Harmalas: pre-flight recommendations

[reun]

Hi all,

I'm preparing for my first harmalas trip, and I was looking for some recommendations.

Background
First, I don't have any drugs or medications that dangerously interact with harmalas -- these would include over-the-counter cold medicine and decongestants, antidepressants, SSRIs, SNRIs (some of these are sleep meds), serotonergic drugs like MDMA, cocaine, amphetamines, etc. If any of these would be consumed, then I believe it is generally safe to wait 2 weeks before and after harmalas (although one should look at individual substances' half-lives).

Before the trip
I understand that one day before the flight and one day after, I should avoid eating tyramine-heavy foods (cured meats, aged cheese, beer, soy sauce, ripe bananas, etc). On the day of consumption, I will probably want to avoid eating anything at all before kick-off, although I might want to drink some peppermint tea to help with the nausea. In the evening, I might want to have some chicken soup or something light. Needless to say, I should clear my schedule for the day I'm planning to do it.

Does that sound right? Is there anything else you'd add here?

During the trip
First, I'm planning to take around 100 mg -- I would dissolve it in a shot of lemon juice and drink it. Does that sound reasonable for a first-timer? Would you take more/less?

I would have a tele-trip sitter who would check up on me when I'm 60 minutes in -- I would just give them a text to let them know that I'm okay. The main reason for this is to safeguard against some catastrophic MAOI interactions (which, should be avoided assuming I avoid certain foods and drugs anyway). Is that a sensible idea?

I understand that I might expect a trip to last about 6 hours or so. Suppose I would take it at 9 am, it will peak from 11 am to 1 pm or so, and I should be more or less back to baseline around 3-4 pm. Taking it in the morning allows you to come down before the evening, integrate your experience and also eat something afterwards. For the trip itself, I would pull the blinds down, play some gentle music, have plenty of water by my side and a bucket just in case I feel sick.

After the trip
The next day, I should still be mindful of my diet, and I should be even more mindful of medications and drugs that I might take for the next few weeks.

---

How does all of that sound? Any tips or recommendations? Also, am I right to assume that harmalas are quite gentle in their spirit, meaning that I might expect more of a grounding and calming trip rather than something anxiety-inducing?

Lastly, a bit of a wildcard: I understand that smoking freebase DMT while you are on harmalas is generally a dangerous exercise, because you'll get hit hard and you will stay in this state for a very long time, right?

If it goes well, then I might introduce about 40 mg of DMT into this mix for a pharmahuasca type of experience next.

Thanks for reading!

 

[The Sofa Traveler]

I understand that one day before the flight and one day after, I should avoid eating tyramine-heavy foods (cured meats, aged cheese, beer, soy sauce, ripe bananas, etc). On the day of consumption, I will probably want to avoid eating anything at all before kick-off, although I might want to drink some peppermint tea to help with the nausea. In the evening, I might want to have some chicken soup or something light. Needless to say, I should clear my schedule for the day I'm planning to do it.

The tyramine interaction with harmalas is exaggerated and is mostly a legacy from early pharmaceutical MAOIs, which where permanent and non-selective and lead to what they called then "cheese syndrome". Harmalas are selective (MAO-A) and reversible mono amine oxidase inhibitors (RIMAs) and consequently, there is very little chance of tyramine accumulating in the body to critical levels as the enzyme will regain its functions a few hours after intake. In addition, tyramine is metabolized by MAO-A mainly but also by MAO-B, which is not inhibited by harmalas, or only slightly at high doses. Also, high tyramine amounts will displace harmalas from their binding site, consequently allowing tyramine to be metabolized again by the MAO. Just don't overdo high tyramine containing food and you'll be fine. No need to deprive yourself from a piece of Parmigiano if it calls you, especially if you fast at least 2 hours before having harmalas, this tyramine intake would be already largely metabolized anyway. You can as well succumb to the cheese call 6-8 hours after the harmalas intake, when MAO inhibition has decreased drastically.
My overall food recommendations would be : fast 2-3 hours before - or more if that's your will but it's not a must do, don't overdo food, favor it digestible and avoid processed ones. These basic rules are enough, no need to overthink the food thing. Of course, these rules can be adjusted based on how you feel.
On the nausea topic : ginger and lemon help too, even more than peppermint IMO.

