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First timer seeks advice

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McFuzz

Rising Star
EDIT - thanks so much for the responses, I'm sure it's n n dmt not 5 meo as originally hypothesized in this post. It was extracted from mimosa hostilis bark.

Hello, new member with first post here. I've read a lot on your forum (and other forums) about spice but I think I've reached the limit of what I can learn from absorption. I need some direct contact, some help. The first few paragraphs are background on SWIM. At the bottom is a plan for taking pharmahuasca that SWIM would like expert opinions on.

SWIM has some experience with psychedelics having taken acid a half dozen times over a couple years. SWIM was straight edge in high school and started smoking pot in college. When SWIM's best friend tried acid, at first it shocked and confused SWIM, but when SWIM tried acid with his friend it was truly a transformative experience. SWIM values the unique experiences psychedelics can bestow, and believes our experiences are all we really have. SWIM's favorite part of tripping is seeing what SWIM calls visual logic, which are visions that present a fundamental concept and whose visual progression creates an ideological progression.

SWIM has never tried psilocybin or any other psychedelics (one bad E pill that seemed like mostly meth...) but has always wanted to try DMT since SWIM first heard about it. SWIM is very, very excited about DMT, spending time reading forums and articles about it, watching videos on youtube, learning about historical ayahuasca, etc. SWIM knew SWIM wanted to try DMT when SWIM saw mathematicians and scientists talking about it on youtube (clips from the spirit molecule) as SWIM has a very mathematical, scientific mind. SWIM believes SWIM is doing it for the right reasons, and is capable of handling the journey. SWIM has been a nihilist from age 7 as has experienced ego death with and without drugs.

SWIM was nervous about ordering mimosa from Peru, and about performing the extraction. SWIM did not know about food-safe extraction without using lye until recently. SWIM believes SWIM would be capable of following a tek, but does not have the level of privacy necessary at this time.

So SWIM has been looking for extracted spice and recently found some. SWIM acquired 5 small capsules of what SWIM believes is freebase 5 meo dmt (yellowish pale powder). SWIM is not exactly sure of the quality and dosage.

SWIM attempted to smoke the spice in a bowl. He poured half a pill over some half smoked ash and bud, and then sprinkled a little more bud on top, covering most of the spice. SWIM attempted to smoke it, taking deep hard hits and holding it in. SWIM smelled the spice, but did not have much effect at all. SWIM waited an hour then poured the rest of the pill on the ash and residue in the bowl, sprinkled more bud on then smoked it again but experienced the same lack of effect. SWIM noticed small differences, including a slight rushing feeling while inhaling and exhaling the smoke and a feeling of an elevated heart rate for a few minutes after smoking, but did not experience any hallucinations or change in consciousness.

SWIM then made The Machine with a single serve Grand Marneir bottle and o 'cedar stainless steel pot scrubbers (burned off and used as the plug). SWIM poured one third of a pill on the top of the plug and held a lighter to the neck, melting the spice into the mesh plug. SWIM repeated this 2 more times until the entire pill's worth was inside the plug. SWIM noticed that the spice seemed to char slightly before melting, and that it bubbled and emitted smoke and some vapor before sinking into the mesh plug. SWIM knows he burned some in the bowl, and in The Machine, but especially since this is 5 meo, SWIM hoped to get enough of a dose. But SWIM didn't. SWIM attempted to smoke the machine, turning it upside down and holding a bic lighter to the neck to heat the metal plug and the spice inside. SWIM held the lighter for a long time and rotated the base and randomly would suck in from the hole in the bottle, never really noticing any change. SWIM believes he messed up, but doesn't want to try again and waste any more spice in the same way. SWIM thinks he needs someone IRL to show SWIM how to smoke it. SWIM really wanted to try freebase DMT first, for the shorter trip and 'clear' effects of the specific dmt drug which SWIM has heard so much about.

In researching the best ways to smoke it, SWIM discovered other methods, Changa and pharmahuasca mainly. Not wanting to waste any more, SWIM thinks SWIM should maybe try one of these other methods.

SWIM ordered 2 ounces of caapi leaves and 1 bottle of caapi copy. The caapi leaves came today, the copy has not arrived yet for SWIM.

Is smoking changa more foolproof than other methods, and can it be done in a regular (semi large) pot bowl? If SWIM loaded one capsule of spice onto a dried caapi leaf then shredded and smoked it, would the effects be similar to freebase? Would the trip potentially last much longer, if it was only a single dried caapi leaf used? Can 91% Isopropyl rubbing alcohol safely be used to make the changa?

SWIM also has a plan for pharmahuasca.
SWIM thinks he would try it like this:

take 100mg caapi copy dissolved in two cups of liquid.
wait 30 min.
empty one small capsule of freebase 5 meo dmt (unknown quality/quantity) and the remaining 100mg caapi copy in one cup water with 2 vitamin C tablets (or orange juice, does it need to be fresh squeezed?) and drink.
drink two cups water, eat plain toast.


Does that seem like a method that would work, be safe, and effective? SWIM is thin and 155 lbs. Would experts recommend either of these methods to SWIM, as they are, or with any tweaks? And what effects do experts think SWIM might experience from each of these, or other methods?

