Has DMT changed your understanding of theology?

[Glossolalia]

Since trying DMT for the first time and experiencing ego death for the first time as well it has given my a real understanding and affirmation of my Christian beliefs which I had become distant to.

Smoking DMT has rekindled my interest in the nature of this reality. As a result I turned to the Vedas, the writings of the Buddha, Lao Tzu, Jesus, and modern authors as well. I am not a Christian per se, at least I'm not in the habit of calling myself that, but boy--now that I've resumed my journey of inward exploration the love of Christ has entered my life like never before.

For the past few months I find the words of Jesus resonating throughout me. I will read a passage in, for example, the Bhagavad Gita, and think to myself "Wait—isn't that exactly what Jesus said?" Indeed, a quick visit to biblehub.com confirms my theory. So I find myself jumping between multiple holy scriptures, and as I do so, I often find the words of the Christ the most beautiful and clearly stated.

Years ago I would read the passages and think "Yeah, yeah, kingdom of heaven, yadda yadda yadda" ... the words rolled off me like a water off a duck. Now I read the very same words and they burn like fire in my heart. The verses which left my mystified earlier now seem so plainly obvious to me.

In case you're curious, here's just one example. I spent a great deal of time meditating on Luke 17:21, "The Kingdom of Heaven is within you." A curious pronouncement (and there are some arguments over the precise translation as well.)

I don't know: Do most Christians really appreciate what a radical statement that is? The Kingdom of Heaven is clearly greater than the earth, is greater than, is greater than anything in form, and yet it's within you! YOU!!! God did not make you as a little insignificant worm to beg for mercy, He made you so majestically divine, that all you have to do reach out and accept His grace. ( "Ask, and it shall be given you." )

 

[JDSalinger]

AstraLex, out of curiosity do you still partake in illegal drug use?

Glossolalia, what a wonderful verse to meditate on
I have recently started reading the Vedas and came to a realisation that all main religions are the same. I mean really, if you look at the true message, not the molested versions we are all to familiar with, you get a message of love and of a truer reality than our own.

 

[Koornut]

Psychedelics in general have greatly enhanced my appreciation of theologically inspired architecture.

 

[DoingKermit]

I also grew up in a Christian household, but it was never shoved down our throats. I had my first communion and my confirmation in my teens. I all ways had too many questions about it and praying to God felt almost like an OCD, as I felt fear that something bad would happen to me if I didn't. That's the part of religion that I didn't/don't understand... why create fear in people in order for them to believe in something all-loving?

When living in Italy, my family went on a trip to Rome and since it was my senior year in High School, I got to stay home and "study" while my family went off for a week. When away they went through this door somewhere in Rome (maybe St. Peter's) where doing so means they automatically get into heaven. This door only opens once every 1000 years IIRC. I remember thinking how ridiculous the idea was that anyone could supposedly get into heaven, no matter what they did in life, if they walked through this sacred door. The little faith I had in Christianity slowly faded.

DMT has definitely changed my perception on religion in general. I do believe there is something much greater than us at work, but that it is actually much deeper a concept than what I was lead to believe growing up.

 

[AstraLex]

AstraLex, out of curiosity do you still partake in illegal drug use?

I am still doing drugs at special occasions: cannabis 4-6 times a year and MDMA 1-2 times a year. However, I have completely stopped using all real hallucinogenic drugs, including, of course, DMT.

 

[Lizz]

AstralLex, putting aside the fact that I don't believe in a god or a devil or anything pertaining to this absolute dichotomy of good vs. evil hoohah... I'm going to piece together what I know of Christianity to ask you this; the Devil was an Angel before he fell from Grace correct? According to the bible, God is the only being with the power to create life, angels cannot do so. Therefore, only god could have created these psychedelic plants. No one else. How then, can experiencing them as they were meant to be experienced be the work of the devil? God put the plants here for a reason, and I'm willing to net he created the alkaloids they contain for a reason as well. Or do you believe the devil tampered with these plants and put the psychoactive substances there? I'd like to think that an all powerful deity would see his creations being tampered with and do something to stop it. Just some food for thought.

 

[JDSalinger]

AstralLex, putting aside the fact that I don't believe in a god or a devil or anything pertaining to this absolute dichotomy of good vs. evil hoohah... I'm going to piece together what I know of Christianity to ask you this; the Devil was an Angel before he fell from Grace correct? According to the bible, God is the only being with the power to create life, angels cannot do so. Therefore, only god could have created these psychedelic plants. No one else. How then, can experiencing them as they were meant to be experienced be the work of the devil? God put the plants here for a reason, and I'm willing to net he created the alkaloids they contain for a reason as well. Or do you believe the devil tampered with these plants and put the psychoactive substances there? I'd like to think that an all powerful deity would see his creations being tampered with and do something to stop it. Just some food for thought.

Hello Lizz, the is no theological evidence pointing to the devil creating entheogens, Christians whom do believe this are sadly misconceived.

 

[Lizz]

AstralLex, putting aside the fact that I don't believe in a god or a devil or anything pertaining to this absolute dichotomy of good vs. evil hoohah... I'm going to piece together what I know of Christianity to ask you this; the Devil was an Angel before he fell from Grace correct? According to the bible, God is the only being with the power to create life, angels cannot do so. Therefore, only god could have created these psychedelic plants. No one else. How then, can experiencing them as they were meant to be experienced be the work of the devil? God put the plants here for a reason, and I'm willing to net he created the alkaloids they contain for a reason as well. Or do you believe the devil tampered with these plants and put the psychoactive substances there? I'd like to think that an all powerful deity would see his creations being tampered with and do something to stop it. Just some food for thought.

