there are claims that aya may help opiate addiction but I have yet to find someone who personally that has used it to kick opiates. I have a friend who is very addicted but he has told me he wishes to quit and I have actually sat with him several times while he was trying to kick it and all times have ended in failure he gets physically ill shaking, vomiting and several other harsh side effects. I've looked up a few articles saying that aya helps by my understanding from what I've read it kinda resets the brain so if one was having withdrawal effects it stops them temporarily. Personally since my first heavy dose of aya I have little desire to do other drugs where before I would occasionally get a hankering to do them but I was never heavily addicted. I was wondering if perhaps with the right timing aya could help my friend if so can anyone give me advice on how to do it please do. I haven't mentioned aya to him yet and he has no knowledge of what it is... I really don't know if this would work but it makes me very sad to see him fighting this battle and losing every step of the way.
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helping a friend need advice.
- Thread starter aj4722
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You're probably thinking of ibogaine, as far as the 'brain reset'thing goes. There's no empirical, buy plenty of anecdotal evidence that it works, and if your friend us interested and has the means (money) to go to a clinic that administers it, he can begin researching that topic.
Opiate addiction is nasty. I've told my story here of being strung out on heroin in the worst way and how psychedelics, especially DMT, have helped me put alot of distance between myself and it, not just temporally but psychically and emotionally, which is the big part. It wasn't DMT that got me over any withdrawal though, i was on methadone, the DMT merely gave me the strength to do the work to get off off that, slowly over time.
(You may want to suggest methadone to your friend, it has a horrible stigma but it can get one out of the life and they can put the pieces together while on it. )
Good on you for caring for your friend. Eventually the pain of using WILL become greater than the pleasure. Hopefully he's not like me, and he won't suffer severe consequences first. in the end is up to him if he wants to live or die, no other way with dope.
Opiate addiction is nasty. I've told my story here of being strung out on heroin in the worst way and how psychedelics, especially DMT, have helped me put alot of distance between myself and it, not just temporally but psychically and emotionally, which is the big part. It wasn't DMT that got me over any withdrawal though, i was on methadone, the DMT merely gave me the strength to do the work to get off off that, slowly over time.
(You may want to suggest methadone to your friend, it has a horrible stigma but it can get one out of the life and they can put the pieces together while on it. )
Good on you for caring for your friend. Eventually the pain of using WILL become greater than the pleasure. Hopefully he's not like me, and he won't suffer severe consequences first. in the end is up to him if he wants to live or die, no other way with dope.
Your concern for your friend says tons about you. He is lucky to have you. You will likely be more help than Aya or anything else. Just being the calming force in this person's life can and will make a huge difference in their recovery.
Ultimately this person must make the choice to not want opiates in their life anymore. Not to state the obvious. I just mean he may need to go through this difficulty in his life for a reason. Hard to watch but sometimes that is all we can do and just try to be as supportive as possible.
I feel like you should follow your intuition and be honest with your friend. Tell him about Aya and why you think it may help. You seem to have the best of intentions and I think your friend will see and trust that. Maybe just having a conversation with your friend will change the course.
Good luck with your buddy! It's hard to see friends go through hard times. Maybe one day this friend will be by your side supporting you in a time of need because they remember you being there for them.
Ultimately this person must make the choice to not want opiates in their life anymore. Not to state the obvious. I just mean he may need to go through this difficulty in his life for a reason. Hard to watch but sometimes that is all we can do and just try to be as supportive as possible.
I feel like you should follow your intuition and be honest with your friend. Tell him about Aya and why you think it may help. You seem to have the best of intentions and I think your friend will see and trust that. Maybe just having a conversation with your friend will change the course.
Good luck with your buddy! It's hard to see friends go through hard times. Maybe one day this friend will be by your side supporting you in a time of need because they remember you being there for them.
Thank you for your thoughts on this. but i am worried about any side effects that may occur by mixing aya with opiates he can only go about 8 hours without them before he begins to experience withdrawal. Would It be safe to allow him to take it at the 8 hour mark? Also I worry about the stress on his body. He has some experience with psychedelics and has actually succeeded in pulling himself out of a deep depression with a high dose of mushrooms. So I believe he will get the fact that if he chooses to try it he may have a very difficult self journey.
