Experience with @sabnock1990 discovery about tryptophan+b6 and b12+rue

[harmala_afficianado]

Ive read @Sabnock1990 post about getting dmt like effects from dosing tryptophan with b6+12 while peaking on rue, since i have no access to dmt, i decided why not, i already had some tryptophan powder, got myself a b complex and tried it.

Swallowed 8g rue powder (you probably only need 4-5g max) waited 1 hour, took 500 mg of tryptophan powder with 2 mg b12 and 50 mg b6, and idk if its because its been a while since i dosed high on the rue or not (ive been taking 5g only the past few weeks) but im having very vivid cevs and oevs, and it def feels diff than tryptophan+rue without the b vitamins, and a tryptamine like headspace.

I already tripped a few days ago so i didnt expect much, i was surprised, ill wait for a longer period without tripping and take a higher amount, sabnock said he sometimes used up to 1g trytophan and 10 mg b12+100 mg b6.

It sure works tho, worth a try if you dont have dmt.

 

[_Trip_]

Sounds like some serious levels of serotonin

 

[Sabnock1990]

Sounds like some serious levels of serotonin

Yeah it's not Serotonin. It's Tryptamine, NMT and DMT.

You can feel the difference between Tryptophan, 5-HTP, Serotonin, Tryptamine, NMT and DMT, especially if you're experienced with them.

I know people would rather believe this is some sort of placebo or just high levels of Serotonin, but i assure you, it's exactly what i'm saying it is. And if others don't figure it out for themselves, then that means i'll be the only one who knows about this and that's good enough for me lol. I know it works, the issue is trying to get others to understand that it works. People would typically rather believe anything else other than what is actually happening because for whatever reason they assume that it's impossible to experience some level of endogenous DMT, but i'm here to tell you that it is possible and all you gotta do is experiment around and understand the process and it'll work.

It's science.

Though it should be noted that i've explored various dosage ranges of the B12, Folate, B6, and up to 1 gram of Tryptophan, so at some point i gotta hone in the dosages so i can find the minimum effective dosages, and people do/can have some B vitamin deficiencies (especially B12) which can also play a role in if this works or not for people, but so long as everything is done rightly, one will notice endogenous Tryptamine, NMT and DMT synthesis, you just need proper gut MAO-A inhibition, some Tryptophan, some B6 (P5P form), some B12 (Methylcobalamin form) and maybe some Methylfolate (or perhaps Folinic Acid, and to avoid Folic Acid especially via fortified foods as it can interfere with proper Folate and B12 utilization). I'm by no means finished with my experimentations i've just been laying off for a bit because i'm more focused on getting my deficiencies more fully addressed and dealt with, but this most definitely works, i'm very good at what i do and i study things in depth, i understand how things work and what to do, people just gotta take it upon themselves to undergo their own experimentations (in the right ways) and it'll work for them so long as everything is done rightly.

B6 decarboxylates Tryptophan to Tryptamine via AADC/DOPA Decarboxylase, which Tryptamine then becomes orally/systemically active via gut MAO-A inhibition, and the Tryptamine then goes though INMT to be methylated to NMT and DMT via SAM and then the NMT and DMT becomes orally/systemically active, and that's all there is to it. If one doesn't take the B6 with the Tryptophan though, it won't be decarboxylated as it should be and Tryptophan will go down it's usual metabolic route and will only turn into Tryptamine/NMT/DMT about 7 hours later and then only cerebrally/in the brain/prefrontal cortex-wise. It's already been shown that AADC/DOPA Decarboxylase and INMT are co-localized together in certain parts of the body/brain, so it's a pretty easy process to get to work assuming one takes enough B vitamins and Tryptophan and MAO-A inhibition, and doesn't have any B vitamin deficiencies. B12 deficiency is a tough one to come back from so it may take some time to recover but once B12 levels are doing better and thus SAM levels are doing better, it'll work.

