Frequent DMT use and addiction potential

[Cbswe]

The general belief today is that DMT (or any other hallucinogen) does not have addictive potential.

However, Strassmans studies shows that ingesting DMT raises beta-endorphin levels. Beta-endorphins are μ-opioid receptor agonists - the same receptor that gets activated during opioid use. And indeed, users frequently report the euphoric effects during and after a DMT trip.

Would it be possible that long term frequent DMT use could actually cause addiction?
After all, getting addicted to opioids usually takes time - but once the addiction is developed, it is extremely hard to undo!

People haven't had access to large amounts of DMT the same way before as the do now thanks to darknet. An occasional DMT trip every now and then would probably not be enough to get addicted, but nowadays it is possible to use it on a daily basis.

I saw a related discussion on bluelight, but they didn't discuss the implications of a potential addictive effect.

If this is not the case, I think it is quite interesting that something can create the same kind euphoria as morphine and heroin without any side-effects.

 

[SpartanII]

DMT Addiction, Withdrawal, Depression - DMT Discussion - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus

Not sure if you can post there yet, being a new member and all, but you may find useful info.

IMO, addiction can happen with any strong ego-desire, even if that ego desires to be ego-less.

 

[TGO]

IMO, addiction can happen with any strong ego-desire, even if that ego desires to be ego-less.

^^^That just blew my mind! :d :lol:

Well said, SpartanII!

 

[SpartanII]

IMO, addiction can happen with any strong ego-desire, even if that ego desires to be ego-less.

^^^That just blew my mind! :d :lol:

Welcome to the club. Ha!8)

 

[Complexity]

As far as I know if beta-endorphin levels raise significantly addiction takes place.
But we should not immediately jump from addictive to bad.

I mean, morphine is addictive because it raises beta-endorphin, and many could agree that morphine addiction is bad. (I agree)
But even physical exercise raises beta-endorphin e so we become addicted to it, but many could say this is healthy. (I generally agree)

If DMT raises beta-endorphin and so it's addictive it's still up to decide wheter that's bad or not.

 

[tseuq]

Offtopic:

IMO, addiction can happen with any strong ego-desire, even if that ego desires to be ego-less.

^^^That just blew my mind! :d :lol:

To me, it is just so beautiful.

So just now, between all these ego-loss-desires and ideas of going somewhere when there is only no(w)where, the question arises how I "integrate", I live, I take care of, I love, I ultimately create.

tseuq

 

[Leithen]

Are we speaking of physical addiction where the user will get sick without the substance?
Or of mental addiction where the user craves the substance?

Of course a mental addiction seems possible with just about anything, especially mind altering drugs. But kids can get addictied to video games and food and just about everything out there. What would make DMT exempt from this? I say nothing.

As far as physical addiction I dont have a good answer. I can say from personal experience if there is one, it takes a while to develop. I have yet to experience any sort of withdrawl, however ive hardly done it to the point where it would even be possible.

 

[TheCaterpillar]

See our mind is made up of drugs so all things can be addictive. Like workaholics when you do a good job your mind knows it and gives you a little dopamine so workaholics get addicted to success(aka dopamine). Or buddhists when you meditate long enough you get serotonin, oxytocin, and endorphins. So essential all things you love are because of neurotransmitters and DMT is no exception it depends on your personality but if you love the hell out of it and its fun it can be addictive. Just be aware of that and make sure that you're not spending all your time focused on what you love and its not an addiction unless it causes you problems.

 

[Just Say Know]

For me the effects are powerful enough that i personally couldn't use the drug long enough to develop physical addiction or for my mind to be dependent on it to escape the sometimes harsh realities of life. For me it's quite the intense mystery beyond any capacity to understand fully what happens and transcends the mystical and spectacular. I think that studying how it effects us in different ways is still important. I think i'd look at how DMT changes the behavior and psychology of a person if in any way. Also what DMT does to people in different long term as well as short term environments and settings.

