Giving to beggars - helpful or harmful?

[Nydex]

[[EDIT: I've removed most of this post, as it didn't accurately represent the idea behind it, and it also contained some highly controversial and partially untrue information]]

I've been delaying this post for a while now due to some things getting in the way, but now I feel like it's time to talk about it.

We've all pretty much been in a situation where we pass by a beggar on the street - whether it's a healthy person that believes life shat on their head and put them into this position with or without reason, or a physically/mentally impaired one - we've all seen one.

I've given money and food to people like that, but I've also walked past them even though I have been in a financial position to lend a helping hand. Now why does that bug me so much is the topic of that post.

When you see a beggar on the street, and you have the capability to give them money or food, are you really doing them good, or the opposite? That is the question that tears me apart from the inside every time I find myself in that situation.

'Of course it helps!' some of you would directly say. But my appeal to you is to hold that thought back for a moment and think again. How are you helping them? Not in the short-run, but in the long one. Yes, you might satiate their hunger or thirst for a little while, but what is the effect of that action in the long-run? What happens in their mind?

Maybe what happens is "Whew, I lived through this day as well." Next day, same situation. Someone feeds them, they survive. Rinse and repeat. But what help is that for them? How do you help them realize their self-destructive ways? What will push them over the line and make them take action - go to a work center, find a job, participate in a charity educational event, help out some people for some money with a task? From where I see it, helping them survive yet another day of slumber and inactivity does as much good for them, as it does bad.

Hence, an emotional paradox gets stirred up inside of me every time - I want to help that person, make them feel better by giving them money or food, but am I really helping them, or hurting them? Especially when it comes to drug addicts.

The cities of Depok and Jakarta in Indonesia for example have a law that prohibits people to give money to beggars. Given that those cities are enormous, that law aims at two things:
1 - Promote creativity and increase incentive in beggars to find a job, or create one. In other words to better their lives since they will get no allowances from strangers anymore.
2 - Decrease overpopulation in the big cities, as those beggars will seek what they want in other places where that law is not in action.

There are downsides of such a law of course, but I certainly believe it's a reasonable law and maybe gradually implementing it everywhere might prove a good thing.

I would love to hear from you, my dear friends. What is your take on the above? Do you give to beggars, or not? Why? What do you think the effects of giving to beggars are?

May Mother Nature shine it's blissful light on your path forever.

Much love and respect.

 

[null24]

I have not made through your entire posts but only the point descriptions. As a formally homeless person ( not a beggar however) i find the entire thing to be highly educated (read:academic) and extremely subjective to a priveleleged world view that sees itself as "woke".

You have no experience with any of the things you refer to apparentlyhowever well read and however many videos you've seen on the subjects. Hell you may have a degree in socio economic principles relating to sociology and anthropology, i really don't care, education does not always stand in for knowledge.

I neither have time at the moment nor much desire to get into it right now-I'm on my way to my paid service position-but if you want to give somebody something, give it to them. That's it.

Nice picture, did you get that from of of those Geehovah witness magazines they leave on the bus? It's really touching.

EDIT: everyone deserves compassion. It's hard to hate someone whose story you know.

 

[Nydex]

I have not made through your entire posts but only the point descriptions. As a formally homeless person ( not a beggar however) i find the entire thing to be highly educated (read:academic) and extremely subjective to a priveleleged work view.

You have no experience with any of the things you refer to apparentlyhowever well read and however many videos you've seen on the subjects. Hell you may have a degree in socio economic principles relating to sociology and anthropology, i really don't care, education does not always stand in for knowledge.

I neither have time at the moment nor much desire to get into it right now-I'm on my way to my paid service position-but if you want to give somebody something, give it to them. That's it.

Nice picture, did you get that from of of those Geehovah witness magazines they leave on the bus? It's really touching.

null24, with all due respect, homeless is not the same as a beggar, and you know it. But that is not at all the point of my post. I can't force you to read it, nor I want to offend you in any way. You yourself decide how to spend your time.

Good luck with your paid service position, and much love.

 

[endlessness]

As mentioned in the chat, I know you mean well but I strongly disagree with your idea of why people are poor. Saying people are in control of their finances always (or now 'most of the time' ) is condescending to those who work their ass off and can't succeed for a variety of reasons. It is a very simplistic view that ignores many other different reasons why someone can be poor, and it goes into the territory of 'victim blaming'.

As null24, I've also been homeless even having done everything in my power to get out of that situation (thankfully I had someone to take me in their house for that duration so I didn't have to live in the streets, but if I didnt luckily have this network of support, I might as well have been begging in the street). Many different factors lead up to that, but regardless, I know I'm not an exception. As snozz would probably tell you better than myself, the economic system we live in is predicated in the exploitation of people/countries/environment. Do you honestly think that if everybody tried hard, suddenly there would be no more poor classes, there would be enough room for everybody to be wealthy?