Sorry for the lengthy post, but SWIM is nervous having failed twice and really wants to experience the spice. Thanks for the great forum, all the information, and hopefully, some great responses!

p.s., SWIM would like to know if anyone has tried smoking caapi leaf with weed. Also, SWIM is under the impression that smoking caapi does not require SWIM to restrict SWIM's diet as the maoi's stay in the lungs vs the stomach.
 
Hi McFuzz,

Welcome to the Nexus. :D

Just really quick:

1.) See the wiki link in upper right hand corner for a well written Health & Safety section and some really good extraction teks.

2.) See the suppliers section in the forums for info on good suppliers.

3.) Beware of dosing DMT without a scale, regardless of form. Please, please, please stop until you procure an inexpensive jeweler's scale that can measure at the mg level. Eyedosing tryptamines is sketchy.

4.) Beware of purchasing capsules from strangers. I know you didn't make a statement of this but please beware. It's always best to extract your own. Wiki will help you with this. As well as suppliers section.

5.) Whoa! Why did you write 5-meo-DMT at the end there when discussing your pharma plan? STOP! if that is 5-meo-DMT you are in a totally different realm in terms of dosages and effects than with N,N, DMT. Please take a moment to clarify this point. Also, if it is N,N, DMT, please don't dose until you can measure your dose out.

I'm sure others will comment on the specifics of your pharma plan once you clarify the tryptamine. I misfire a lot with pharma and really like ayahuasca these days.

Anway, I'm really glad you found us and hope to see more posts from you. Don't hesitate to ask questions if they come up.

Welcome. :D
 
Yeah he said he believes what he has is 5 meo.

That is a totally different substance than NN DMT, and since you didnt extract it, you dont even know if it REALLY is even a tryptimine at all. If it is 5meo, like they said there is a whole different ballpark of dosage. It takes a lot less 5meo for effects than it does NN. If i were you, i would definelty NOT start with 5-meo. You want NN-DMT that is what you have been reading about...
I suggest you just order some bark and extract your own if you are really interested, but best of luck either way in what you decide to do!
 
Thanks for the reply! about number 5...

Because there is no point not being honest with you, yes, SWIM did get capsules from a friend of a friend. SWIM's friend has done spice from the FOF. SWIM believes it is 5 meo dmt as he asked the FOF if this was the kind that lasted 15 minutes, or 45 minutes, and he said 45 minutes. SWIM saw the ingredients list from the FOF for his extraction but does not remember all of them. He knows it was extracted from mimosa (bark I believe).

Reading up on it now, some people say there is no 5 meo dmt in mimosa bark, only n n dmt. SWIM wanted N N DMT anyway, but because the FOF said it lasted 45 min he believed it was freebase 5 meo. The FOF also said it might take 5 minutes before taking off, which seems the opposite of what people say about n n dmt where they drop the hot bowl in their laps...

Maybe it's impure N N DMT? Maybe that would explain why SWIM was having trouble breaking through from smoking it, he probably needed to get a bigger dose in his lungs.

I understand this is not an ideal situation, but SWIM still has 3 capsules and really wants to break through. SWIM can contact the FOF to get more information if there is something I left out that would help the experts here.

What is the best way to determine what SWIM has, including potential questions for the FOF?

P.S, SWIM would love to, and thinks SWIM will eventually do SWIM's own extractions, but it is not possible currently because of SWIM's living situation. I understand you have a strong ideology about spice on this board and that there are good reasons for it. But SWIM would like to able to try spice and to get your advice if you can look past SWIM's indiscretion.

Also, I have read about both nn dmt and 5 meo dmt, though admittedly I have no experience and no real knowledge beyond SWIM's recent failed attempts.
 
Hmm, well if your FOAF is sure it was extracted from mimosa then it's definately N,N, DMT.

One definitive test is to buy a scale, measure out a 2-5 mg dose and smoke it all in one big hit then hold for 10-20 seconds. If you get strong effects it's 5-meo. If you barely feel a thing it's N,N.

Your smoking technique appeared ineffective to be honest. If you have any extra money I'd recommend in investing in a glass vaporgenie pipe for the future. Yes, changa will make your smoking problems easier. Convert to changa then pack a bowl in your pot pipe and smoke it up. Remember you need to take as much as you can on the first hit, hold as long as you comfortably can and do your best to consume the entire dose in 1-2 minutes flat. Otherwise tolerance will defeat your attempt to achieve effects.
 
Thanks Pandora. The FOAF did the extraction and has done it before, and when asked if he used mimosa bark he replied along the lines of, "yeah, you have to use that," implying he was unaware of other plants high in tryptamines. When smoking changa, do you need to worry about trying to vaporize the spice, or can you smoke it regularly? Do you know if 91% isopropyl rubbing alcohol works for changa and if it's okay to use? I read that it's fine to use denatured alcohol for this, but before SWIM does it I'd like to ask more people.