Aya will not alleviate his withdrawal. I'm surprised noone has chimed in on this. It is great that you're being a friend and want to help this person, but I'm afraid you're setting up a disaster if you try to dose a serious opiate addict with Aya.
No offense at all man, but have you taken someone thru a withdrawal before? Would you know what to do when he's puking in withdrawal, going thru a horrible psychedelic trip?
I wouldn't, and i have been with many people thru a kick. Do you have kids? A dopesick junky is worse than a baby in diapers.
What is your friend taking , heroin, oxy, what? How much, and for how long? Really, if he's looking for something to alleviate his withdrawals and wants the benefit of a psychedelic, ibogaine, not Aya, is what you want to research. Someone may tell you that ayahuasca can cure heroin addiction, but that's misleading. It would be, and DMT is, very beneficial in AFTERCARE, to carry on the life and reinforce it without drugs once one has gotten over the physical part. Or as i said above.
I'm concerned t that you may be in over your head. I'm not a professional in the treatment field, but do have a lot of life experience with this subject and it is the subject of personal research, particularly using psychedelics as an integral part of recovery, and you or your friend are welcome to pm me if you just need to talk to someone. And if i sound harsh, forgive me, i do really commend you for being there for a person in need, just be careful, you know what they say about the best intentions...
No offense at all man, but have you taken someone thru a withdrawal before? Would you know what to do when he's puking in withdrawal, going thru a horrible psychedelic trip?
I wouldn't, and i have been with many people thru a kick. Do you have kids? A dopesick junky is worse than a baby in diapers.
What is your friend taking , heroin, oxy, what? How much, and for how long? Really, if he's looking for something to alleviate his withdrawals and wants the benefit of a psychedelic, ibogaine, not Aya, is what you want to research. Someone may tell you that ayahuasca can cure heroin addiction, but that's misleading. It would be, and DMT is, very beneficial in AFTERCARE, to carry on the life and reinforce it without drugs once one has gotten over the physical part. Or as i said above.
I'm concerned t that you may be in over your head. I'm not a professional in the treatment field, but do have a lot of life experience with this subject and it is the subject of personal research, particularly using psychedelics as an integral part of recovery, and you or your friend are welcome to pm me if you just need to talk to someone. And if i sound harsh, forgive me, i do really commend you for being there for a person in need, just be careful, you know what they say about the best intentions...
I understand what your saying and yes I've helped someone though withdrawal before I am a certified emt working towards my paramedic cert that is why I'm here because I am trying to find actual proof that someone has or can do this. I would never even bring it up to him unless I knew that it could be done safely. And I've read reports that ibognine bonds to the same areas of the brain that tryps do and that it may not be as strong of the effect as ibogaine but should still ease withdrawal to some degree. That's why I'm asking to find information to see if anybody can confirm this?
Also is microdosing a possibility has anybody ever heard of this technique being used in addiction treatment.
And as for the amount he is currently is down to 6 to 9 Vicodin 10s a day sometimes as little as 4 on a good day witch is progress from the 15 to 20 he was taking he has a rather large build and use to take ungodly amounts.
Also is microdosing a possibility has anybody ever heard of this technique being used in addiction treatment.
And as for the amount he is currently is down to 6 to 9 Vicodin 10s a day sometimes as little as 4 on a good day witch is progress from the 15 to 20 he was taking he has a rather large build and use to take ungodly amounts.
Again, I'm surprised I'm the only one to chime in. In my exp, no tryptamine will alleviate the withdrawal. There has been no empirical evidence supporting the action of ibogaine in this area, only anecdotal. Go to these two places for the only info you're liable to find that has any modicum of accuracy-
Iceers.org and check out the ERIE people, they work mostly with 5meo DMT, but they may be able to give you info, there's good folks there.