First, I'm planning to take around 100 mg -- I would dissolve it in a shot of lemon juice and drink it. Does that sound reasonable for a first-timer? Would you take more/less?

I would have a tele-trip sitter who would check up on me when I'm 60 minutes in -- I would just give them a text to let them know that I'm okay. The main reason for this is to safeguard against some catastrophic MAOI interactions (which, should be avoided assuming I avoid certain foods and drugs anyway). Is that a sensible idea?

I understand that I might expect a trip to last about 6 hours or so. Suppose I would take it at 9 am, it will peak from 11 am to 1 pm or so, and I should be more or less back to baseline around 3-4 pm. Taking it in the morning allows you to come down before the evening, integrate your experience and also eat something afterwards. For the trip itself, I would pull the blinds down, play some gentle music, have plenty of water by my side and a bucket just in case I feel sick.

100mg seems a good starter dose. You could even have a smaller one first (20-30mg), just for allergy/body reaction check. Dissolving the freebase in a few lemon juice is what I usually do, I just add a few water once dissolved, for a more bearable taste. All gulped in one shot.
The need for a trip sitter for harmalas intake, unless you are very anxious about it and it reassures you, sounds a little exaggerated to me. Don't expect a trip like a classic psychedelics trip. Harmalas effects will more likely be subtle with such a dose. Usual effects - intensity being dose related - are : sedation, anxiolytic, antidepressant, clear thoughts, wise insights, slight auditory and visual distortions. Higher doses might lead to movement coordination impairments, visual tracers, dreamy/hypnagogic state.
General safety advice: do not handle dangerous tools, do not drive, and do not put yourself in a situation where the aforementioned effects could place you in danger. Last but not least : keep in mind harmalas are hypotensive and might lead to bradycardia so if you have a cardiovascular problems history, be cautious and check compatibility.

The next day, I should still be mindful of my diet, and I should be even more mindful of medications and drugs that I might take for the next few weeks.

The day next, as aforementioned, food topic shouldn't be overthought. Be mindful on the diet only by purpose, not by safety necessity. Caution with medications and drugs should still apply though, before even more than after. The day after, harmalas alkaloids will largely have been metabolized so harmalas-drugs interactions risks will be lowered while when having medications or drugs before harmalas intake, half-lives of these medications or drugs should be taken in account and you should ensure that they have been eliminated from the body before taking harmalas (= 6 half-lives).

Lastly, a bit of a wildcard: I understand that smoking freebase DMT while you are on harmalas is generally a dangerous exercise, because you'll get hit hard and you will stay in this state for a very long time, right?

It really depends on the approach but vaporized or aerozolized DMT with oral harmalas (aka vaporhuasca) is something a lot of us (me included) enjoy a lot. Of course, having a 30mg one-shot vaporized DMT blast-off might be unsettling, that's why I believe the e-juice method provides a smoother, gradual and more enjoyable approach, with full control of the experience depth level wanted. With harmalas and e-cig, no need to rush with a high dose single intake, you can slowly build up the trip intensity in small, successive touches. Such an approach can also help diminishing preflight anxiety.
Harmalas will extend up to 2 or 3 times usual vapourized/aerosolized DMT effects length but will also make it smoother in a certain way. It will smooth things out a bit, round sharp DMT angles, and the overall feel could be less harsh. Just be aware that DMT tokes might trigger or increase nausea from harmalas.

If it goes well, then I might introduce about 40 mg of DMT into this mix for a pharmahuasca type of experience next.

By pharmahuasca, do you mean oral DMT + oral harmalas ? If yes, harmalas needs will progably be higher than 100mg. Experienced user generally report about 200mg harmalas dose for the decent MAO inhibition required for oral DMT. IMO, a good approach would be having the liver/guts MAO fully inhibited, starting low with the DMT dose and building it up gradually over time. Timing between harmalas and DMT intakes is important too. Better build up experience with harmalas only first. Experienced users with this ROA will maybe chime in and give wiser insights.