Hello Lizz, the is no theological evidence pointing to the devil creating entheogens, Christians whom do believe this are sadly misconceived.

I know hun. I like trying to make people challenge their beliefs, that's why I am questioning this person. I'm a stinker.

 

[JDSalinger]

Ah sorry, I misinterpreted you...

 

[AstraLex]

AstralLex, putting aside the fact that I don't believe in a god or a devil or anything pertaining to this absolute dichotomy of good vs. evil hoohah... I'm going to piece together what I know of Christianity to ask you this; the Devil was an Angel before he fell from Grace correct? According to the bible, God is the only being with the power to create life, angels cannot do so. Therefore, only god could have created these psychedelic plants. No one else. How then, can experiencing them as they were meant to be experienced be the work of the devil? God put the plants here for a reason, and I'm willing to net he created the alkaloids they contain for a reason as well. Or do you believe the devil tampered with these plants and put the psychoactive substances there? I'd like to think that an all powerful deity would see his creations being tampered with and do something to stop it. Just some food for thought.

Hey Lizz,

God is the creator of everything - that's correct. But within that creation everybody is free to make everything one desires. For example: you have just wrote a message in this topic - that message is your creation. But it was God who made it possible for you to learn how to write, and thus making your creation possible. If you compare our life to a computer game, with us being highly advanced AI characters, then God is the one who designed that game in the first place and provides the game with everything it needs to run on day-to-day basis: hardware, software, electricity, maintenance etc.

Unfortunately, it is impossible for me to know the ways of God - why and how everything was created, and for what purpose. Actually, I don´t know anything about Gods plans: why some people die young or suffer terrible diseases for example. But again, it doesn't mean there is no reason to it - I trust and accept that I simply do not know. I might learn it after my death, but I am not sure about it either.

I don´t know why psychedelics exist, but I have faith that they must exist for a reason. Even research chemicals, artificially created by men, could only be made because God allowed it to be possible in the first place. Why? I don´t know. But there is one thing I do know from my own personal experience: breakthrough doses of psychedelics shoot you straight into the spirit world. That dimension is real and can be accessed even without psychedelics. There are many entities who live there, but there are no angels, only demons and demons in disguise.

Thank you for your input Lizz!

 

[muladharma]

This is an attempt to answer having the question as the main guideline: "Has DMT changed your understanding of theology?"

First point to make is the evolution of my understanding of theology. Like some of the contributors to the thread, I also had the freedom to choose the level of interest in the topic, and started with a strong interest in science in my early life.

As a child I was very drawn to theology inwardly (meaning I didn't share with anyone), then my interest decreased untill I finished university studies, and it increased again some 3 years after ending studies, along with an interest in history which was encouraged by the works of Terence McKenna.

My current view of theology is going to be illustrated by three points, that are my understanding so far:

1. Theology has historical precedence, along with mathematics, in human culture.
2. The "Logos", which is part of the word "theology", might have originated with theology, although there are numerous "logies" today.
3. The current state of science does not exclude theology, but complements it, and it remains at the core of innate human interest.


Aside from the three points, I'll also add that, I can only imagine and try to grow my understanding while realizing that it's possible for the passage of human time to have changed since the expansion of population and technology. As communication improved, language also evolved faster. The idea is that the word to refer to the origin of it all, in my opinion, is "theology".


As for the first part of the question, has DMT or psychedelics changed my understanding, I'll add one opinion below.

1. Psychedelics can make some truths about spirituality become apparent effortlessly.

 

[AlienBuddha777]

I have yet to experience DMT (hopefully this year) but after doing psilocybin a few times in the last 2 years, I had a powerful experience listening to Gregorian chanting on YouTube and felt connected to a frequency from a "source" if they are the right words to use. I know there are some European churches with religious depictions of psilocybin and sacred geometry paintings.


This is interesting - The Psychedelic Gospels - The Secret History of Hallucinogens in Christianity - The Psychedelic Gospels by Jerry B. Brown PhD & Julie M. Brown MA


I used to be an atheist, nihilist a few years ago but psychedelics in general have strengthened my spiritual and healing needs, I consider myself a cultural Christian albeit am more drawn to Buddhism at present.

 

[Anonymous2]

Yes, it did.

Especially since I looked into the mirror.

 

[Icyseeker]

Psychedelics has changed my perception of religion. But not in the way that one might expect. Looking at religion as a pattern that weaves through the history of humanity. On one hand it is a great source of spirituality to its adherents. On the other hand it is a great source of suffering to those that are on the other end of the sword (Crusades, Jihads,class structure). It is a deep rooted cultural archetype that can not be gotten rid of. So instead, it much like government and family structures must be incorporated into a more nuanced view of the world. Psychedelics have instilled into me the importance at looking at the big picture no matter how big it is.

 

[VibeSurfer]

I'm an atheist before and after all trips. I do consider ayahuasca to be my spirituality, however.

 

[Teamleary]

I'm afraid that any kind of "logical" deduction (and I mean "logical" in the broadest sense, as theology implies things that are theological – so anything logos related) is a reduction of what the experience actually is. A reduction to a very human (egotistic) perspective.

In a way, I'd find suspicious any sort of "intelligible understanding". For instance, assigning "good" or "bad" to entities seems very human. What LSD, DMT or meditation makes me "feel", is that God/Reality is beyond/below any morality.

if using the logos/language is to create artificial differences within what is actually One, I wouldn't worry too much about my own understanding of theology.

 

[dmtryptaliva]

DMT makes me think that everything is Consciousness. I guess DMT made me kind of into a panpsychist, I like the idea that (Cosmic) Consciousness (or God if you prefer) created spacetime, and not the other way around. That being said I am in no way a determinist. The future is open, chaos reigns!