First time ayahuasca brew... a purging experience?

[3toedsloth]

So this past weekend I sampled my first ever ayahuasca brew. Combining knowledge gained from various sources as well as many posters here, I combined 100g Chaliponga with 100g Caapi to make my brew. I fasted for 36 hours prior, then had a small meal (a sandwich) about 8 hours prior to drinking so my stomach wouldn't be completely empty. Here's what happened:

First of all, it was incredibly difficult to drink. I expected it to taste bad, but I couldn't have possibly been prepared for the liquid bark mulch flavor that awaited me. Nonetheless, I got it down. I had heard I should try to remain still, possibly laying down, to keep it down at least 1 hour for maximum absorption.

After drinking, I went and laid in bed with my blindfold on and tried to relax/await visionary effects. The nausea eventually became impossible to bear, and at the 30 minute mark I began vomiting like nothing I've ever done before. I had much more in my stomach than I had any clue about. It was hard and violent, and was over with quickly. After about 5 heaves, the nausea was gone and I went back to laying down awaiting any additional effects.

I will say this- I felt different. Somewhat elated in a sense, despite the purge. I didn't get any visual effects, nor did I feel so different that I could be absolutely sure it was the result of the aya, but I did feel different.

After about 40 minutes from the time I vomited, I had another rumble in my stomach. This time it was ready to come out the other end. After a 15 minute period of intense diarrhea (way more intense than the strongest laxatives I've taken) I was again shocked at how much there still must have been in my stomach/bowels. After this session was over, I went back to laying down.

From there, I just fell asleep and had nothing else of note happen.

My mother is trying the brew tonight (I made for 2 doses). I will soon know if there's any difference for her as she's a much lesser bodyweight, and different metabolism.

Questions for you guys- is it possible I did something wrong? Was it just not strong enough? Was the problem that I didn't manage to hold it down long enough? Suggestions? Anything anyone wants to offer is appreciated!

 

[christian]

Was it just not strong enough? Was the problem that I didn't manage to hold it down long enough? Suggestions? Anything anyone wants to offer is appreciated!

Hello 3toedsloth,

Whilst i'm no Aya expert, it could be due to several factors. However it is common for Aya to work as an internal cleanser before the visuals part starts. However i'm still thinking you should have seen "something". Maybe yes, you needed to hold it down longer, or at least have split your dose into 2 for the first time. Maybe it wasn't boiled enough and didn't contain enough Chaliponga... Try Try again. Remember that normally Chakruna is the preferred admixture, and that nnDMT is far more visual than 5meodmt. This might also be the reason.

Kind regards
Christian.

 

[jamie]

^there has not been any 5meoDMT found in any of chaliponga on the market so far. Chaliponga contains more DMT than psychotria does..if you look at the results of the analysis endless did on chaliponga no 5meoDMT was present..this has been a long ongoing debate here becasue chaliponga can be somewhat darker and more powerful in some ways, but still it is quite visual and the main active does seem to be DMT. I have smoked chaliponga extracts as well as drunk lots of it and it is visual.

"I fasted for 36 hours prior, then had a small meal (a sandwich) about 8 hours prior to drinking so my stomach wouldn't be completely empty."

This can als really reduce the effects of the admixture..fasting really does not make the brew any more effective IMO..it only serves to drain make the experience extremely hard to deal with at times because your energy is so low..eating hours before hand is not going to change that..best to have an empty stomach but eat a small serving of fruit 30-60 minutes before hand. The DMT can get bound up in the ballbladder when you fast like that before you drink. Eating something can activate the DMT often..

Sounds like the vine was active anyway..

 

[jamie]

oh man I did not notice that you drank 100g of chaliponga?????!!!!!:shock:

That is WAY too much!

I have had chaliponga quite active at 5g before! There are a few different plants apparently on the market sold as "chaliponga"..not all of them diploteris..the leaves of one alicia vine are also sold as "chaliponga" and contain DMT..and doses for that admixture is apparently around 20g..

I really dont understand how you can have no effects from 100g of chaliponga! I would personally never ever drink that much of the chaliponga I have worked with! I suspect that if you had eating something after drinking you might have really been flattened..

edit..I see you took half that brew..50g chali is still alot..but 50g caapi is not necessarily that much when it comes to most vine..some vine is very very active at only 20g but that is rare. You have not taken enough vine. Leaf admixtures like chali are known to cause alot of purging, so that could have been part of the vomiting and not the vine necessarily.

 

[3toedsloth]

***UPDATE***
My mom tried her dose and had similar effects. only purging, no visions or anything. she managed to hold it down 55 minutes before vomiting. so i dont think the issue was that it wasn't held down long enough. and i think the caapi was good (we made a tea a week before that was REALLY good and extremely relaxing). I think the problem was probably the chaliponga.
******

so from what i'm getting from here- i think i'll try again with double the caapi and try chacruna this time instead of chaliponga. also, maybe i go with a darker caapi? i was using the yellow this past time.

i realize it may sound like i'm 'over doing it', but i'd rather over reach than continue to under reach. this stuff isn't super cheap, and it takes a lot of effort to boil everything down the appropriate way.

anyone have any specific recipes they use? i know there are threads for this, but if any of you have specific ingredients you use that you KNOW have good effects, i'd be open to trying them.

 

[3toedsloth]

Also-

Anyone know if any good sites to order from? I've got a couple, but if anyone has a particular one they could refer that they know has top quality ingredients, that would be appreciated.

 

[christian]

i think i'll try again with double the caapi and try chacruna this time instead of chaliponga. also, maybe i go with a darker caapi? i was using the yellow this past time.