 

[Just Say Know]

I'm going to add something to this conversation: Currently on Erowid's DMT experience reports there are a total of 371 accounts of what people have gone through with DMT. There are 139 General's, 125 first times, 98 Combinations, 32 Retrospective/Summary's, 12 Preperation/Recipes, 46 Difficult Experience's, 13 Bad Trips, 3 Health Problems, 4 Trainwreck's/Trip Disasters, 104 Glowing Experiences, 79 Mystical Experiences, 3 Health Benefits, 1 "Families" (i guess family related experiences?), and 1 Medical Use report. But not a single Addiction and Habituation report; not one.

That doesn't necessarily mean anything. It's just correlation. But... Not a single report on DMT causing addiction and/or habituation, on Erowid at least.

Some of them are in multiple categories and clearly more than 371 DMT experiences have occurred over the time of its existence in regard to a relationship with altering the consciousness of conscious beings. In my opinion the definition of addiction is when something decreases the quality of life on a regular basis and that such disquality can only be relieved through an action that seems to improve things; whether it's a line of coke, the next cigarette, the chemical release of various activities (self harm, spicy food, hugs, sex, exercise) or 4 regular blissfully ignorant hours of World Of Warcraft, binge-watching Netflix, reading, etc or any other behavior compulsive enough to influence an escape from whatever it is that seems to be troubling the individual.

I think that everything can be addictive. But DMT is powerful and can hyperslap the crap out of you through abusing it. In a way i think it self regulates. I'm not going to say that DMT isn't addictive or habituable but i am very skeptical that it will ever cause a serious problem in regard to my above definition of addiction. Then again, i notice that it has lifted me in my dark times and does improve the quality of life when i have it around. But i feel that the quality of life gained can last far longer than other "fixes" like say nicotine or Orange Is the New Black.

Honestly i don't think i have much else to add. Wish i did because i am questioning my own bias and skepticality but i feel that anything more would be skewed and preconcieved with a sense of ignorance and blanket statmentery.

 

[drfaust]

Opioid medications function by mimicking natural endorphins, competing for receptor binding. In the acute setting, exogenous opiates inhibit the production of endogenous opiates while in the chronic setting, exogenous opiates inhibit the production of both endogenous opiates and mu-opioid receptors. Risks associated with chronic opiate use include opioid induced hyperalgesia, tolerance and addiction. In the future, we hope to understand the dynamics between beta-endorphins and non-opioid pain medications to offer patients maximal pain management with minimal associated risk.

Understanding Endorphins and Their Importance in Pain Management

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

No, endogenous beta-endorphins are not addictive. In fact, endogenous beta-endorphins, if you can "produce" them are nearly the opposite of "addiction", if I can put it so crudely.

Note that opioids have both acute and chronic effects, depending on usage. Opioids mimic a much more flexible and ephemeral endogenous set of compounds in the nervous systems. They replace them, and the body compensates and becomes "dependent" on its new friends and their chronic presence.

A release of endogenous beta-endorphins has no such effect. I, for example, do cold mountain stream dipping regularly which produces loads of endorphins. It is a blissful experience. But I end up more flexible and less "dependent" than before.

I'm not addicted to "cold water". I enjoy it.

The degree that one worries about "cold water" addiction is probably an index of how little "cold water" dipping you have done or perhaps it is an index of how one's endogenous endorphin game is not doing so well?

I'd expect that the effects of a transient selective 5HT agonist (DMT) may include in some persons the release of endogenous endorphins, but I'd expect that to be secondary and not at all "addictive".

The use of "addiction" language is way too crude in my opinion when it comes to acutely administered drugs of any kind. It is especially crude in reference to any tryptamine.

 

[drfaust]

However, Strassmans studies shows that ingesting DMT raises beta-endorphin levels. Beta-endorphins are μ-opioid receptor agonists - the same receptor that gets activated during opioid use. And indeed, users frequently report the euphoric effects during and after a DMT trip.

Note that morphine et al. reduce the amount of beta-endorphins when acutley administered. This is the opposite.

It seems that many "stressors", including trauma, will increase beta-endorphin levels as a response. This has nothing to do with "addiction" at all.