Your cherry picked example of google CEO is a logical fallacy, anecdotal evidence doesn't necessarily support your claim.

Whether you should give money or not, it's up to you to decide, based on how you feel about that person. Sometimes you may save someone's live, give them something to eat, sometimes you may be supporting some mafia that uses 'fake beggars' to gather money for some criminal. You will have to rely on your gut instincts and decide. There are other ways you can help, sometimes sitting down and talking to a person for a moment, or just smiling at them, may be incredibly important for them. You can also donate your time in shelters or other volunteering activities, this can touch many people's lives. All of these things can help... But of course unless we can somehow make the system we live in more fair, we can be sure that this will continue.

 

[Nydex]

Both of you make some very fair points. I admit I took the examples too far and made them even unrealistic. I have of course omitted many perspectives and not taken into account many different factors, partially because I myself haven't been in such a situation.

I will most likely edit my post and remove a big part of it, as it feels cluttered and does not really reflect what I wanted to say with it.

Thank you for the precious input!

 

[RhythmSpring]

It's a mixed bag--and totally depends on each individual beggar. There are some beggars out there that I can tell are not being honest with themselves or the people around them when they claim the inability to provide for themselves. Others are actively trying, or legitimately hurt (lost a leg in an accident, had no safety net, etc.)

So I guess Null24 hit the nail on the head--if you feel like giving, there's probably a reason for it. And if you feel bothered by their request, listen to that--there's probably a reason for that feeling, too.

 

[Auxin]

Half of the situation is being ignored here. People are only talking about themselves helping beggars.
What about beggars helping you?
Theyre giving you a chance to practice generosity and connect with another human in a very direct way in your daily life. Helping other people doesnt just help them.
I give to the homeless because it helps both of us.
When I was a teenager in a big city sometimes I'd buy a sack full of cheeseburgers and go hand them out the homeless and actually talk to them and I was better off for it.

My towns police just put out a request that people not "encourage" panhandling by giving to beggars and instead give any money to the available christian charities that force people to pray for food and soap. I found that offensive.

 

[dragonrider]

An even more difficult question is: if you see child-beggars, should you warn the police?

If you see a child begging for money, you can be 99.9% sure that the child is the 'property' of a gang. The money they produce goes to the criminals who force these childeren into such a life.

In most countries, or at least in most of the countries that are often being refered to as 'nanny-states', there is no need for any child to be homeless. And in these countries, any child would without any doubt be way better of when the government would place it in a foster family, than out on the street.

 

[dragonrider]

An even more difficult question is: if you see child-beggars, should you warn the police?

If you see a child begging for money, you can be 99.9% sure that the child is the 'property' of a gang. The money they produce goes to the criminals who force these childeren into such a life.

In most countries, or at least in most of the countries that are often being refered to as 'nanny-states', there is no need for any child to be homeless. And in these countries, any child would without any doubt be way better of when the government would place it in a foster family, than out on the street.

I think i would definately warn the police myself, if i saw a child begging for money btw.

But i happen to live in one such 'nanny-state', where the government is not always evil and institutions are actually functioning most of the time (wich, though off-topic, is probably why the americans hate us so much, as we are the living proof of nanny-states being way superior to the dog-eat-dog type of society they tend to consider being the holy grail of human coexistance) .

 

[null24]

Auxin knows a little something. It's called loving kindness.

Dragonrider, i don't know about a third world country, that might be a common sight, but in the US i most certainly would. And depending on the circumstance seeing someone begging with a child in their presence may deserve a call to CPS.

 

[Nydex]

Hmm, yes, I live in a country where a child begging is a common sight. Worst of it all? Police or CPS do absolutely nothing about it. Those children are considered part of a minority population in my country and are treated as "special", but begging children on the streets seem to not disturb them at all. It's all about who votes for them in the end tbh. I don't want to drive this discussion in a political direction thought.

 

[dragonrider]

Auxin knows a little something. It's called loving kindness.

Dragonrider, i don't know about a third world country, that might be a common sight, but in the US i most certainly would. And depending on the circumstance seeing someone begging with a child in their presence may deserve a call to CPS.

Well, you know, some people in america are so anti-gubbamint that i would not be even a bit surprised if someone would start to argue that it's always better for the childeren themselves, in any case, to live a homeless life on the streets than to be placed under gubbamint care.

 

[hug46]

When you see a beggar on the street, and you have the capability to give them money or food, are you really doing them good, or the opposite?