 

[universecannon]

Swallowed 8g rue powder (you probably only need 4-5g max) waited 1 hour, took 500 mg of tryptophan powder with 2 mg b12 and 50 mg b6, and idk if its because its been a while since i dosed high on the rue or not (ive been taking 5g only the past few weeks) but im having very vivid cevs and oevs, and it def feels diff than tryptophan+rue without the b vitamins, and a tryptamine like headspace.

I think the next step to test this would then be to repeat the experiment as accurately as possible but with just the rue, to try and assess the contribution of tryptophan/b12/b6 to the experience (since, as you say, it's been a while since you dosed that high, and effects can evolve with rue over time).

Not knocking that this may very well work! I just wanted to point out a simple way to help us reach a better perspective on it, especially since the psychedelic aspects of rue can be very set/setting dependent, moreso than most psychedelics IMO (for example laying down in the dark is vastly different for me vs. other activities). Im glad to see more people experimenting with it, just be careful of course and go slow. I don't know the safety profile of this sort of thing.

 

[Sabnock1990]

I think the next step to test this would then be to repeat the experiment as accurately as possible but with just the rue, to try and assess the contribution of tryptophan/b12/b6 to the experience (since, as you say, it's been a while since you dosed that high, and effects can evolve with rue over time).

Not knocking that this may very well work! I just wanted to point out a simple way to help us reach a better perspective on it, especially since the psychedelic aspects of rue can be very set/setting dependent, moreso than most psychedelics IMO (for example laying down in the dark is vastly different for me vs. other activities). Im glad to see more people experimenting with it, just be careful of course and go slow. I don't know the safety profile of this sort of thing.

Been taking the Rue pretty much daily for 14 going on 15 years straight now, it ain't coming from the Rue, that's for sure. I'm very well accustomed to and experienced with Rue, as well as Rue+Cannabinoids, as well as Rue+Tryptophan, as well as Rue+5-HTP, as well as Rue+Tryptophan+B vitamins, the Tryptophan and B vitamins definitely get endogenous Tryptamines flowing, for certain. I've tried pretty much everything i can think of doing with ol' Rue/Harmalas, and this process works lol.

I've also repeated the process with the Harmalas+Tryptophan+B vitamins and it's consistent and reproducible and works everytime so long as all the factors are accounted for.

 

[blig-blug]

It's science.

While I'm sympathetic to your approach and find your experiments interesting, it's very much not "science" that what is happening has anything to do with DMT. It's a hypothesis, and science would be to try to disprove it. Failing repeatedly to do so would make it scientifically very likely that it's indeed about DMT.

Personal experiences, anecdata, etc. are good and valuable, and in cases like this they may be the best we're going to get, given our resources. They're just not science, and it's not helpful to claim that they are so.

 

[Sabnock1990]

While I'm sympathetic to your approach and find your experiments interesting, it's very much not "science" that what is happening has anything to do with DMT. It's a hypothesis, and science would be to try to disprove it. Failing repeatedly to do so would make it scientifically very likely that it's indeed about DMT.

Personal experiences, anecdata, etc. are good and valuable, and in cases like this they may be the best we're going to get, given our resources. They're just not science, and it's not helpful to claim that they are so.

Well what i do is genuine science. I've studied this stuff in depth, and understand what's going on and the whole process, i've got the process down.

Science is not about debunking or disproving or invalidating, it's about figuring things out and understanding things to the best of your ability. And again, this will work for people if they do it rightly, it's consistent, it's reproducible, it's reliable, it works. It is very much science.

I understand that it's (so far) just my personal anecdote, however, i don't deal in anecdotes or what "may" be possible, i deal in hardcore facts/truths that anyone can come to on their own accord if they're willing to put in the work and study.

Again, i know people would rather believe it's not DMT because for whatever reason they assume it's impossible, but that just means they will never figure it out because they assume it's impossible, or because they fail to understand the process or investigate it fully enough.

