Research Haphazard Oral Administration Thread (Salvine Tek)

[blig-blug]

For the therapeutic angle, what about "Salvicine"? Sounds both like a medicine and like "medicine", and could be considered to come from SALVIa and CholINE.

There's a DMT "Lextek", so it would be better to avoid that name.

Of the other ones, I like "Salvine" and "SaLEX". Although "SaLEX" would be pronounced similarly to "salix", which means willow tree in Latin.

I should mention that the name "divinorum" for Salvia divinorum is incorrect Latin, it should have been "divinatorum". You can read Hoffman talk about that here.

"Pastora" means shepherdess in Spanish, but that's not necessarily a problem.

 

[stuartroelke]

I should mention that the name "divinorum" for Salvia divinorum is incorrect Latin, it should have been "divinatorum". You can read Hoffman talk about that here.

Excellent reading material! Thank you for this.

I will avoid “LEX Tek,” and Salvicine is apparently a different compound derived from a plant.

Only documentation I could find about “Salvine” is that folks occasionally misspell “Salvia” or “salvinorin” with “salvine,” and that it is no longer a common name in Italy or France.

 

[stuartroelke]

I've posted a new version under the name "SALVINE TEK" / "Salvine" because folks who have had vertigo were apprehensive about taking a substance of the same name. Additionally, I'm trying to make it more approachable when recommended by a facilitator / guide to a journeyer.

There are additional updates as well, so please read through again if you are contemplating taking Salvine.

 

[Traged]

off topic, why do salvia leaves start to dry/blacken at the edge and then fall off?

 

[stuartroelke]

off topic, why do salvia leaves start to dry/blacken at the edge and then fall off?

Likely needs more humidity and/or less airflow. Too much humidity and too little airflow will cause the leaves to rot, though.

 

[stuartroelke]

Somehow I had never watched this video—a huge deal if true. I mentioned in Salvine Tek that naloxone likely wouldn’t work, but here is someone saying (within the first few minutes of a presentation) that it did prevent salvia trips in human trials. Therefore, this is the next thing I will be testing. Could mean that Salvine is the first long-duration psychedelic that is also reversible with an over-the-counter drug.

 

[stuartroelke]

Unfortunately naloxone (Narcan) does not work to end a Salvine trip. Therefore, it is especially crucial that folks do not try this tek with heroic doses of extract.

Getting "Narcanned" was also not pleasant; bitter, burning medicine dripping down the back of my throat during a salvia experience made for a uniquely uncomfortable afternoon. It was worth it to finally get an answer to that age-old question, though.

 

[blig-blug]

Unfortunately naloxone (Narcan) does not work to end a Salvine trip

Thank you for experimenting and reporting! This may be valuable anecdotal information for the people who research the pharmacology of salvia.

 

[TheGreenPhantom]

@stuartroelke Have you tried your tek with coleus blumei? (I've read that it has similar compounds to "Sally.")

 

[stuartroelke]

@stuartroelke Have you tried your tek with coleus blumei? (I've read that it has similar compounds to "Sally.")

Great minds think alike! I started growing Coleus scutellarioides (new name for it) as soon as the tek worked. It’ll be a bit before I can make 4g of dried and powdered Coleus leaf “matcha”—I’m not even sure if the cultivar I picked up would still have any of the active compounds due to multiple centuries of aesthetic breeding.

If 4g doesn’t work, I’ll scale up to 8g, then 12g, then I might try incorporating into Salvine in the off chance that the experience is positively altered.

I haven’t gotten nauseous yet, but I’d imagine ~20g of leaf powder might get me there? I’m currently afraid of using much more than 8g of Salvia divinorum powder with Salvine—it can get pretty intense.

 

[stuartroelke]

Coleus progress pic—can't wait to get at least 4g of dried leaf in order to test with the Salvine method. Not sure what variety this is, but my best guess is "Red Coat" or "Rustic Orange"

Today is my last experiment before another important update (V01.02), and it revolves around extra virgin olive oil. Some folks have expressed concerns about lecithin; one person said that any increase in acetylcholine can be detrimental to folks with "slow COMPT" (catechol-O-methyltransferase). Therefore, I'm testing 4g of dried and powdered “plain leaf” Salvia divinorum with 1tsp EVOO today. If my working theory about micellar encapsulation is correct, then this could only work if the quantity of bile salts (amphipathic molecules) released by the gallbladder as a response to oil ingestion is enough to encapsulate a comparable quantity of salvinorin A. I'll try to explain this more thoroughly in the next tek.

