Hexane or Heptane?

[Trickster]

Is heptane any better than hexane as a non-polar solvent for extracting spice from mhrb?

 

[benzyme]

accessibility.

DCM is relatively hard to find OTC.
and yeah, most non-scientists are scared of chemicals.

 

[Infundibulum]

There is no better solvent than methylene chloride, or DCM.

Wow!

Excuse my ignorance, but why would people continue using heptane, hexane, limonene, etc?

Is it because DCM is somewhat toxic?

No - each solvent has different characteristics and is suited for different tastes;

DCM pulls a lot of stuff other than alkaloids, e.g. shitloads of oils. DCM pulls require further cleanup, i.e. backsalting or extensive defatting during the acid step. And things cannot be freeze-precipitated out of DCM. Plus, DCM is difficult to procure in some countries.

DCM is a suspected carcinogen, even though this has not really been demonstrated. Chloroform, a solvent very similar and equally good as DCM is carcinogenic and by inference, DCM is treated with a degree of suspicion.

Hexane/heptane/octane/nonane/naphthas do what most people want them to do easily, can be freeze-precipitated and still produce good yields - they're easy to find too.

Limonene is for the foodgrade-ness obsessive compulsive kitchen chemists. It is similar to DCM in some respects, pulls really alot (from mimosa and cactus at least), yet it needs to be back-salted somehow. It is more difficult to distil (high boiling point) and requires more care when doing so since it is pretty flammable. Not really many people go into distilling and reusing limonene.

 

[soulfood]

I recently found a supplier of DCM and I'm loving it while it lasts.

I'm very much looking forward to doing a mimosa pull and straight evapping it for some sticky jurema goodness

 

[Infundibulum]

I recently found a supplier of DCM and I'm loving it while it lasts.

I'm very much looking forward to doing a mimosa pull and straight evapping it for some sticky jurema goodness

Man, in the UK this is too late - or too early being awake wring posts!

No?:d

 

[soulfood]

Not for me

I aint driving.

 

[Trickster]

Plus, DCM is difficult to procure in some countries.

DCM is a suspected carcinogen, even though this has not really been demonstrated. Chloroform, a solvent very similar and equally good as DCM is carcinogenic and by inference, DCM is treated with a degree of suspicion.

Swim can get DCM, but it is somewhat expensive - $30 per liter. It is high purity grade. She also has found a source of 1,1-Dichloroethane for $5 per l only, but it is reagent grade.

She supposes DCE will be as good as DCM, although boiling at a somewhat higher temp. For the purpose of alkaloids extraction does higher grade justify much higher price?

Limonene is for the foodgrade-ness obsessive compulsive kitchen chemists.

Swim is rather experimentation obsessive . Besides, limonene is not available here.

 

[benzyme]

Swim can get DCM, but it is somewhat expensive - $30 per liter.

that's not expensive at all, it's about avg. market price. what swiy doesn't realize is that it doesn't take nearly as much dcm to extract the alks as it does with naptha or even xylene. 50 mL could easily dissolve 2-3 grams of dmt.
DCE should work well too.

For the purpose of alkaloids extraction does higher grade justify much higher price?

probably not.

 

[fraterS.O.L.]

Ok, thats a bit of info to mill over. A few questions.
Can DCM be utilised in the FASA method?
Since stb is out of the question, wouldn't it not pull as much? Or does its sheer bad-assery do more than lye ever could?
Does it need to be dryed?
I still need hex brands for the US

 

[Infundibulum]

Can DCM be utilised in the FASA method?

No, it can't. FASA and DCM do not blend like FASA blends with xylene/toluene.

It is better to salt out using some other acid in aqueous environment

Since stb is out of the question, wouldn't it not pull as much? Or does its sheer bad-assery do more than lye ever could?
Does it need to be dryed?

It is hard to understand you here.

 

[fraterS.O.L.]

No, it can't. FASA and DCM do not blend like FASA blends with xylene/toluene.

It is better to salt out using some other acid in aqueous environment

Then rebasify, pull again, & evap?

It is hard to understand you here.