Also these leaves seem pretty big, one might be more than a bowlful. Should SWIM break it up and only use half a leaf, or maybe make the changa then only smoke part of it to start? Will it be much stronger with just the caapi leaf and no other alkoloids being added? SWIM wouldn't like to miss again, but also read how much stronger it can be with the MAOI so maybe he shouldn't worry.

SWIM knew about the tolerance issue. SWIM knew a lot, in theory, before failing.
 
He keeps mentioning capsules...

Perhaps he has some form of DMT salt and not freebase DMT of any kind at all. (DMT Fumerate or Acetate salts are good for oral ingestion with a RIMA, but can be converted to a smoalkable freebase form a number of ways)

Find out exactly what the FOAF gave you.

Not to be a nudge, but you should NEVER attempt to consume a substance you are not 100% sure what it is. Even then, you should do an alergy test. Then a super light dose... and then get around to going for the brass ring. Please do not rush into this. Take your time and be smart. You can wait a few days to have your world shattered. Trust me.
 
IPA works for changa though I prefer acetone as it dries faster.

I highly recommend pre-grinding (use an herb grinder) all herbs into similar sized pieces before making changa.

Vaporization is ideal and the glass vaporgenie is perfect for vaporizing changa. But, sometimes to get a hit in crude equipment, you just have to burn it. In my experience with freebase and changa, I had the best chance of vaporizing on the very first hit and it all went downhill straight into burning after that. You can roll changa into a joint laying some herb down on the paper, then the changa on top so it forms a middle tube surrounded by plain herb surrounded by the paper. Theory is that heat from the cherry precedes the burning herbs to vape the spice. Bunk theory in my opinion and experience but worth mentioning. You may just have to burn it to dose it correctly.

If you cannot get a vaporgenie you could try to get a meth or crack style vaporization pipe to use with freebase. I did better (though I still burned a lot) with these.

Heavy maoi content in changa seems to lengthen the entrance into hyperspace as well as lengthen the overall duration of the trip for me.
 
Thanks for the good advice, hyperspace fool. I mention capsules, but that's just what the spice came in, it was meant to be smoked.

I am thinking about trying pharma though, but not in the capsule because I read it's less nauseating to dissolve it in acid first.

Thanks again Pandora for your reply. Can you elaborate a little on this part? "I highly recommend pre-grinding (use an herb grinder) all herbs into similar sized pieces before making changa."

I thought SWIM would put the whole leaf in the alcohol with the spice dissolved. I didn't know about pregrinding. So, you grind the leaf, then put it in the alcohol with the dissolved spice, and then you wait for that mush to dry? Haha, this is the type of thing I miss only getting my knowledge from reading forum posts and having no real experience. When people say caapi leaf, I picture a literal leaf... I didn't think to pregrind.
 
There is a subforum on changa I believe. This site really is worth taking a good look around. It's a treasure trove of data. But to put it briefly:

I like to use a total of one gram of herbs for every gram of DMT in changa.

First I get all the different herbs I want. Typically I use blue lotus, passionflower, banisteriopsis caapi leaves, mullein, lavendar and pepppermint. I clean out any seeds, stems, hard parts, anything that is not directly leaf or flower, etc. Next, procure an inexpensive herb grinder (the kind you can buy from head/smoke shops - just ask for a grinder or herb grinder, you can also purchase online - I use a fancy one for cannabis to catch the "pollen" but for changa herbs I use a basic, cheap one). Using the grinder, grind up all of your herbs so that everything is even consistency. Little bits - the consistency of marijuana shake or small pieces of tobacco. In other words, the consistency of a smoking blend.

If you use more than one herb combine them all together and mix well

Dissolve your DMT fully in pre-warmed solvent. I usually use a hot water bath from the sink and put about 40-50 mL of acetone in a separate container inside of this hot water bath. Thus the acetone in my container (usually a tall shot glass) warms safely.

Add the DMT and stir for a minute or two. Get as much as possible to dissolve. If it is stubborn, add more solvent until it all dissolves.

Now, pour your pre-ground and cleaned herbs into this shot glass full of DMT saturated solvent. Stir well. I usually put it in a window with a fan to push the solvent/air out and let it sit a few hours. It evaps a little bit.

Next I pour it into a pyrex dish but I think others use smaller containers. I tip my dish so that everything concentrates down into a corner. I put a fan (on low) on this in front of a window, seal the room with a towel and exit. I check frequently and after the visible solvent is gone I remove the fan but continue to mix and chop my changa mix with razor blades.

I let it continue to evaporate, mixing and chopping periodically for a few days. I tend towards overkill but I don't want to smoke solvent. Now I give it a good smell and if it smells like herbal DMT without solvent I know I'm good. I usually give it another day or two to be sure.

Then I vape it using my glass vaporgenie.
 
Awesome, thanks again!

SWIM just met with the FOF (who is becoming more of a friend) and is now sure what SWIM has is n n dmt from mimosa hostilis bark. SWIM plans on trying changa and will post with results!
 
By the way, this is a super secure site with a domain name originating outside of USA. If you want, it's okay to let SWIM go.

Couple of years ago SWIM fell apart into little meaty pieces when she smoked too much DMT. Her cat ate them. I remain as the extractor and regular consumer of this entheogenic molecule. :D
 
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