Yello vine is the better one to start out with, black vine moreso for advanced drinkers, etc. If i was you, i'd start again, this time with 100g yellow caapi and 100g Chakruna. You want to break down the Caapi before boiling it and boil the plant matter for about 12 hours in total, leaving the stuff soak in between boils if done with a break, before reducing it to 2 medium strong shot glass sized doses. I think most suppliers are ok, but MH_UK is a reputable British supplier.

Good luck!8)

 

[3toedsloth]

okay. i've gone ahead and ordered yellow caapi again and this time i'm trying chacruna.

You want to break down the Caapi before boiling it

What's this mean exactly? I bought dried shredded vine. Is there something more I need to do with it before boiling?

the method i used before-

combine plant materials in a large pot
add water and boil 3 hours
strain into separate container
add water and boil 3 hours
strain into separate container
add water and boil 3 hours
strain into separate container

Combine 3 liquids in one pot
Reduce to drinkable doses.



Are you saying simply keep adding water, and dont separate after each boil?

 

[christian]

You want to break down the Caapi before boiling it

What's this mean exactly? I bought dried shredded vine. Is there something more I need to do with it before boiling?
Are you saying simply keep adding water, and dont separate after each boil?

There are many ways to prepare Ayahuasca. Your way seems fine, and the "keep adding water" way is another way that works fine. As long as the Caapi is shredded or broken up for ease of extraction, and the plants are boiled for sufficient time, then the end results should be a potent brew.

 

[jamie]

colors of Banisteriopsis caapi do not seem to mean that much at all from what I have been told by people who live in peru. I have some yellow caapi here that can put you on your back for hours at only 20g. No other color of caapi has ever even been near this potent for me..the real difference(in color I mean not potency) seems to be with other species of vine and even vine of a different genus..like red ayahuasca(some call this black) is actaully reported to be B.muricata and Black ayahuasca is a species of vine in the Alicia genus. Alot of vendors have black caapi, yellow caapi red caapi etc but I have been told by people who live in south america and spend alot of time with curranderos that this is all nonsense..all banisteriopsis caapi is ceilo and yellow and that is it according to them and nealy all vendors only carry B.caapi.

It still sounds like your main problem was not enough vine. Harmalas can be very relaxing and psychoactive at doses much lower than what will fully inhibit MAO. Just becasue you drank a tea with your mother that was relaxing does not really mean much of anything here. I have done this hundreds of times and if you dont hit that level for inhibition you are just wasting admixture.

If you want to be sure, than sure drink 100g of vine..you should have a decent experience at that level even without the DMT. If you just get more vine though and brew up 100g wanting to go deep rather than come up short, and you have some vine like I have here you will praying to god on your knees to save your ass..so be aware of that! Some vine is amazingly powerful while another vine you may need 5x the ammount to get anywhere near that level. This is why it is best to buy 1-2 kilos of vine at a time and get a feel for the vine you have. Same goes for admixture. I would never do it any other way.

I had to learn this the *VERY* hard way. Wanting to go super deep is one thing, but when you are laying on the floor vomiting non stop dying ever 2 minutes it is another thing completely.

Not trying to freak you out or put you off..just warning you that starting off getting to know the plants you are working with(and I mean every new batch) has it's advantages.

 

[christian]

i realize it may sound like i'm 'over doing it', but i'd rather over reach than continue to under reach. this stuff isn't super cheap, and it takes a lot of effort to boil everything down the appropriate way.

Yea, it's not reccomended to start out in Ayahuasca with a massive dose that will put you off the stuff for life. Start small, work your way up, etc.8)

 

[3toedsloth]

If you want to be sure, than sure drink 100g of vine..you should have a decent experience at that level even without the DMT.

I have read that some people prefer to brew the vine and the admixture separately, and drink the vine about 30 minutes prior to the admixture to be sure that the MAOs are completely inhibited. Has anyone experience with this method? Would you consider this a better way than ingesting them together?

 

[christian]

I have read that some people prefer to brew the vine and the admixture separately, and drink the vine about 30 minutes prior to the admixture to be sure that the MAOs are completely inhibited. Has anyone experience with this method? Would you consider this a better way than ingesting them together?

The benefits of this "seperate" way is that if you've properly prepared both vine and admixture, then you have a further plus of being able to ensure that your properly MAOI'D before drinking the admixture. This means that the admixture is unlikely to get broken down and wasted at all, and instead get absorbed, because of the inhibition factor. This isn't something you have much control of in a regular brew, especially if the admixture plants are of low quality. So with the "seperate" way the chance of a failed brew are minimised.
The seperate method is in general used more often by people who use Mimosa hostilis as their admix, due to the issue of removing the sediment which should not be drunk. However for an edge in being properly inhibited this is a winner for getting the best out of any admixture plants that may or may not be very potent. Plus, you can simply just drink the Caapi alone if you wish, which means greater freedom of choice. 8)

 

[Al Dimentiz]

You could try pharmahuasca. It works wonders for me. I use 100mg of harmalas freebase, and 50mg of DMT freebase.

I just combine those 2 and let them sit on OJ for at least 30 minutes. I get some really deep, highly visual experiences without the purge. And if I feel like I want to get deeper I just vaped some spice.

Some people will argue that traditional ayahuasca is better, but to me is really hard to learn anything when you are hugging the toilet for most part of the night.

The only way for me to take traditional ayahuasca again will be if I'm on Peru, or Brazil, with a real good shaman by my side to guide the journey. Other than that I'll just stick to Pharma, changa, or just vap spice.

Good luck, and happy journeys