STBs expose spice hidden in the bark right? Wouldn't that mean with A/Bs there's less to pull? And I meant should DCM be dryed like acetone? Sorry for the confusing choice of words.

 

[UK Explorer]

Great stuff guys really feel we've learnt a little from this thread even though some of the technical talk at first went straight over our head.

A FOAF has sourced naphtha and hexane, with a small order of each to check purity first. As these all came in the solvents section he was wondering if any would be of particular use?:

2-butoxyethanol / Ethylene Glycol butyl ether
1-Methoxy-2-Propanol, PM
Acetone - 99.5%
Benzyl Alcohol 99+%
DPG, DiPropylene Glycol
Hexane 110-54-3
IPM Isopropyl Myristate BP/USP
MEA, Monoethanolamine
MEG, Mono Ethylene Glycol
Mono Propylene Glycol USP
Orange Terpenes
Rubbing Alcohol - 70%
Solvent Naphtha
TEA, Triethanolamine
THF Tetrahydrofura


He reports that he is at a bit of a quandry now whether to go for just the DMT with a solvent like hexane and then pull jungle spice seperately OR whether it would be best to have it all together (for a more full-bodied experience?)?

In a nutshell can anyone explain the differences in the 3(?) journeys?

Have read of the stark differences in DMT and jungle spice, is a combo a potent middle ground?

 

[Rivea]

yeah..

so spice is marginally soluble in the light aliphatics such as hexane and heptane, and thus it stands to reason that heating the solvent would be necessary to get DMT to go into solution. obviously, you won't be able to take the temp very high for solvents like pet ether, which is why those solvents (hexanes/pet ether) should be reserved for recrystallization. heptane is acceptable as an extraction solvent, but VM&P is probably better.

I had a 1% yield on this extraction, but I did do 7 pulls using the PE. Then again maybe my MHRB has a lot left in it. I did keep the basified solution and will try extracting it again using something heavier to see if I missed any significant amounts of spice.

Any more thoughts Benzyme?

 

[69ron]

Swim can get DCM, but it is somewhat expensive - $30 per liter.

that's not expensive at all, it's about avg. market price. what swiy doesn't realize is that it doesn't take nearly as much dcm to extract the alks as it does with naptha or even xylene. 50 mL could easily dissolve 2-3 grams of dmt.
DCE should work well too.

For the purpose of alkaloids extraction does higher grade justify much higher price?

probably not.

Also factor in how CHEAP it is to redistill DCM. It distills super fast and at a very low temperature. So that initial $30 or so per liter is not much at all when you consider that SWIM has been using the same liter for 2 years! It's so easy to recycle it. Of course it's not 1 liter anymore, a little loss here and there is going to happen, but if you're good about minimizing loss it can last a long time.

The only downside to DCM is its toxicity. If only there was a solvent as great as DCM that was less toxic. That would be fantastic.

 

[Trickster]

The only downside to DCM is its toxicity. If only there was a solvent as great as DCM that was less toxic. That would be fantastic.

Is 1,1-Dichloroethane less toxic?

 

[DiMiTriX]

swim have just bought about 700ml of n-hexane for 2.90€..that's good! he probably will try to recrystallize some of his dmt,and maybe,try to reduce the yellow spice with some magnesium if it works!:roll:

 

[Orion]

this hexane vs. heptane talk is misleading.
neither is better than the other because they have identical polarity index values.
there's no advantage to using one over the other.

also, there is no alkaloid specific solvent, i don't know who started this myth. in separation science, binary solvent mixtures are typically used, varying the composition over time. this is run against a stationary solid phase. sometimes more than two solvents are used, even then, the mixture is not alkaloid-specific.

Back on topic: I've been trying to tell these nuckas this for ages. THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN HEPTANE AND HEXANE for extractions or recrystallizing. Put this in the bollocks bin with pineals and jungle spice.

Wanna fight about it ?

Right, outside.

 

[Eaglepath]

I know this thread is old but just want to add that I have never used anything else than Hexane for both extraction and Re-x.

I do not know if I agree that it is a selective solvent due to first "yield" is a different experience than after Re-X, so it seems that there is other alkaloids as well.

Alright...