As always, i urge people to put it to the test themselves, however, it does require one to address deficiencies and take proper dosages and to account for proper timing between the Harmalas and Tryptophan+B's as to ensure proper gut MAO-A inhibition. If one has a deficiency or doesn't take the right dosages or doesn't time things right, it may not work, the point is to not give up and see it through until it does work, and then people will be able to see for themselves that it does work and is exactly what i'm saying it is.

Again though, even if i m the only one in the world that has gotten this to work, that's good enough for me, i'm glad i figured this out and i think it's awesome, if others can get it to work for themselves then that's even more awesome.

 

[universecannon]

Been taking the Rue pretty much daily for 14 going on 15 years straight now, it ain't coming from the Rue, that's for sure. I'm very well accustomed to and experienced with Rue, as well as Rue+Cannabinoids, as well as Rue+Tryptophan, as well as Rue+5-HTP, as well as Rue+Tryptophan+B vitamins, the Tryptophan and B vitamins definitely get endogenous Tryptamines flowing, for certain. I've tried pretty much everything i can think of doing with ol' Rue/Harmalas, and this process works lol.

I've also repeated the process with the Harmalas+Tryptophan+B vitamins and it's consistent and reproducible and works everytime so long as all the factors are accounted for.

That's great, and I understand how you feel, however it's still a sample size of 1, and since @harmala_afficianado is experimenting with it anyways, I think it's still worth trying to do it in a robust way that gives us more reliable, potentially replicable data. That approach is more likely to give people the motivation to look at this more seriously. I understand you yourself have tested it repeatedly but it would be interesting to see if others get similar results by isolating factors. I think changing how you frame/approach this would go a long way towards reaching your goals.

 

[blig-blug]

I understand that it's (so far) just my personal anecdote

Yes, that's exactly why it's not what is generally meant as "science" (see below). That doesn't mean it couldn't be, but it's current status is anecdata.

Science is not about debunking or disproving or invalidating, it's about figuring things out and understanding things to the best of your ability

If you define science as "figuring things out and understanding things to the best of your ability" instead of the method commonly known as "science" then yes, it's science. Fine by me. That's however an idiosyncratic definition and not what most people will understand you to be claiming.

Also, why do you need to claim it to be science, then? Do you think someone may doubt you're trying to figure things out to the best of your ability?

If, instead of saying "It's science" you said "it's the result of me trying to figure out things to the best of my ability", it would still mean the same, and it would be much more clear to everyone. It wouldn't diminish its value.

 

[Sabnock1990]

That's great, and I understand how you feel, however it's still a sample size of 1, and since @harmala_afficianado is experimenting with it anyways, I think it's still worth trying to do it in a robust way that gives us more reliable, potentially replicable data. That approach is more likely to give people the motivation to look at this more seriously. I understand you yourself have tested it repeatedly but it would be interesting to see if others get similar results by isolating factors.

This is why i've said it needs to be studied and reproduced in like rats/mice or something, it is extremely easy to test out imo, as far as i'm aware people just haven't thought about this and so haven't tested it in rats/mice. But, if anyone on this site (or elsewhere) is a scientist and can do studies on rats/mice, they should hop to it imo, because this definitely works, we just need it to be shown that it works. So i understand that so far i'm the only one who has spoken about this but i strongly urge somebody out there to do the necessary studies to show it works.

 

[Sabnock1990]

Yes, that's exactly why it's not what is generally meant as "science" (see below). That doesn't mean it couldn't be, but it's current status is anecdata.


If you define science as "figuring things out and understanding things to the best of your ability" instead of the method commonly known as "science" then yes, it's science. Fine by me. That's however an idiosyncratic definition and not what most people will understand you to be claiming.

Also, why do you need to claim it to be science, then? Do you think someone may doubt you're trying to figure things out to the best of your ability?

If, instead of saying "It's science" you said "it's the result of me trying to figure out things to the best of my ability", it would still mean the same, and it would be much more clear to everyone. It wouldn't diminish its value.