Peace.

 

[reun]

The tyramine interaction with harmalas is exaggerated and is mostly a legacy from early pharmaceutical MAOIs, which where permanent and non-selective and lead to what they called then "cheese syndrome". Harmalas are selective (MAO-A) and reversible mono amine oxidase inhibitors (RIMAs) and consequently, there is very little chance of tyramine accumulating in the body to critical levels as the enzyme will regain its functions a few hours after intake. In addition, tyramine is metabolized by MAO-A mainly but also by MAO-B, which is not inhibited by harmalas, or only slightly at high doses. Also, high tyramine amounts will displace harmalas from their binding site, consequently allowing tyramine to be metabolized again by the MAO. Just don't overdo high tyramine containing food and you'll be fine. No need to deprive yourself from a piece of Parmigiano if it calls you, especially if you fast at least 2 hours before having harmalas, this tyramine intake would be already largely metabolized anyway. You can as well succumb to the cheese call 6-8 hours after the harmalas intake, when MAO inhibition has decreased drastically.
My overall food recommendations would be : fast 2-3 hours before - or more if that's your will but it's not a must do, don't overdo food, favor it digestible and avoid processed ones. These basic rules are enough, no need to overthink the food thing. Of course, these rules can be adjusted based on how you feel.
On the nausea topic : ginger and lemon help too, even more than peppermint IMO.

100mg seems a good starter dose. You could even have a smaller one first (20-30mg), just for allergy/body reaction check. Dissolving the freebase in a few lemon juice is what I usually do, I just add a few water once dissolved, for a more bearable taste. All gulped in one shot.
The need for a trip sitter for harmalas intake, unless you are very anxious about it and it reassures you, sounds a little exaggerated to me. Don't expect a trip like a classic psychedelics trip. Harmalas effects will more likely be subtle with such a dose. Usual effects - intensity being dose related - are : sedation, anxiolytic, antidepressant, clear thoughts, wise insights, slight auditory and visual distortions. Higher doses might lead to movement coordination impairments, visual tracers, dreamy/hypnagogic state.
General safety advice: do not handle dangerous tools, do not drive, and do not put yourself in a situation where the aforementioned effects could place you in danger. Last but not least : keep in mind harmalas are hypotensive and might lead to bradycardia so if you have a cardiovascular problems history, be cautious and check compatibility.

The day next, as aforementioned, food topic shouldn't be overthought. Be mindful on the diet only by purpose, not by safety necessity. Caution with medications and drugs should still apply though, before even more than after. The day after, harmalas alkaloids will largely have been metabolized so harmalas-drugs interactions risks will be lowered while when having medications or drugs before harmalas intake, half-lives of these medications or drugs should be taken in account and you should ensure that they have been eliminated from the body before taking harmalas (= 6 half-lives).

It really depends on the approach but vaporized or aerozolized DMT with oral harmalas (aka vaporhuasca) is something a lot of us (me included) enjoy a lot. Of course, having a 30mg one-shot vaporized DMT blast-off might be unsettling, that's why I believe the e-juice method provides a smoother, gradual and more enjoyable approach, with full control of the experience depth level wanted. With harmalas and e-cig, no need to rush with a high dose single intake, you can slowly build up the trip intensity in small, successive touches. Such an approach can also help diminishing preflight anxiety.
Harmalas will extend up to 2 or 3 times usual vapourized/aerosolized DMT effects length but will also make it smoother in a certain way. It will smooth things out a bit, round sharp DMT angles, and the overall feel could be less harsh. Just be aware that DMT tokes might trigger or increase nausea from harmalas.

By pharmahuasca, do you mean oral DMT + oral harmalas ? If yes, harmalas needs will progably be higher than 100mg. Experienced user generally report about 200mg harmalas dose for the decent MAO inhibition required for oral DMT. IMO, a good approach would be having the liver/guts MAO fully inhibited, starting low with the DMT dose and building it up gradually over time. Timing between harmalas and DMT intakes is important too. Better build up experience with harmalas only first. Experienced users with this ROA will maybe chime in and give wiser insights.

