with some cielo tek related notes from the field from another who gives thanks to those that came before us and have passed on the knowledge and are working on keeping the torch lit for those to come.

a first extraction was attempted with some operator errors, one wonders if anyone might have some input as to what might be able to be done to salvage any yield. it was a particular bummer, seen only looking back that a test run or two should be made with some less valuable (potent) material but alas what is done is done.

first attempt with lumberjack, aged 3+ months in dark. and some pachanoi from SPM, fresh, dried. about 50/50 to total 100g dry dust. not wet here. was dusted then put in dehydrator for another few hours at 130 or so.

used one mixing container added 25g mrs wigles lime to 100g dust and mixed, then dropped water in.... can anyone speak to differences between mixing lime in water first then dust or?

first major tactical error: the scale that was used maxes out at 200 its thought and thus when it came time to add h2o it was impossible to tell how much had been added and "eye-balling" it was required; strongly suspect it was overhydrated but didn't resemble the grossly overhydrated samples in photo. no deviation from tek on pulls. cold EA. it says mix for 3 minutes and so a timer was set and strong mixing was done with a mini wisk. no stronger than how mixed the sample is with the electronic whisk in the attached (to tek) video. pulled 150ish mls at a time until quart jar full. was very dark green with the red/brown tint at some angles.

2nd error: attempted the fridge rest for beginners. accidentally added sodium bicarb instead of sodium carb; 1 tablespoon. came back next day to no clumping so thought was all good to go. lo and behold, later discovered the wrong agent was used which could xplain why it didn't clump... wasn't drying.

dropped in 5g anhydrous citric acid from sprouts grocery (can't find anything online about the contents other than it being citric acid - have since seen that others use milliard and thus -- moving towards this as material instead to remove/reduce risk of particular samples confounding results). saw clouding. got no xtalization after a day. started fucking with it... spun it for a little while, added another 5ish g of citric. don't think much appeared when spun. seemed the gel/goo might have been observable at this point but couldnt tell.

trailed adding a few drops of h2o, thinking it was already dried. discovered sodium bicarb issue.

trialed putting in freezer. after a few days in freezer, maybe a little bit might have xtalized and was swirling when stirred. but this could have been ice as well. at this point it was spun then decanted. strainer contained some xtal looking material which disappeared with evaporation. it was suspected that at the bottom of this jar was some goo (confirmed by touch) and this was discarded for unknown reasons.

sodium carb was aquired and neutralizing EA commenced. it resulted in significant clumping of the material which is retained (can this be rinsed/pulled/flushed for alkaloid?)

after a day of the EA sitting, some xtalization was apparent. but minimal. instead of trying to pour this off and isolate the xtal, another wash was done to ensure it was neutralized. this resulted in less-no clumping of material. now the EA used is much lighter and is considered ready for re-use, with hopes it contains a fair amount of alkaloid that could be seen in future pulls.

the jar which originally held the EA (prior to pouring it off for neutralization) has some hard/dried stuff on the bottom of the jar which is thought to possibly be alkaloid? wondering about attempting to recover with warm water wash and brushing (with glass pipette cleaning brush, plastic/metal) to dissolve? hoping to dissolve in <100ml that is hoped to adequately hydrate the next sample/attempt.

in the future, planning on attempting to hydrate only 1:1 per some of the more recent notes. it looks like the signs of underhydration (lime dropping out) are more obvious and easy to deal with than goo, so would attempt to approach this way? if need be, drop a drop or two of h2o in rather than try to deal with goo. isolating the goo isn't understood. how is this done?

thoughts? could the citric acid from the supermarket be an issue or does it sound right to suspect that it's primarily due to overhydration until proven otherwise?

need to find some cuttings now...
Sounds like you had goo because you didn't dry it. That gel/goo you mentioned after clouding could be where your product was. It continues to fall out of solution later as xtals which can happen after the goo absorbed some water.