I should know for certain in ~30 minutes.

 

[stuartroelke]

If I had the choice, I'd use 2g of lecithin every time. However, if all I had was EVOO, then I'd use it because (surprisingly) it worked. I was able to have yet another productive art day with Salvine.

This method did not produce the same level of intensity—and the onset took twice as long—but I was tripping for the standard duration (~3-4 hours total till baseline). Perhaps 6g of dried and powdered “plain leaf” Salvia divinorum would have worked better. According to my research, any dietary oil which promotes bile salt release wouldn't significantly potentiate the experience if more than 1tsp is used.

There are "Ox Bile Salt" supplements; I do (reluctantly) feel obligated to try them

 

[TheGreenPhantom]

Artwork not made by a computer – imagine that.... (very nice, btw)

Thank you for your research!

 

[stuartroelke]

Artwork not made by a computer – imagine that.... (very nice, btw)

Thank you for your research!

Making these teks ooze with my artwork is a necessary indulgence.
It's all inspired by salvia / Salvine, but the "Pharma" tek will hopefully feature an illustration that revolves around a single capsule full of paradoxical wonder.
I'll definitely paint that while on it, too.

 

[stuartroelke]

Updated to V01.02 with new information included.

Experiencing unanticipated issues with the "Pharma" tests, and I'm not yet sure where to go from here. I haven't felt a dose despite titrating up to 4mg of pure salvinorin A with 500mg phosphatidylcholine.

 

[stuartroelke]

Pharma update: I became so focused on Salvia divinorum only being a source for salvinorin A that I ignored other constituents. It may also contain polyphenols like quercetin and luteolin, which have been shown to inhibit CES1. I actually looked into luteolin before testing betulinic acid, but did not think it was a strong enough inhibitor. Furthermore, the bitter salvia "matcha" could encourage bile release (more micellar encapsulation). Other compounds (like waxes and tannins) might be saturating esterases to prevent all the salvinorin A from metabolizing? Lots to research.

 

[stuartroelke]

Another update:
Age of S. divinorum leaf makes little difference for the “Crude” tek. I did a run with 500mg PC and 4g powder made from ~18+ months old salvia shake (was lost in my closet), and it was shockingly close in potency. I’m now letting some fine powder rest to see if will be impacted more by oxidization than the shake was.

The “Pharma” tek is likely going to require a full spectrum extraction (50% water + 50% solvent). I did a ton of research over the past two days, and my working theory is that Salvia divinorum contains inhibitors. Other Salvia spp. have quercetin, luteolin, rosmaric acid, carnosic acid—essentially an array of CES1 inhibitors (CES1 is thought to metabolize salvinorin A -> salvinorin B) and PLA2 inhibitors (PLA2 metabolizes phosphatidylcholine and compromises micellar protection). There seems to be a really interesting entourage effect happening with the crude tek, and this might even include the bitter leaf powder triggering bile release (more micelle formation). I’m wondering if salvinorin B could even be inhibiting PLA2—there’s little known about S. divinorum / salvinorins other than salvinorin A being a potent KOR agonist.

Some polyphenols / acids are hydrophilic, meaning they wouldn’t make it into the purified salvinorin A extracts—this could be why myself and others (possibly including Daniel Siebert) have struggled with orally administered acetone extractions.

At the moment, I am going back to basics: evaporating a tray of 10g full-spectrum extract with 1g cornstarch, dividing this into titrated doses, and then taking each dose with 500mg PC until I approach threshold.

If this works, then I will evaporate directly with dissolved PC before evaporating; essentially, I plan on making an active, green, waxy product. This wax (lipid matrix? Delivery system?) will then be divided and taken in both warm water / capsules to compare effectiveness.

Aside from all this, I’m wondering if the unique smell associated with Salvia divinorum might give some clues as to what other plants contain similar compounds (flavonoids and such). Finding something that inhibits CES1 and PLA2—that can also be purified—might help with creating a purer “Pharma” capsule. Anyone ever notice a similar smell coming from other plants?