Put yourself in the position of a beggar and decide whether you would like a passing stranger to give you money and you will have your answer.

Hence, an emotional paradox gets stirred up inside of me every time - I want to help that person, make them feel better by giving them money or food, but am I really helping them, or hurting them? Especially when it comes to drug addicts.

I can't see anything wrong with giving money to drug addicts.

 

[Northerner]

I've lived in a country with a true poverty class before. There's only so much you can give though before you make yourself a target for crime in that situation.
I would buy a bag of whatever fruit was in season and give a piece to child and cripple beggars at traffic lights. There was little more I could do. The tide was just too big and my means too modest. I would not give to healthy and strong adults.

I dunno what this means. I don't care for beggars here in this current country. The government provides enough for basic food, clothers and shelter already. I understand psychological problems can make it difficult for people to integrate and even maintain a place to sleep and eat, but once again my modest means doesn't allow me to assist. And I really don't think any amount of money will really help them.

I don't give money for drugs either. I don't mind sharing mine but I'm not forking out for other people to get high without me. :lol:

IMHO there's a line you can cross from being a carer to a victim when giving to beggars.

 

[obliguhl]

1. Some people want to live a free life on the street. Why not support that if you can?
2. It is not only about giving money, but also about making a human connection with someone who might feel isolated.
3. Many cultures are setup for people without priviledge and/or support/luck to fail.
4. Living on the street does NOT equal being lazy so giving them money does not necessarly deter them from "living a normal live" from a rich mans standpoint.

The cities of Depok and Jakarta in Indonesia for example have a law that prohibits
people to give money to beggars.

Ah, so that explains why there are so many crazy people in Jakarta trying to kill you.

 

[dragonrider]

To be honest, it depends on my mood whether i give something or not, or how much money i have on me.

I live in a small town with just a small amount of homeless people, and so you do get to know them a little. Some of them are nice people who just got hurt in life, beyond repair. There was a lady who was well known, and when she died, there where actually quite some people who showed up at her funeral. She was liked by many people. But somehow she just couldn't cope with whatever it was that got her this way.

But when i lived in amsterdam it was different. I didn't know the homeless people there, because there where just too many. And they had a different look in their eyes. They looked more afraid and paranoid. They where surprised if you would talk to them.
Sometimes they thought i was a socialworker or an undercover cop, just because i aproached them, or told them they looked sick or tired.

City live comes at a price, i guess.

 

[Auxin]

...If you see a child begging for money, you can be 99.9% sure that the child is the 'property' of a gang...

Assuming your even remotely close to reality I'm glad I dont live where you do.
As a teenager in a city of 3 million I knew quite a few homeless kids and underage prostitutes. None of them, not a single one, had any connection to a gang.
Some left home because they were being beaten, raped, or neglected, some were kicked out for being gay, some were homeless with their parents, some were hooking for drug money while others were hooking to buy food, but none were slaves.

 

[endlessness]

Agreed, Auxin, that has been my experience too.

 

[dragonrider]

...If you see a child begging for money, you can be 99.9% sure that the child is the 'property' of a gang...

Assuming your even remotely close to reality I'm glad I dont live where you do.
As a teenager in a city of 3 million I knew quite a few homeless kids and underage prostitutes. None of them, not a single one, had any connection to a gang.
Some left home because they were being beaten, raped, or neglected, some were kicked out for being gay, some were homeless with their parents, some were hooking for drug money while others were hooking to buy food, but none were slaves.

Yeah, it's tragic.

It's the result of romania and bulgaria joining the EU.
In bulgaria and romania, these gangs have probably existed for quite a while. When these countries joined the EU, those gangs could move through europe freely. And as people in western europe tend to have more money with them than people in romania and bulgaria, these gangs have moved their busines to western europe.
They travel around to avoid being caught. When the police starts getting complaints about it, they have already moved to another city or country. When they see uniformed police, they quickly pack their stuff and go elsewhere.
You don't see a lot of them. Luckily it's a rare phenomenon. But for local authorities it is incredibly difficult to tackle.

 

[Nydex]

Dragonrider - spot on!

I live in Bulgaria and I can confirm sights such as a begging child are very frequent here, sadly.

I have numerous experiences where a child comes to me begging for money, and instead of giving them money, I take them to a nearby store to buy them some food, but you'd be surprised how often they respond with "No, my mother told to get only money, nothing else." and they actually do not want me to get them food. One time I even purchased food and insisted that the kid has it, instead it just turned around and left without taking the food.

This makes me think how sick do you have to be to use your child (or any child at all) to beg for money and prohibit them from taking anything else. Ridiculous stuff.