Peace.

Thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts! I've been told before that you are the subject matter expert on this topic, so I deeply appreciate you weighing in on this.

It is reassuring to know that food interactions seem to be somewhat forgiving and I don't need to be particularly strict here.

Let me address a few points you've raised:

1. Regarding a small dose of, say, 30 mg: I guess this would be a microdose, right? Would I feel anything at all from this other than ensuring that my body can tolerate harmalas?
2. Regarding smoking freebase DMT while on harmalas: I should have clarified this earlier, but I have a 1:1 DMT : PG vape cart, and I find that it has a lot of power packed in it, and if harmalas merely prolonged the experience, then I'd probably not want to combine these, but if harmalas modified this experience somehow, then I would entertain the idea of combining them. It sounds like harmalas would indeed modify this experience in a pleasant way, so I would be interest to experiment with that. Do you think if I had a 30 mg microdose of harmalas, then it would be enough to notice any difference in the DMT vape?
3. Regarding pharmahuasca: yes, I meant oral harmalas and oral DMT. I would also like to try changa, but I feel like it would be a different experience. And it's good to note that I need a bigger dose of harmalas for this to work, so I'll be looking to bump it all the way to 200 mg or so. And as you've suggested, I am indeed looking to experiment with harmalas without the DMT at first

Thank you again!

 

[The Sofa Traveler]

Thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts! I've been told before that you are the subject matter expert on this topic, so I deeply appreciate you weighing in on this.

Haha, I wonder who told you that. I'm kind of honoured anyway, even if I wouldn't qualify myself as an expert, I just have my fair share of experience with harmalas and vaporhuasca, and gained some knowledge over time from my own experiences and all the things I've read (and still read) on that topic.

Regarding a small dose of, say, 30 mg: I guess this would be a microdose, right? Would I feel anything at all from this other than ensuring that my body can tolerate harmalas?

Sure, it's on the microdose side and you probably won't feel much effects of it, if any. It is not mandatory to go through this step, but it might be done as part of a harm-reduction approach to ensure there is no allergic reaction to the substance and that the initial exposure goes smoothly.

Regarding smoking freebase DMT while on harmalas: I should have clarified this earlier, but I have a 1:1 DMT : PG vape cart, and I find that it has a lot of power packed in it, and if harmalas merely prolonged the experience, then I'd probably not want to combine these, but if harmalas modified this experience somehow, then I would entertain the idea of combining them. It sounds like harmalas would indeed modify this experience in a pleasant way, so I would be interest to experiment with that. Do you think if I had a 30 mg microdose of harmalas, then it would be enough to notice any difference in the DMT vape?

Harmalas definitely modify the nature of experience, it's not only a question of length/intensity. I have the feeling that DMT in moderate doses with harmalas provide more interesting insights and a more full and fulfilling experience. It seems that you already have the equipment for such an approach. If you're afraid to be overwhelmed, just take smaller than usual tokes on your vape, repeat if you want, until your reach a desired level of intensity.
Not sure a 30mg harmalas dose will provide a huge difference from DMT intake without them but it's worth the try. Harmalas sensitivity is also an individual thing.
Anyway, if you're kind of afraid to be overwhelmed, you still can experience the harmalas only first (which I recommend anyway), then, when you feel more comfortable and confident with them, introduce the DMT in the game. It's up to you and there is no need to rush. Trust your guts.

Regarding pharmahuasca: yes, I meant oral harmalas and oral DMT. I would also like to try changa, but I feel like it would be a different experience. And it's good to note that I need a bigger dose of harmalas for this to work, so I'll be looking to bump it all the way to 200 mg or so. And as you've suggested, I am indeed looking to experiment with harmalas without the DMT at first

Ok, so for pharmahuasca, I'd wait for someone more experienced than me with it to chime in the discussion for more insights.
About changa : the vaporhuasca is somewhat close to changa experience, with a more intense harmalas feel (depending on the dose of course) and no combustion, which is a great advantage IMO, especially for people with sensitive lungs. Both are DMT + harmalas experience but in general, harmalas via oral route feel more intense than smoked.