The mescaline should be in the recycled EA. Do you have pH strips? If you moved the mescaline goo back into the EA a pH test will be alkaline.
 
I visited a friend grower/colector over the weekend. He has done hundreds of CIELO extractions and found Eileen and Ida to be in the 4+% range.

He showed me his take on the cielo Tek after all his experience:

- Paste: less water than the TEK. Wet crums work better for him. No filter clogging issues or sediment. He said the key is no dry spots
- Extracted with recycled EA, very green. Room temp. He likes to use pH strips to see the alkaline mescaline as the pulls progress.
- No fridge rest, he mentioned the crumbs (with less water than the paste) enable this without any goo risk at all for him.
- He likes to salt with fumaric acid over a stir bar. He adds about 3g of fumaric only. He mentioned that fumarate is less sticky than citric. He has split an extract between fumaric and citric and found that fumaric is 1.5 times more concentrated (e.g the citric side gave 1.5 grams and the fumarate side gave 1g). That points to dimescaline fumerate forming. Compared to HCl, fumarate is only 9% weaker according to this data.

Others have mentioned that crumbs are OK for them and they prefer them.

I'm wondering if we should update the TEK to recommend wet crumbs. Interesting in what people have experienced in this regard. Only want to do it if it is very consistent for people.

Also, my friend beat the world record of 48 minutes. He went from raw powder to dry xtals in 45 minutes and 2 second.

Thanks!
 
I've always said I've rated less water, and for this reason very rarely have I used the fridge rest (unless i see residue signs at the bottom of the filtered EA-usually because i used a bot more wayer when blending). Still prefer hot EA. Heated solvent should be able to hold more alks.

I posted this to add Elieen for me has produced 5.5% hcl equivalent (green layer only) and is still til this day my most potent cacti. I only have 4 other specimens around that potency mark. Other bridgesii sit between 2.4%-4%.
 
Probably not, it depends what the other 40% is. You'd have to purify the EA which can be difficult. More details required.
That's sad, them I'm out of options. Toluene here is the same, only at lower concentrations.
I'll just do limonene extraction.
Thanks.
 
Last edited:
Hey guys, so ethyl acetate is only possible here on 60% concentration, the 90%+ is controlled by the police.
Would it work the same?
You will need to distill and do some salt brine washes. Here I can only get around 40-45% ethyl acetate as nail polish. Did a DIY distillation using silicon tubing. This will remove oils and any color and minor impurities. Then you need to add heavy salt saturated water and wash maybe 3x to remove the alcohol from the ethyl acetate. Will be very high purity and you can always redistill again.

Toluene you need to have glass distillation kit. To clean up… you can likely get xylene if you wanted. There are also other solvents but Limonene is pretty nice.

I need to get around to testing my water only extraction idea. Fairly confident it’ll work but no point in sharing before trying.
 
That's sad, them I'm out of options. Toluene here is the same, only at lower concentrations.
I'll just do limonene extraction.
Thanks.
Just saw your location. Here in Brazil you can get pure xylene(xilol) Or distill nail polish that has ethyl acetate like I mentioned. Read the ingredients on the acetone free bottles. Ideal brand has highest ethyl acetate percentage but all are pretty much the same.
 
Last edited:
My OTC EA option here in the EU has been acetone-free nail polish remover, although I've held back on the refining process after discovering a supply of butyl acetate. Butyl acetate [BuOAc]
(a.k.a. 'banana oil') picks up mescaline freebase quite well, but there are a few challenges because of the poor solubility of citric acid in comparison with using EA. This can be overcome by using a solution of citric acid in some other solvent, like acetone ("FASA)" or isopropanol ("FASI"). Acetone, in particular, is fairly easy to separate from BuOAc by distillation. IPA might require a fractionation column (e.g., Vigreux) for a quicker, cleaner separation (i.e. for re-use of the BuOAc).
 
Back
Top Bottom