first time extraction, non-active white crystals?

[endlessness]

NMT is not necessarily an oil at room temperature. Pure reference material NMT is white and flakey crystals. Possibly like other substances it crystalizes in different forms depending on solvent, temperature, movement and surface it crystalizes on.

In any case it is reported often that NMT doesn't crystallize easily and stays as an oil, which could have to do with what was mentioned above.

I'm not sure if NMT crystallizes with freeze precipitation at all, partially or totally. I haven't read of anybody testing the results of freeze precipitation of acacia extract with TLC or mass spec yet. But it does sound like less-active crystals is possibly NMT mixed in with DMT in unknown ratios. It's possible they crystallize together or that one comes before the other as the temperature drops or solvent evaps. I might test this soon.

 

[Synkromystic]

there is flavonoids present in acacia confuse as well..so maybe they can be extracted with some of these teks as well.

Is it known that NMT wont crystalize at room temperature when there is some DMT in there as well?

A very good question. Until recently, i was under the assumption that nmt would not/could not crysallize at room temp, because of my personal experiences, and all the experiences i have read on the nexus. However, i cant recall seeing any scientific data that would prove one way or the other. i have worked with confusa extensively over the last 2 years, but I had only recently tried the thick light tek where you leave the fully saturated solvent at room temp and the xtals crash out over the course of a few hours. This could be a method that allows the nmt to crystallize....where the solvent is left undisturbed(not moving around rapidly like under a fan), and the nmt not being forced out rapidly as in the case for freezing. It could be that the nmt likes to crystallize slowly undisturbed, and that in the process some dmt crystallizes in there as well. The crystals are very fluffy, but do hold their shape quite well, which i find quite odd if dmt has crystallized with the nmt. It can also explain the EXTREMELY large fluffy white crystal yields some people are getting

I doubt this next scenario is possible, but the thought has crossed my mind, so i will throw it out there anyways....... That somehow the nmt has made a chemical bond to the dmt while crystallizing in the process of dropping out of the solvent. It could explain why the crystals can keep their structure.

 

[Synkromystic]

I'm not sure if NMT crystallizes with freeze precipitation at all, partially or totally. I haven't read of anybody testing that with TLC or mass spec yet. But it does sound like less-active crystals is possibly NMT mixed in with DMT in unknown ratios. I might test this soon.

Endless. Regarding whether nmt crystallizes with freeze precipitation. I have seen nmt crystallize(at least partially) numerous times with freeze precip, only to change to an oil at room temp. The structure of the crystals are very round and small and smooth looking, and lots of them...when freeze preciping. It would be great if you could do some tests!

 

[nen888]

..NMT does crystalize, but usually a lot more slowly than DMT..it is usually 'flaky' (like endlessness described) or in shards, or is often seen as an oil which is slow to crystalize..and usually darkens in 'field conditions' ..it can co-crystalize with dmt
...i've never seen it 'fluffy' like the OP picture..

i'm not 100% convinced the fluffy crystals are NMT...
i'm wondering what the basifying agent was...? there have been a number of inactive white fluffy results using sodium carbonate..
the material may have been a mis-ID'd acacia, and the rapid growth of confusa sources concerns me in this regard..

 

[Synkromystic]

Nen, i have always basified with Naoh. Interesting what you say about misidentified acacia. It's possible, but I doubt it because i trust that my supplier friend is telling the truth, and he deals with friends in Hawaii, and has a friend in taiwan aslo, who has 15 years experience with fallen acacia trees in taiwan. I have not had a chance to bio-assay the Taiwan acacia confusa trunk bark xtals, BUT i have seen them, and they look exactly the same as the acacia confusa root bark xtals from Hawaii. So given the circumstances i find it highly unlikely that the tree is mis identified, at least in my case.

I tried to take a picture of my weak crystals, but the camera i have is not doing them justice...I will try again in the day, maybe that will help, but the pics are so blurry its not worth posting. My crystals are much fluffier than the OP's. They are long cylindrical needle like structures. I have seen a few pics around the nexus of exactly the same xtals as mine.

My full spectrum goo, does usually darken very fast, which i have read is due to the nmt content........ maybe nmt oxidizes very rapidly when it is not in crystal form? and when it slowly precipitates of a solvent, it doesnt have a chance to oxidize at all..

I am not 100% convinced(but close) that the fluffy crystals are nmt but they are definitely NOT Naoh or mixed with any naoh. In some of the yield reports i have read about the confusa crystals, the white crystal yields can be huge.....about 2%...which if it is confusa would mean most likely that it has to be some, or alot of nmt in there. I have consistently pulled 2% + of full spectrum goo that is HIGHLY active with the acrb from hawaii...and almost 2% from the actb from taiwan which is even more active than the acrb from hawaii i've had.

 

[EyeballToe]

All I know is the goo is Supa Fiya! works just as good if not better than the mhrb x-tals

 

[Synkromystic]

Yeah, the goo is amazing. That's all i really know for sure!

 

[nen888]

Nen, i have always basified with Naoh. Interesting what you say about misidentified acacia. It's possible, but I doubt it because i trust that my supplier friend is telling the truth, and he deals with friends in Hawaii, and has a friend in taiwan aslo, who has 15 years experience with fallen acacia trees in taiwan. I have not had a chance to bio-assay the Taiwan acacia confusa trunk bark xtals, BUT i have seen them, and they look exactly the same as the acacia confusa root bark xtals from Hawaii. So given the circumstances i find it highly unlikely that the tree is mis identified, at least in my case.

I tried to take a picture of my weak crystals, but the camera i have is not doing them justice...I will try again in the day, maybe that will help, but the pics are so blurry its not worth posting. My crystals are much fluffier than the OP's. They are long cylindrical needle like structures. I have seen a few pics around the nexus of exactly the same xtals as mine.