Just a question : did you extract the harmalas yourself ? Harmalas from the market are often reported being weaker and below expectations compared to home extracted harmalas. Keep it in mind.

 

[northape]

Regarding pharmahuasca: yes, I meant oral harmalas and oral DMT. I would also like to try changa, but I feel like it would be a different experience. And it's good to note that I need a bigger dose of harmalas for this to work, so I'll be looking to bump it all the way to 200 mg or so. And as you've suggested, I am indeed looking to experiment with harmalas without the DMT at first

Pharma and changa are indeed different. Just start working with harmalas by themselves, then you can introduce vaping DMT. At some point, you can go for a bigger dose of harmalas and see what it's like (maybe take a few tokes from your vape if you feel comfortable enough). The next step would be pharma. When you ingest DMT orally, there is no going back (similar to mushrooms). You can purge on pharma more easily too, because your dose of harmalas is much higher. You're a cautious person, so you'd be fine. Just go slow and adapt to it. Safe travels.

 

[reun]

Haha, I wonder who told you that. I'm kind of honoured anyway, even if I wouldn't qualify myself as an expert, I just have my fair share of experience with harmalas and vaporhuasca, and gained some knowledge over time from my own experiences and all the things I've read (and still read) on that topic.

Ha! Well, if you are interested, then new_science suggested that you are the expert on this topic here!

Sure, it's on the microdose side and you probably won't feel much effects of it, if any. It is not mandatory to go through this step, but it might be done as part of a harm-reduction approach to ensure there is no allergic reaction to the substance and that the initial exposure goes smoothly.

You might not know the answer, and that's okay, but I thought I'll ask: do you think that a 30 mg microdose would still warrant fasting? In other words, if I decide to take 30 mg at 9 am, should I still avoid eating anything before this and until later that evening? But yes, I agree, I would certainly want to test how my body responds to this first.

Just a question : did you extract the harmalas yourself ? Harmalas from the market are often reported being weaker and below expectations compared to home extracted harmalas. Keep it in mind.

Yes, I'm actually wrapping up my first extraction tomorrow, I can already see the harmalas, I'll just need to dry them out and then I'm done. I found Syrian rue and to my pleasant surprise, I discovered that extracting harmalas is far simpler than extracting DMT. Thanks for the heads up, though!

 

[The Sofa Traveler]

Ha! Well, if you are interested, then new_science suggested that you are the expert on this topic here!

Dunno why but I suspected our dear @new_science being involved in this story

Yes, I'm actually wrapping up my first extraction tomorrow, I can already see the harmalas, I'll just need to dry them out and then I'm done. I found Syrian rue and to my pleasant surprise, I discovered that extracting harmalas is far simpler than extracting DMT. Thanks for the heads up, though!

Nice It's indeed less demanding than DMT extraction, especially when you use sodium carbonate rather than NaOH. I'd recommend to refine a little the crude extract by dissolving it again in acidic water then pouring it through a coffee filter to discard/catch remaining gunk, then rebasifying the filtered brew, etc. Final step could be rinsing the solidified harmalas with demineralized water to remove residual SC. Not mandatory but the remaining gunk might affect the weight/efficiency ratio. 100mg crude extract will be less strong than the same weight of refined harmalas.

 

[The Sofa Traveler]

Sorry, missed to answer that :

do you think that a 30 mg microdose would still warrant fasting?

My general rule is the higher the dose, the more fasting is important. I don't think 30mg would require a 2-3h fast beforehand, or any fast at all. If it was me, I'd fast a little anyway, or just eat very low amounts of food before with like 30-60mn fast beforehand. But that's me.

 

[northape]

do you think that a 30 mg microdose would still warrant fasting?

If you have food in your stomach, expect a much longer onset. It may be harder to sense what harmalas are doing, too. Basically, when you're in a fasted state, you'll be more sensitive. You could just skip your last meal of the day and do your test in the evening, or do it first thing in the morning before eating anything.