I'm glad you aren't going into this blind, but the use of psychedelics is the most effective route to recovery for me personally but not for the physical, but the emotional and spiritual effects. I can not emphasize this enough, if he wants to get over the physical symptoms, i can give you a recipe that will work better than anything- clonodine, in dangerously high doses, it works to quiet the screaming brain, immodium for nausea, and no more than three days worth of clonopin or xanax. Then, when he's out of the woods, a good trip to get to the bottom of what causes his addiction, because we are all only medicating some kind of pain . And again, I'm open anytime...
Iceers.org and check out the ERIE people, they work mostly with 5meo DMT, but they may be able to give you info, there's good folks there.
I'm glad you aren't going into this blind, but the use of psychedelics is the most effective route to recovery for me personally but not for the physical, but the emotional and spiritual effects. I can not emphasize this enough, if he wants to get over the physical symptoms, i can give you a recipe that will work better than anything- clonodine, in dangerously high doses, it works to quiet the screaming brain, immodium for nausea, and no more than three days worth of clonopin or xanax. Then, when he's out of the woods, a good trip to get to the bottom of what causes his addiction, because we are all only medicating some kind of pain . And again, I'm open anytime...
Your mean clonodine the medication often prescribed for blood pressure and occasionally for sleeping problems or do you mean clonopin the pain killer. How does clonodine help I use them occasionally for sleeping prescribed and pretty much all they do is drop your blood pressure enough to make you tired wouldn't that compound the already low blood pressure to dangerous levels.
Also earlier today I was researching and came upon some articles talking about tramadol in moderately high doses it being a synthetic opiate it might have potential in alleviating symptoms
And as far as his next attempt in kicking it me and few other close friends are going camping on his request very far off the gird in two weeks. so if there is a good way to alleviate his symptoms I need to find it. And if he is able to kick it I will have aya with me if he does wish to do it.
Also earlier today I was researching and came upon some articles talking about tramadol in moderately high doses it being a synthetic opiate it might have potential in alleviating symptoms
And as far as his next attempt in kicking it me and few other close friends are going camping on his request very far off the gird in two weeks. so if there is a good way to alleviate his symptoms I need to find it. And if he is able to kick it I will have aya with me if he does wish to do it.
aj4722 said:
Many of the symptoms of acute opioid withdrawal stem from rebound overactivity of a brainstem area called the Locus Ceruleus and is mediated by excessive noradrenergic action. Clonidine acts as a pre-synaptic alpha-2 agonist which dampen this down pretty effectively but can also drop the blood pressure significantly.
Klonopin (clonazepam) is not a painkiller; its a potent benzodiazepine which can help ease the anxiety-induced misery and if dosed high enough may promote sleep.
Other options with a 'firm anecdotal base' include agents like pregabalin or gapapentin for the restless legs (though benzos may also help this a little) and loperamide (at high doses) as a substitute mu agonist, quetiapine as a general dampener of the misery and for some, DXM. Ketamine can also help, like DXM, through NMDA antagonism.
Tramadol can also help but needs quite high dosing which can be problematic for some and is also addictive.
Simple agents like ibuprofen can also ease the aching misery albeit slightly.
Ayahuasca in the acute phase of withdrawal would be ill-advised IMO, but could be useful once the first week or so have been traversed but consideration needs to be given to what tools had been used in the preceding days to avoid RIMA-interaction issues.
My bad I was thinking claudipin for some reason when I said klonopin. Funny that you mentioned dxm I just ran across a page about it after I left here last night and feel that this might be something he could try. Back in the past before all this began we use to dex out every once and while... So he's fimailer with it. But for the clonodine I feel that we would have to experiment with the dose to find the right amount he's rather large and has inhuman tolerance to most drugs.
I kicked a gram a day heroin habit once with no withdrawal whatsoever with clonidine. I was in hospital though, and had to have Mt blood pressure taken constantly. They gave me two catapress patches (transdermal clonidine, over100$each! ) along with oral doses if .3mg regularly. I had the blood pressure of a corpse but it worked.
There's something to be said about pain and detox though. I think i lasted w week that time.
There's something to be said about pain and detox though. I think i lasted w week that time.