My full spectrum goo, does usually darken very fast, which i have read is due to the nmt content........ maybe nmt oxidizes very rapidly when it is not in crystal form? and when it slowly precipitates of a solvent, it doesnt have a chance to oxidize at all..

I am not 100% convinced(but close) that the fluffy crystals are nmt but they are definitely NOT Naoh or mixed with any naoh. In some of the yield reports i have read about the confusa crystals, the white crystal yields can be huge.....about 2%...which if it is confusa would mean most likely that it has to be some, or alot of nmt in there. I have consistently pulled 2% + of full spectrum goo that is HIGHLY active with the acrb from hawaii...and almost 2% from the actb from taiwan which is even more active than the acrb from hawaii i've had.

..thanks for your reports..
yeah the goo is almost certainly an nmt/dmt mix..and is good..

"long cylindrical needle like structures" is a perfect description of the NMT crystal form..perhaps fluffiness is not the key here, but rather shape..

Synkromystic..i was wondering what the OP's rudraksha's basifying agent was..
if you're using NaOH i agree there is very little chance of it being present in the crystals..
i'm just beginning to have my doubts about sodium carbonate in certain conditions

also, yes i agree that in Taiwan it's unlikely that a mis-ID would be going on..

i'm simply trying to understand what is going on with these reports of 'inactive' crystals..
a 50/50 nmt/dmt mix (which is the usual A. confusa profile in tests) should be quite active..even preferred by some to straight dmt..
it is possible that A. confusa has seasonal variation, but all lab tests to date have been consistent..
and certainly all material from Tawain i've ever heard of..

 

[Synkromystic]

i'm simply trying to understand what is going on with these reports of 'inactive' crystals..
a 50/50 nmt/dmt mix (which is the usual A. confusa profile in tests) should be quite active..even preferred by some to straight dmt..
it is possible that A. confusa has seasonal variation, but all lab tests to date have been consistent..
and certainly all material from Tawain i've ever heard of..

I'm a very curious also about these inactive crystals....in fact I have started posting on the nexus mainly to try to help figure this out....after 5 years of reading....lol. I rather enjoy a good discussion, so i might actually keep active on the nexus 8)

As far as sodium Carbonate goes, i really dont like the way that it reacts with vinegar, and being such a weak base, i only use it for harmalas.

I have wondered lately about the harvesting of young confusa trees, and what effect it might have on the structure of crystals(probably none, but a thought i have still entertained). It seems that it is a very common thing to do in hawaii. My suppliers friends do it, but only because they are contracted to remove the trees, since they are overgrowing certain areas..... So i imagine alot of the hawaiian confusa is actually from immature trees. I know those particular harvesters are providing quite a bit of bark to the community.

 

[nen888]

Synkromystic wrote:

I have wondered lately about the harvesting of young confusa trees, and what effect it might have on the structure of crystals

..this is a very good point, actually..

it was mentioned in the Acacia Analysis Thread that tests done by researcher J.J. showed that in the cases of phyllodes of Acacia phlebophylla and A. acuminata (both very reliable dmt species, in phyllodes) that in plants younger than 2 years the main alkaloid was actually simple Tryptamine..this also seemed to be the case for A. mucronata which i had tested..so from 3 species so far the evidence is younger specimens of known dmt species may not have much or any dmt..

 

[endlessness]

Contact me in another month or two regarding TLC kits to test things. In the meanwhile, why dont you purchase some ehrlich reagent to see if you're dealing with tryptamines at least?

Nen, you said NMT is like 3 times less potent than DMT by weight. So if someone got an Acacia that is like 70% NMT, and is smoking an ammount that usually works for DMT, isn't it possible that the person would only have a light experience?

Another possibility appart from NMT content is the smoking method that is flawed. The OP already admited that he got effects from what he thought were inactive crystals after changing method of smoking.... Maybe that's also your case, Synkromystic ?

 

[Synkromystic]

Endlessness. The thought had crossed my mind about smoking technique, so i tried pharmahuasca to see what it would be like. I took 40 mg of high purity rue xtals, followed 30 minutes later by 180 mg of high purity rue xtals which are harmaline dominant, and were in acetate form, followed by 100 mg of these weak fluffy acrb xtals 30 minutes later on a near empty stomach. I felt the harmalas very strongly, but my ''peak'' of the weak fluffy xtals was about 30 minutes after i ate them, lasted for about 30 minutes and consisted of a little brighter colors, a little more clarity of the vision, and reminded me very much of smoking the xtals.... So that pretty much convinced me that my smoking techniques were not at fault.

 

[Synkromystic]

Nen, Is it a known fact what the vaporizing temperature of nmt is? Could it be that it is more active with certain smoking techniques? though, My weak experience with the pharmahuasca leads me to discount that idea.......

 

[endlessness]

Did you try similar rue dosages with mimosa DMT to compare your pharma experiences?

Because otherwise it just might be that you're like me and orally in pharma you need a large dosage (200mg+) dmt for a good experience.

 

[Synkromystic]

It has been a while since i have taken pharmahuasca with mimosa dmt, so i cant make recent comparison, but 100 mg has never given me such little effects. It was barely noticable at all. I Think the only reason i noticed it was because i have become very very sensitive to my environment these days. I am positive that if i was still smoking cigarretes and ganja all day i never would have noticed it at all. I dont smoke either anymore and dont drink alcohol, or coffee, and eat very very healthy. So what i've noticed is that i am hyper sensitive to my environment now..... I will however find the time in the next month or 2 to try a 100 mg mimosa pharma experience, so i can make a closer comparison.