I say it's science because i've studied the science on how nutrients work in the body/brain, the enzymes and metabolic processes in the body/brain, and what all is involved in said processes. It's not that i'm just guessing or assuming or have an idea of what's going on, i actually understand and know and have learned about what's going on in the body/brain and why it works. All the information is there for anyone to learn if they should really want to dive into it, the science is there on how the nutrients work in the body and what they do and the processes involved, the only science that hasn't been proven yet is the connection to endogenous Tryptamine synthesis, and that's the dots i'm connecting here.

 

[blig-blug]

This is why i've said it needs to be studied and reproduced in like rats/mice or something, it is extremely easy to test out imo, as far as i'm aware people just haven't thought about this and so haven't tested it in rats/mice. But, if anyone on this site (or elsewhere) is a scientist and can do studies on rats/mice, they should hop to it imo, because this definitely works, we just need it to be shown that it works. So i understand that so far i'm the only one who has spoken about this but i strongly urge somebody out there to do the necessary studies to show it works.

Have you tried reaching out to some researcher? If you structure it well, making it clear from the beginning that you have looked into this carefully and in practice, maybe you could find someone willing to give it a shot.

 

[Sabnock1990]

Have you tried reaching out to some researcher? If you structure it well, making it clear from the beginning that you have looked into this carefully and in practice, maybe you could find someone willing to give it a shot.

I wish, i mean i've made a few mentions in the hope that a researcher will see it, but i don't know a researcher personally so i'm not sure who to talk to about it.

 

[harmala_afficianado]

it's very much not "science" that what is happening has anything to do with DMT. It's a hypothesis, and science would be to try to disprove it. Failing repeatedly to do so would make it scientifically very likely that it's indeed about DMT.

What do you mean by "science would try to disprove it"? Tryptophan has a metabolic pathway for DMT in the brain, we all actually produce dmt from tryptophan everyday, but mao breaks it down extremely quickly, i don't see how science doesn't agree with it, you can try it for yourself.

 

[universecannon]

@Sabnock1990 can you link your original thread on the topic?

 

[blig-blug]

I wish, i mean i've made a few mentions in the hope that a researcher will see it, but i don't know a researcher personally so i'm not sure who to talk to about it.

Have you tried cold emails? They will be mostly ignored, but you only need a single one to be successful, and you can reuse the same template. I'm not saying you will find someone that way, but the chance is not that low either.
It would obviously be much easier in person, but yeah, you would need some connection.

 

[Sabnock1990]

@Sabnock1990 can you link your original thread on the topic?

Here's my original thread on here about it - Endogenous DMT using nutrients. Testable science. Should be studied.

 

[blig-blug]

What do you mean by "science would try to disprove it"? Tryptophan has a metabolic pathway for DMT in the brain, we all actually produce dmt from tryptophan everyday, but mao breaks down extremely quickly, i don't see how science doesn't agree with it, you can try it for yourself.

To disprove that DMT is causing the observed effects. This is just a consequence of the fact that no explanation can be proved on the positive, only disproved. That doesn't mean it will be disproven: if it's actually correct, it will resist the attempts at doing so. It has the additional benefit of counteracting the human tendency of confirmation bias. For more on this see e.g. Karl Popper, but this is besides the point in this conversation, as I now understand what @Sabnock1990 was claiming, and I agree. The specific word used doesn't interest me that much.

 

[Sabnock1990]

Have you tried cold emails? They will be mostly ignored, but you only need a single one to be successful, and you can reuse the same template. I'm not saying you will find someone that way, but the chance is not that low either.
It would obviously be much easier in person, but yeah, you would need some connection.

I'll see if i can find some emails, maybe i'll have some luck. It would probably be better to talk to someone in person but i don't travel and don't have money to travel, i don't even leave the house lol.

 

[Voidmatrix]

@Sabnock1990, @blig-is referring to the method of falsifiability with respect to his criticism around it being science or not.

Falsifiability - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

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